Active Speaker: Manger MSM C1

[sonosphere]

Hi everybody,
I've had an opportunity recently to audition a bookshelf speaker, that was supposed be very different than regular cone-diaphragm ones. The audition compelled me to write a "mini review" on this speaker. So here it goes...

It's name, Manger (Model: MSM C1), didn't strike a bell, but the reference coming from Amit (Executive from M/s AV Xellence) got me immediately interested. I know Amit too well to know that he wouldn't praise a speaker purely as marketing hype. BTW this is a Active Speaker, so you don't need a power-amp to drive it.

Technology: This is what sets it apart from regular cone diaphragm speakers, BUT I'll skip this part deliberately because in the end it's the sound that matters, I don't want description of gee-whiz technology to take anything away from the essence of music. For same reason I didn't ask the price, as I wanted to focus on performance. You'll find VERY interesting details about this technology on google. Just enter "Manger speakers" in google. So moving on to audition impressions...

Audition impressions:

DYNAMICS: I started with my Dynnamic-test favorite "Hey you" from Pink floyd (PF). The intro having plucked strings immediately put this guy on my "Top" category. The details /soundstage /tonal balance ... all 5 stars. And when the drums came slamming, I was a little underwhelmed. To my ears the slam went as low as 250 Hz and then got damped sharply in the lower end. It soon dawned on me that I've heard very similar spectrum in almost all "Studio Monitors" (JBL model??, Tannoy Reveal, and recently the Genelec 8040A). I couldn't hear as much drama in bottom-end as was in the top-end.

SONIC DETAILS: I went on to listen, "Comfortably numb" (PF), Tum ho (singer: Mohit, Movie: Rockstar), Diana Krall (forgot the song ). Soon I got the general impression on the SQ. This speaker is "DETAILED" with transparency... far more than my personal "topper" till date... the Monitor Audio GS10. I heard so much more of orchestra, yet I could hear thru each instrument-layer very clearly. Recording quality also matters, as I realised in some "run of the mill" recordings.

IMAGING: A demo CD having atmospheric fx similar to "night-time horror flicks" practically got me spooked. the fx soundstage was all AROUND me, not just the front zone. If this would have been a blind-folded audition, I could have sworn that I was listening to a 5.1 surround system. On regular songs I found the spatial separation to be quite good though not leagues ahead from my earlier "topper", the Monitor Audio GS10.

SPEED: Most good speakers get the main-body of sound right, better ones get the reverb-tail right, and only the best ones get the "attack" transients right. And this guy did it more right, (again) than any other I've heard. My previous topper here was the Adam A7. I thought Adam's couldn't be dramatically improved... but this guy did (EXCEPT... surprise... the Bass part. Actually by now I am questioning my preferences in bass-dept... more on this later).

TONAL BALANCE: Actually this is what I look for in a system, as 1st priority, but I kept it for last. For a bass-inclined noob barely out of Wharfedale/Norge exposure this speaker sounded more "Forward" than the already "Forward" SQ that I've noticed in Studio monitors. But I was foxed to realize that despite this double-dose of "forward" character it is not one bit fatiguing The guitars sounded like real guitars and voices as warm as best paper-cone variety. Why?

A little introspection told me why >> Do the treble end strings on an acoustic guitar sound fatiguing to you ?... NO... Does a one hour unplugged Acoustic guitar performance sound fatiguing to you (despite having no bass?)... NO. Well, thats why. That's what this speaker does. Leaving the below 250 Hz spectrum approx, it reproduced sound as real as it gets... Details + Speed + dynamics + Tonal balance... everything that contributes to a realistic picture.

I was suspecting the Cyruz CDP not delivering heft to this speaker, so temporarily changed source to Arcam R-DAC (Considering Arcam bass is always meaty). But no bass-improvement! It stayed as lean as the Cyrus.

Backend electronics:
Source: Cyrus CDP (with upgrade card)
Pre amp: GamuT C2R
Power amp: Not applicable > These are active speakers.

Parting remarks:
Now only one aspect prevented me from getting hysterical about this speaker, in fact this aspect had me questioning my bass perception-standards. The designer of this speaker (this also includes the design of amp inside) obviously knows his stuff, as is evident from the results... then how come the bass doesn't sound like all the "good bass" I've heard so far? I am talking about bass of Emerald Physics CS3 (this speaker showed me what "open sound" means and what "boxy sound" the traditional speakers give) Another one is Amphion Argon 3L. These speakers are by no means "Trick-bass" speakers that exaggerate bass.

I've heard tabla in intimate "baithak" kind of performances, that are performed in 14 feet x 20 feet drawing rooms. So I KNOW the un-adultrated /un-miked sound of tabla... which includes the bass-"thump" that's not bloated-bass but definately has "heft" in it. This speaker did Tabla exceptionally well, but lost heft somewhere below 250 Hz, compared to the sound imprinted on my mind from those baithaks. But I am somehow questioning my bass-perception, rather than the design of this speaker.

I am ending this "audition-impressions" with a question for fellow members. Try to remember the rock-concerts you've been to. Have you ever come back thinking that the bass was lean? (I didn't for sure, when I heard Deep Purple live in New Delhi) Then why does the bass sound lean when you hear a live rock album on speakers categorized as "Studio Monitors" having flat /uncolored response?

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[denom]

Sonos,

Thanks for the review, wonder why you did not write a similar review post the Genelec meet???

Also, you should have asked the price of the Mangers. It would have been interesting to know what 1 has to pay to get this kind of performance, unless you want them to be only for reference & never to be actually purchased rather cannot purchase due to their unaffordable price

 

[Flash]

Sonos,

Not seen you active on the forum since quite some time.

Lovely review.

I would like to share a few notes.

Lets use 2 way bookshelves and Active monitors as a source of comparison

With most consumer speakers, companies have designed passive loudspeakers keeping the broader spectrum of music that may be played through them. Once of the few things that consumers look at is bass response / midrange and considering that at any given time we may listen to different genres of music from classical to rock to pop to probably even bhangra, Rap etc.
Bass freq and midrange and specifically db output is given a lot of priority in the decision making process
Trying to offer a flat fq reponse would sound too clinical or dry to most ears except for us audiophiles.
Even with amps, the same factor comes into play. have a neutral amp would often be described as dry/ clinical or uninviting.

With most passive speakers I have noticed that it is the ports that are instrumental for the added bass response and lack of transient speed and attack. The port tuning is usually tuned a octave or two below the bass drivers fq response to augment the bass.

I have been playing around with several bookshelf designs.
I used a similar driver in a ported box tuned to a lower fq as well as a sealed box.
In a sealed box the enclosure used the air pressure inside to limit the excursion and the driver acts as a coil string. This improves the attack, speed and transient response. They have a flatter roll off in the lower fq
However what is missed is low bass extension.

The ported box architecture faces some serious decay in transient response and the driver offloads or bottoms out below the tuning freq.
But what you get is batter bass due to the additional air being transmitted from the port. However there is a possibility of the driver bottoming out
Transmission line speakers if designed well are very good however would not want to get there

I am not saying that Ported boxes as bad. However they need to be designed well.

Sealed passive speakers are IMO much better and more accurate, However not many available in the consumer market due to the reasons mentioned above.

The same holds true even for subwoofers. As discussed a million times before the general rule is a Sealed subwoofer is better at music and ported for movies. Primary due to the reasons mentioned above. A sealed subwoofer will sacrifice output for accuracy and speed

Active speakers however are built very differently with a completely different market segment in mind. Their role is to be accurate.
However a lot of active speakers do have ports. Their ports are not designed in the same way as consumer speakers.
Their inbuilt amps are also designed to be clinical in their approach.

If we look at most Active monitors. for example
Genelic 803A. has a fq response of 58 Hz - 20 kHz ( 2 dB). your Wharfedale or my B&W's both have a bettter fq response in the lower end of the spectrum purely due to the much lower port tuning.
What we as consumers lose out on is Accuracy.

But most ears prefer the added bass and probably wont even notice the lack of speed / attack and bloated fq whether it is the midrange , treble or bass

DISCLAIMER APPLY

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Denom,
See my response in blue text below.

Sonos,

Thanks for the review, wonder why you did not write a similar review post the Genelec meet???
During the Genelec demo, since the auditions started at the end of workshop there was little time to do a relaxed demo. It was getting late, so I had to rush back. During the auditions I observed some points that I couldn't re-confirm by doing extended audition, so I refrained from commenting. Overall I liked the Genelec 8040A.

Also, you should have asked the price of the Mangers.
I "believe" If one knows price of a speaker in advance, it can influence the observation. For e.g a budget level spkr giving "fairly decent" result would sound like "awesome" since your brain likes it's wallet-friendly aspect, and it can influence your heart to conclude that the speaker is better that it really is. You can see this happening in gushing web-reviews of components that get "Giant Slayer" tag. (vice versa happens too)

Ever since I noted the above to be applicable to me, I don't query for price of component before I audition it. Considering your curiosity, I'll ask Amit reg price and reply soon.

Regds

 

[marsilians]

Nice review Sonos. One of the common reasons for getting lean bass from an active speaker compared to passive ones is the quality factor (commonly called Q factor) of the speaker. Check with the manufacturer which driver he/she is using and check any online DB fro the Q factor. Its derived through a mathematical formula but most online guides provide this for well known driver types.

 

[captrajesh]

Sorry for the OT.

@Flash, since you have dabbled quite a bit on designing speakers with and without port using same drivers, I'd be glad to have your views on this post taking into account the info in the links provided thereat.

 

[reignofchaos]

Excellent review! My only experience with Manger is the Zerobox and while it is very very detailed, I found something fundamentally wrong with the way it sounded - it was dry and artificial - not how real music sounds like. Maybe it was the setup, maybe it was the speaker, can't really say. This speaker seems to have the same star shaped driver as the zerobox.

 

[Kannan]

According to the price on the company's website, the pricing for this model is 8600pounds per pair without stands which roughly translates to Rs. 672000 per pair.....

 

[Flash]

According to the price on the company's website, the pricing for this model is 8600pounds per pair without stands which roughly translates to Rs. 672000 per pair.....

Ouch... That hurts...
It's out of reach for most of us.
But then again all good things in life comes at a price

 

[sonosphere]

Hi ROC,
Would you remember what was the electronics at back-end of Zerobox?

BTW what would be your response to my question at the end of review >> reg lean bass from "Studio Monitors"?

Thanks,
Sonosphere

Excellent review! My only experience with Manger is the Zerobox and while it is very very detailed, I found something fundamentally wrong with the way it sounded - it was dry and artificial - not how real music sounds like. Maybe it was the setup, maybe it was the speaker, can't really say. This speaker seems to have the same star shaped driver as the zerobox.

 

[square_wave]

Been following this brand for many years now. They make one of the most technologically advanced transducers in the world.

The dryness and thinness are mostly due to two things. These speakers do not have a mid bass hump which is designed into most bookshelf speakers. So that warmth you get to hear with such speakers is absent.. If the source gear is not upto the mark, the faults will get highlighted by these extremely transparent speakers.

I know an early adopter from Mumbai (the passive version). Hard core audiophile who tried to make these speakers work for him. These speakers are ruthlessly revealing of the source equipment and amplification. According to him, he was able to do wonders with them but truth to be told, they are extremely neutral speakers and do not expect any additional colors which one may be used to with other speakers. With the right kind of ancillary gear, they completely disappear leaving the musicians in the room. It needs to be fed with a very high quality source and amplification.

But the sound may not be to everyones taste. There is a cult following for these speakers though in Europe.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Lean Bass on "Hey you" is a issue. Either it is the speaker or the room. I dont know which.

Nevertheless, the speakers you heard are known for their midrange and HF and I should say you are lucky to have got a taste of it:licklips:

 

[sonosphere]

Lean Bass on "Hey you" is a issue. Either it is the speaker or the room. I dont know which.
....

I had auditioned the Amphion Argaon 3L speakers in the same showroom. The bass I heard on these was one of the best in my experience. So I don't think room is the culprit.

I believe the designer is aware of the home-audio bass-requirements (this speaker has "studio" type voicing) and that's the reason they have optional "MSM c1 Dockable bass module"(Manger Audio - The Swing)

Regds,

 

[bhagwan]

According to the price on the company's website, the pricing for this model is 8600pounds per pair without stands which roughly translates to Rs. 672000 per pair.....

Manger Audio - The Swing

The Price is mentioned here;

I have never heard this speaker in India - but I did listen to it in Germany.

I will try and load a pic of what I heard. It was through an Antelope Audio DAC - Computer Source.
Not an ideal listening environment - but a nice product.

I am not so sure if this speaker sells @ Rs. 700/- K in India.
It may be 'much' more - closer to 850/-K if I am not mistaken.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[bhagwan]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Another Pic.

I too look forward to listen to this speaker in Mumbai. 1 month more - it seems.
I am sure they will be set up soon.
Once I do, I too will write about my experience.

 

[sonosphere]

....

I have never heard this speaker in India - but I did listen to it in Germany.

[/URL]

Hi,
What were your initial impressions of this speaker back then?

Regds,

 

[bhagwan]

Hi,
What were your initial impressions of this speaker back then?

Regds,

It was really near field - 3 to 4 feet.
In a Show - Ground Floor - lots of noise etc.
All said, Srajan & me were in the same room at the same time.

I liked what I heard.
My only reservation is & was the price.
Good Product - Expensive.

Not sure if I can justify the price.
I liked Strauss Acoustics from Switzerland 'more' !!

:sad:

 

[Flash]

The price quoted in India is Rs 1.3 million

 

[bhagwan]

The price quoted in India is Rs 1.3 million

7 Lacs or 13 Lacs ?
The price in UK is 7 Lacs - Approx - I think !
Did you call / mail the dealer for a quote ?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Shockingly expensive --- anywhere!

Sonosphere, as you were not satisfied with the low end, did you attempt any twiddling of the eq settings on the back?