A discussion about crappy DVD players as CD players

[Analogous]

Saw this random post online and thought to mysel:
1. I don’t really know what the waveforms mean.
2. I ripped all my CDs to my media server storage so don’t need a CDP
3. Got rid of my CDP and am left with a Blu-ray player that can play CDs too and has a digital output that connects to a external DAC

So, the questions are:
What’s the big fuss with high end CD players? Is it about exotic mechanical design that moves faster than the speed of lasers? Or it’s more about the DAC inside?
Can a cheap DVD player with digital output to a good DAC be as good/ better than a expensive, CD player in terms of Audio quality?

 

[reignofchaos]

I have experimented with both dvd and bluray players to an outboard dac before. The answer is nope - they sound pathetic primarily because of poor quality switching power supplies that inject back noise into the socket which then is picked up by other devices.

If you want to spin discs, get a proper cd transport with a linear power supply.

 

[mbhangui]

The above study looks totally flawed. The output level are not matched. The DVD player is playing at loud levels. Also the waveform is clipped above a particular level which will severely degrade the performance of the DVD player.

 

[Analogous]

I guess that answers my questions…. Almost. Except that the Blu ray player with the external DAC sounds fantastic it’s possible that the SQ will improve with a LPS, but it has no provision for this

 

[Naturelover]

A few old DVD playes have been praised on the forum for their CD playback.
There were a couple of Sony models which has gotten universal praise.
A long way back I was using a Marantz DV4001 which had excellent CD playback.

 

[Kannan]

I guess that answers my questions…. Almost. Except that the Blu ray player with the external DAC sounds fantastic it’s possible that the SQ will improve with a LPS, but it has no provision for this

When you use the optical output, the possibility of interference, noise is eliminated. However there are more important factors than just the power supply like CD mechanism quality, the overall mount, reduction is vibration etc as CD playback is a delicate combination of mechanical (the mechanism) and electrical engineering (laser). During the heyday of the CD players, Philips had built some rugged CD mechanisms that were incorporated in expensive CD players of its time.
Another factor, the details of which I don't recall, is the wavelength incorporated in CD players which is different that in DVD and BLuray players. This is especially important with CDs where music data has been pressed and not written using a CD/DVD writer. The retrival from pressed CDs are supposed to be more accurate off a CD player, how much that translates into audible differences I don't know.

 

[sandeepmohan]

I have not tested this.
There are some exceptions to disc spinners where you may get by.
A fine example is the Sony UBP-X800 (No longer sold). Is supposed to work very well as a transport. Is not bad either if we were to play straight out of it. Just not in the league of a high end CD transport. However, will work perfectly when paired with an external DAC.

I do have a Sony UBP-X700. Great spinner for uhd video. Fails miserably for audio playback.

 

[Analogous]

Mine is the UHD X700 feeding the Holo Cyan2

 

[mbhangui]

When you use the optical output, the possibility of interference, noise is eliminated. However there are more important factors than just the power supply like CD mechanism quality, the overall mount, reduction is vibration etc as CD playback is a delicate combination of mechanical (the mechanism) and electrical engineering (laser). During the heyday of the CD players, Philips had built some rugged CD mechanisms that were incorporated in expensive CD players of its time.
Another factor, the details of which I don't recall, is the wavelength incorporated in CD players which is different that in DVD and BLuray players. This is especially important with CDs where music data has been pressed and not written using a CD/DVD writer. The retrival from pressed CDs are supposed to be more accurate off a CD player, how much that translates into audible differences I don't know.

The effect of transport is minimized or eliminated. The exact readout rate from the disc is unimportant since every CD player/transport necessarily buffers the data and sends to the DAC/output under the control of a crystal oscillator. The rotation of the disc is controlled such that the average data rate into the decoding stage is within the bounds set by the buffer. The quality theoretically should depend on the DAC. So If you have a good DAC use the SPDIF out.

CD players buffer the audio data before sending it out via SPDIF (S/PDIF). This is because the CD player's read-out rate from the disc is variable, while the SPDIF output is driven by a crystal oscillator, which maintains a stable, constant clock rate. The buffer ensures a consistent data stream is sent out, regardless of the disc's fluctuating read-out rate.

Here's why buffering is important:

• Synchronization:
  The SPDIF interface requires a stable clock signal to transmit the audio data. The CD player's internal clock may not be perfectly synchronized with the read-out rate of the disc, so a buffer helps to smooth out any fluctuations and provide a consistent clock signal to the SPDIF output.
  
  
• Error Correction:
  The buffer also helps with error correction. If there are any errors in the disc's data, the buffer can store the data and then retransmit it, ensuring a clean digital signal is sent out via SPDIF.
  
  
• Clocking:
  Good CD player designs can use an accurate external clock source for the SPDIF output, further improving the quality and stability of the digital audio signal

 

[Analogous]

The effect of transport is minimized or eliminated. The exact readout rate from the disc is unimportant since every CD player/transport necessarily buffers the data and sends to the DAC/output under the control of a crystal oscillator. The rotation of the disc is controlled such that the average data rate into the decoding stage is within the bounds set by the buffer. The quality theoretically should depend on the DAC. So If you have a good DAC use the SPDIF out.

CD players buffer the audio data before sending it out via SPDIF (S/PDIF). This is because the CD player's read-out rate from the disc is variable, while the SPDIF output is driven by a crystal oscillator, which maintains a stable, constant clock rate. The buffer ensures a consistent data stream is sent out, regardless of the disc's fluctuating read-out rate.

Here's why buffering is important:

• Synchronization:
  The SPDIF interface requires a stable clock signal to transmit the audio data. The CD player's internal clock may not be perfectly synchronized with the read-out rate of the disc, so a buffer helps to smooth out any fluctuations and provide a consistent clock signal to the SPDIF output.
  
  
• Error Correction:
  The buffer also helps with error correction. If there are any errors in the disc's data, the buffer can store the data and then retransmit it, ensuring a clean digital signal is sent out via SPDIF.
  
  
• Clocking:
  Good CD player designs can use an accurate external clock source for the SPDIF output, further improving the quality and stability of the digital audio signal

Who doesn’t love science and facts that can be checked and verified !
But just to be clear the above applies only to SPDIF pathway. What about others?

 

[mbhangui]

Who doesn’t love science and facts that can be checked and verified !

In matters of faith and science, faith quite often triumps. Who doesn't love science? The guy who purchased a high-end audiophile grade cd player instead of using a DVD player connected to a good existing dac

 

[spirovious]

A long way back I was using a Marantz DV4001 which had excellent CD playback

Add oppo, cambridge audio. Pioneer 610 would play SACDs too

 

[mbhangui]

I have the Marantz CD6000 OSE (Original Signature Edition) - which uses a Philips mechanism, Jupiter Rega CD player which uses a Sony mechanism and LG BD drive on my HTPC and a Cheap Sony DVD player (which I got for Rs 4000 new). All sound exactly the same using an external DAC.

 

[reignofchaos]

I have the Marantz CD6000 OSE (Original Signature Edition) - which uses a Philips mechanism, Jupiter Rega CD player which uses a Sony mechanism and LG BD drive on my HTPC and a Cheap Sony DVD player (which I got for Rs 4000 new). All sound exactly the same using an external DAC.

Bottleneck is the DAC in that case.

 

[Analogous]

I have the Marantz CD6000 OSE (Original Signature Edition) - which uses a Philips mechanism, Jupiter Rega CD player which uses a Sony mechanism and LG BD drive on my HTPC and a Sony DVD player. All sound exactly the same using an external DAC.

Wow! Now that’s a significant revelation even as we consider any differences between these transports, if they exist are too small for an experienced audiophile to detect.

Bottleneck is the DAC in that case.

So the mechanical transport does not make any serious difference WRT SQ ? (Not referring to cosmetics, smooth mechanics, interface and reliability…)

The generative AI answer seems to imply this:
An exceptional CD player combines high-quality components like advanced DACs, robust servo systems, and high-end audio components, along with features like SACD support, digital outputs, and potentially even streaming capabilities. Beyond just playing CDs, these players often offer extended format support and strive for a more refined and detailed sound reproduction.

Here's a more detailed breakdown of what makes a CD player exceptional:

1. Superior Audio Quality:

• High-Quality DACs (Digital-to-Analog Converters):
  A good DAC is crucial for converting the digital audio data on the CD into a listenable analog signal. Higher-end players often utilize more advanced DAC chips and circuitry, which can result in a cleaner, more detailed sound.
  
  
• Robust Servo Systems:
  The servo system controls the laser, spindle motor, and other mechanical parts of the CD player. A well-designed servo system ensures accurate CD reading and reduces noise and vibrations.
  
  
• High-End Audio Components:
  Using quality components throughout the player, including capacitors and resistors, can contribute to better sound quality.
  

2. Extended Format Support:

• SACD (Super Audio CD) Playback:
  Some high-end CD players are designed to play SACDs, which offer a higher sample rate and bit depth than standard CDs, resulting in a more detailed and dynamic sound.
• CD-R/RW and MP3/WMA Support:
  Many CD players can read and play CD-R and CD-RW discs, as well as MP3 and WMA files from CD-Rs.
• USB Input:
  Some CD players offer a USB input for playing high-resolution digital audio files directly from a USB drive.
  

3. Additional Features:

• Digital Outputs:
  Some players offer digital outputs (optical or coaxial) that allow you to connect the player directly to a DAC or other digital audio equipment, bypassing the player's internal DAC.
• Advanced Processing:
  Some players incorporate features like oversampling, interpolation, and noise shaping to further enhance sound quality.
• Convenience Features:
  Features like random play, repeat, and direct track access can improve the user experience.
  

4. Emphasis on Sound Quality:

• Precise and Clean Sound: Exceptional CD players are known for their precise, clean, and dynamic sound reproduction.
  
  
• Focus on Musicality: Some high-end players are designed to emphasize musicality and natural sound reproduction.
  
  
• Enhanced Stereo Imaging: High-end players often deliver focused and expansive stereo imaging.
  

In essence, an exceptional CD player is more than just a disc player; it's a carefully engineered audio component that prioritizes sound quality, format versatility, and a refined listening experience

 

[mbhangui]

Bottleneck is the DAC in that case.

Bottleneck is absence of placebo, not the dac.

 

[Analogous]

Bottleneck is absence of placebo, not the dac.

Your experience using all the transports was with the same DAC @mbhangui ?

 

[reignofchaos]

Bottleneck is absence of placebo, not the dac.

No the problem is in not keeping an open mind and assuming things based on cheap components that are bottlenecked.

 

[Analogous]

So now we have two polarised opinions. What happens next? How do we proceed from here?

 

[Kannan]

So now we have two polarised opinions. What happens next? How do we proceed from here?

Buy a cheap one and an expensive one. If sound similar sell the expensive one. If differences are appreciable, then still keep both.