Your Room 😀 makes the deference

[changappa]

Hi every one. Just few things on your listening room. Distance between speakers minimum 8 feet. Listening distance 10 feet. Floor use a carpets. Windows use thicker screens. If false sealing try using sound proofs. Some standing waves and reflection will be taken care off. Use old school analog amplifier with manual control. Modern amps like Maranz, denon etc comes with remote. If your child drop the remote or your spouse sits on it while watching bigboss for hours together then you are in a catch 22 situation. If you get a spare remote you are the luckiest person otherwise your amp will become useless without remote so choose your amp intelligently . Back to the point. Your room plays major role like 50% in giving you the perfect sound. Also remember you can't keep your speakers in the center of the room in search of sweet point. . Last point. Don't waste money on cables. Those cables matter only in recording studios not in listening area. Again this post is not for audiophile.

 

[Kannan]

There is no concept of minimum distance between speakers and not always neccesary to close the windows. Depends on your room configuration

 

[alpha1]

The closer the speakers are to your ears the better and more purer the signal, therefore mandating minimum listening distance does not make sense (unless you are talking about the baffle effect of speaker face and the tweeter woofer integration).

The wider apart the speakers are the better it is for stereo separation since we want as little of left speaker sound reaching right ear and vice versa in order to improve the stereo separation (might as well buy mono system if you don't care about this point).

Rest all points do make sense.

 

[IndianEars]

Hi every one. Just few things on your listening room. Distance between speakers minimum 8 feet. Listening distance 10 feet. Floor use a carpets. Windows use thicker screens. If false sealing try using sound proofs. Some standing waves and reflection will be taken care off. Use old school analog amplifier with manual control. Modern amps like Maranz, denon etc comes with remote. If your child drop the remote or your spouse sits on it while watching bigboss for hours together then you are in a catch 22 situation. If you get a spare remote you are the luckiest person otherwise your amp will become useless without remote so choose your amp intelligently . Back to the point. Your room plays major role like 50% in giving you the perfect sound. Also remember you can't keep your speakers in the center of the room in search of sweet point. . Last point. Don't waste money on cables. Those cables matter only in recording studios not in listening area. Again this post is not for audiophile.

Good thread started by you, changappa, and it includes some Great Points... Particularly that speaker placement & the room probably has the largest impact on any system's sound, yet is rarely addressed or even understood..

To add to / elaborate on what you have posted:

1. The minimum distance between the Speaker and the listener varies from speaker to speaker. It is the minimum distance where the sound of the multiple drivers (eg Tweeter, Mid-range & Woofer) will blend and be heard as coming form a single source. For smaller bookshelf speakers, this minimum distance will generally be smaller than for large floor standing speakers, where the drivers may be separate by 2 to 3 feet distance between the drivers.

Studio monitor speakers are often designed for up-close (Near Field) listening.

Yes, Near field listening does reduce room interactions influencing the sound to the listener.

 

[sound1]

The minimum distance between the Speaker and the listener varies from speaker to speaker. It is the minimum distance where the sound of the multiple drivers (eg Tweeter, Mid-range & Woofer) will blend and be heard as coming form a single source.

Excellent point. I read somehwere that the directivity of individual drivers matter a lot in this aspect to create that optimal frequency/phase response at a specific distance with a specific width. Not a lot different than than focul plane of a camera lens for a particular aperture, for example a macro lens can focus from very close distance till infinity. Also the focul plane is different depending upon whether a lens is telephoto, normal, wide, ultrawide or fisheye. Problem is there is no focusing mechanism, or interchangeable lenses for our audio systems YET (speakers/amps/DACS/DSPs).

 

[changappa]

The closer the speakers are to your ears the better and more purer the signal, therefore mandating minimum listening distance does not make sense (unless you are talking about the baffle effect of speaker face and the tweeter woofer integration).

The wider apart the speakers are the better it is for stereo separation since we want as little of left speaker sound reaching right ear and vice versa in order to improve the stereo separation (might as well buy mono system if you don't care about this point).

Rest all points do make sense.

Its purely stereo setup. Its quite necessary to have the minimum distance to feel the sound stage (hi fidelity ) effect. Otherwise you shall hear the sound from the pointed speaker.

 

[shibashis]

Don't waste money on cables.

Bold claim, I would be very cautious before making such an absolute statement.
Plus, when you post something at a forum named hifivision, you can not claim that the post is not for audiophiles.

 

[DB1989]

Its purely stereo setup. Its quite necessary to have the minimum distance to feel the sound stage (hi fidelity ) effect. Otherwise you shall hear the sound from the pointed speaker.

This claim may be a bit off the mark - or way off. I usually have my speakers positioned between 7-9 feet from my MLP and whenever the track demands it, I do manage to get a very wide soundstage that also wraps around the listener's ear i.e. sounds also appear to come right next to the ear akin to a far right/left surround speaker is in play.

In fact, I keep a center channel between my front L/R and two surround speakers on my far right/left to mess with people and have them guess where the sounds are emanating from . May i also add that i get pin point accuracy of imaging across the soundstage

 

[alpha1]

Its purely stereo setup. Its quite necessary to have the minimum distance to feel the sound stage (hi fidelity ) effect. Otherwise you shall hear the sound from the pointed speaker.

And that direct sound is the most neutral sound you can get, the way recording engineer intended you to listen - to get the best soundstage.
Otherwise, the longer the distance, the more you hear is mostly reflections from roof, wall, curtains, furniture, human beings and what not.
This is where the headphones, earphones, in-ear monitors destroy large speakers.

 

[alpha1]

This claim may be a bit off the mark - or way off. I usually have my speakers positioned between 7-9 feet from my MLP and whenever the track demands it, I do manage to get a very wide soundstage that also wraps around the listener's ear i.e. sounds also appear to come right next to the ear akin to a far right/left surround speaker is in play.

In fact, I keep a center channel between my front L/R and two surround speakers on my far right/left to mess with people and have them guess where the sounds are emanating from . May i also add that i get pin point accuracy of imaging across the soundstage

I am a bit curious to understand that. How is it possible in a stereo set-up since the sound from your right speaker also goes to left ear, and vice versa, sound from left speaker also goes to the right ear.
It is, physics wise, impossible to get a soundstage wider than the speaker placement.

 

[aeroash]

I am a bit curious to understand that. How is it possible in a stereo set-up since the sound from your right speaker also goes to left ear, and vice versa, sound from left speaker also goes to the right ear.
It is, physics wise, impossible to get a soundstage wider than the speaker placement.

Reflections create a wrap-around sound. It is room/placement/track-specific.

 

[IndianEars]

I am a bit curious to understand that. How is it possible in a stereo set-up since the sound from your right speaker also goes to left ear, and vice versa, sound from left speaker also goes to the right ear.
It is, physics wise, impossible to get a soundstage wider than the speaker placement.

Do keep in mind that the left microphone also receives sounds from sources close to the Right microphone.

Also the left microphone also receives sounds from it's far left.... ie the extreme left beyond the location of the left mic.

 

[DB1989]

I am a bit curious to understand that. How is it possible in a stereo set-up since the sound from your right speaker also goes to left ear, and vice versa, sound from left speaker also goes to the right ear.
It is, physics wise, impossible to get a soundstage wider than the speaker placement.

On occasion, Psychoacoustics has a hard time comprehending physics

Reflections create a wrap-around sound.

One of the reasons why I don't treat sidewalls (unless they're really close to the speaker) or keep it to a minimum.

The lack of reflections makes it difficult to convey a sense of space/atmosphere unless it's an Atmos track using at least 5 speakers or I upscale it to as many.

I'm building an HT room right now but not treating the sidewall/ backwall/ front wall as it is going to be mixed usage i.e. stereo + HT.

Specifically, I'm trying to keep the RT60 time not less than 0.4ms but not more than 0.6.

It is room/placement/track-specific.

@alpha1 - check out these two songs for the "track specific" part of sounds extending beyond your speakers:

"The Ballad of Bill Hubbard" by Roger Waters
"Ayala" by Mobitex

Depending on your room and placement, you'll hear it... or not

 

[alpha1]

Do keep in mind that the left microphone also receives sounds from sources close to the Right microphone.

Also the left microphone also receives sounds from it's far left.... ie the extreme left beyond the location of the left mic.

Which means all the more reason that the tracks will be pulled towards center, rather than staying outside the right and left speakers.

 

[IndianEars]

The speakers strive to reproduce what the microphones receive & record... That includes sounds n their locations beyond the 2 microphones....

 

[alpha1]

@alpha1 - check out these two songs for the "track specific" part of sounds extending beyond your speakers:

"The Ballad of Bill Hubbard" by Roger Waters
"Ayala" by Mobitex

Depending on your room and placement, you'll hear it... or not

The reason why I am skeptical is because I recently chanced upon Ambiophonics.

https://mathis-nitschke.com/en/ambiophonics-or-the-art-of-increasing-the-stereo-width/

http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Public/Presentations/ambiophonics.pdf

And its only when I implemented it I realized that sound can actually come wider than the speaker setup. But as I mentioned, this was only after the DSP that removes the cross-channel signals (right speaker going to left ear and left speaker going to right ear). Since any kind of cross-channel signal will only tend to bunch the stereo perception towards the center.

Let me try your tracks on regular stereo as well as Ambiophonic setup.

 

[alpha1]

The speakers strive to reproduce what the microphones receive & record... That includes sounds n their locations beyond the 2 microphones....

Yes, but whatever you speak about stereo micing only makes sense when during reproduction left channel goes to left ear and right channel goes to right ear - in other words like a headphone/earphone.
So, first there is a cross channel bleeding at sound reprodcution stage that brings the sound image to center
Second, the microhones themselves may not be directional enough and left mic captures right sounds, and vice versa - thus smearing the spatial clues and bringing the sound again closer to center.

 

[IndianEars]

Getting stereo sound beyond the left and right speakers requires a very good room-speaker setup.

A first step in this is that both speakers need to 'dissapear'

Speaker position shifts of millimetres will make a difference

 

[ajuvignesh]

In traditional recording of popular songs, no stereo recording is used. Only mono. Later during mixing stage effects are added in.
Yes, sound goes beyond the speaker even without dsp. All has to do with the psychoacoustics. Even in fully treated room this happens. Even if only left speaker play it still happens.

 

[IndianEars]

In traditional recording of popular songs, no stereo recording is used. Only mono. Later during mixing stage effects are added in.

I strongly disagree.
2 separate channels, left n right are recorded for a stero recording.