amp upgrade

[gianni78]

Hi everyone,

A few years ago I bought a Naim Nait 5 on ebay and I'm hating the sound (cold, harsh and very tiring). After 10-15 min i find it nerve wracking and i have to either shut down the music or turn it down massively. Perhaps it's faulty or maybe I'm crazy but i put back my old Technics A600 Mk2 and it sounds a lot warmer and more pleasent. The rest of the system is kef 102/2, Denon DCD-635, Imac through motu interface. My bedroom is about 4,20m x 3.50m and i listen to jazz, classical, 60s and 70s, funk and soul. What amp should I buy? Second hand only please. A friend of mine suggested me a NAD C370. Would that be good enough? Also any suggestion about a budget second hand turntaple? Thanks a lot

Gianni

 

[krell]

i think you may require a warm amplifier.look no further than a vintage integrated amp.
like Sansui (AU717) or pioneer(SA7800-9800),you will definitely likes the warm vintage sound.

 

[asliarun]

Have you considered changing your DAC? If nothing else, it is a much cheaper upgrade.

 

[dheerajin]

You are living in heaven(UK) as far as amplifier brands are concerned.
See if you can get used gryphone amps, nothing beats class-A amplifier when tonality is in question.

Hi everyone,

A few years ago I bought a Naim Nait 5 on ebay and I'm hating the sound (cold, harsh and very tiring). After 10-15 min i find it nerve wracking and i have to either shut down the music or turn it down massively. Perhaps it's faulty or maybe I'm crazy but i put back my old Technics A600 Mk2 and it sounds a lot warmer and more pleasent. The rest of the system is kef 102/2, Denon DCD-635, Imac through motu interface. My bedroom is about 4,20m x 3.50m and i listen to jazz, classical, 60s and 70s, funk and soul. What amp should I buy? Second hand only please. A friend of mine suggested me a NAD C370. Would that be good enough? Also any suggestion about a budget second hand turntaple? Thanks a lot

Gianni

 

[Fantastic]

Most Rotels and NAD's are very good. If you want it slightly warmer than you have then just add a simple single stage tube preamp. They have fairly high second harmonic distortion which will give you the warmer sound.
ClassA isn't worth it for the amount of idling power they consume.

In today's world a small class D ( USD50/- ) with a tube input preamp ( low cost Ebay kit might do ) would work very well. I bought a SMSL classD power amp recently ( 50 watts ... $ 50 ) on Ebay. Sounds great. I'm going to add a tube input to it. Even by itself the SMSL is great. I have several other amps including a Creek 5350SE. But I listen most often to the small SMSL !! Slightly deficient in some areas compared to the bigger amps but so good by itself that it's fine to listen to. Adding the tube stage would be interesting. Might get it done later this week.

 

[Sunderpalanivel]

Hi everyone,

A few years ago I bought a Naim Nait 5 on ebay and I'm hating the sound (cold, harsh and very tiring). After 10-15 min i find it nerve wracking and i have to either shut down the music or turn it down massively.
Gianni

Im really shocked to hear this, I had a 5i and it sounded warm, I could listen for hours together , I had an opportunity to listen Nait 5 and it was much warmer than 5i itself. There must be something else going wrong in the rig. IMHO . May be the speakers are not a good match for Nait 5.

 

[Naturelover]

Maybe you could go and listen to the same amp at a dealer? Check your amp at a friend's place or if you are on any UK based forum, you could request to check your amp at another member's home. Preferably someone who has the same model. Have you posted on Naim forum?

 

[rikhav]

You can even try Arcam amps

Very good tonality although they cant drive difficult load speakers which I don't think the KEF you own is.
But better to take suggestions from experts

As suggested by others since you are in UK, you have tons of options to choose from

 

[gianni78]

Have you considered changing your DAC? If nothing else, it is a much cheaper upgrade.

Sorry about my ignorance. What do you mean by changing my DAC? I'd still need to upgrade the amp though cause my technics hasn't got enough watts i've been told

 

[gianni78]

i think you may require a warm amplifier.look no further than a vintage integrated amp.
like Sansui (AU717) or pioneer(SA7800-9800),you will definitely likes the warm vintage sound.

here's what I found on ebay:
Vintage Sansui AU-717 Integrated Stereo Amplifier , Worldwide shipping ! | eBay

Pioneer Sa 7800 Vintage Amplifier In A1 Condition | eBay
any good? I was wondering if those old amps will be in good working order and if i need to spend money on servicing. If anything goes wrong is it easy to find places to get them fix? is it expensive? thanks

 

[gianni78]

Most Rotels and NAD's are very good. If you want it slightly warmer than you have then just add a simple single stage tube preamp. They have fairly high second harmonic distortion which will give you the warmer sound.
ClassA isn't worth it for the amount of idling power they consume.

In today's world a small class D ( USD50/- ) with a tube input preamp ( low cost Ebay kit might do ) would work very well. I bought a SMSL classD power amp recently ( 50 watts ... $ 50 ) on Ebay. Sounds great. I'm going to add a tube input to it. Even by itself the SMSL is great. I have several other amps including a Creek 5350SE. But I listen most often to the small SMSL !! Slightly deficient in some areas compared to the bigger amps but so good by itself that it's fine to listen to. Adding the tube stage would be interesting. Might get it done later this week.

what does single stage mean? If I buy the and C370 what would be a good tube pre amp to match it with, available in uk? how would that combo be compared to a vintage sansui or pioneer? By the way I don't know anything about tubes. DO they require maintenance? I'm useless with DIY and stuff

 

[TheDG]

If you want it slightly warmer than you have then just add a simple single stage tube preamp. They have fairly high second harmonic distortion which will give you the warmer sound.

In today's world a small class D ( USD50/- ) with a tube input preamp ( low cost Ebay kit might do ) would work very well

This definitely sounds like something I could be interested in. I recently bought a Yam AS500 and returned it because it sounded sterile and hollow (albeit with nice top end definition). I swapped it for a CA 651 which is better but still not what my ears are looking for.
I'm comparing the new amps to my crappy old AV amp and I did an interesting test, I found a utube subwoofer test video where the tone steps down in 5hz increments.
With my old amp I still get a really nice tone at 35 and even 30hz even though my speakers are only rated down to 40hz (-3db) the tone is thick and heavy and the new amps lacked that.
My theory was that the new amps lacked harmonic distortion and no amp I bought would match the tone my ears had grown accustomed to.

This valve preamp idea fits right into that concept and certainly seems worth a shot for 30. My only concern is that I'm going to lose a bit of that high end clarity.
Would something like this be ok?
BK 6J1 x2 HiFi tube valve Preamp Preamplifier amplifier incl transf 110V/220V UK | eBay

 

[gianni78]

i think you may require a warm amplifier.look no further than a vintage integrated amp.
like Sansui (AU717) or pioneer(SA7800-9800),you will definitely likes the warm vintage sound.

Thanks Krell. I Found these:
Vintage Sansui AU-717 Integrated Stereo Amplifier , Worldwide shipping ! | eBay
Pioneer Sa 7800 Vintage Amplifier In A1 Condition | eBay
Sansui AU-999 Amplifier | eBay
any good? My only concern about buy buying vintage stuff is wether these amps need or might need in the near future any work. Are there places the can service them, are the parts still available, would it be expensive etc. What do you think?

 

[Fantastic]

..........down to 40hz (-3db) the tone is thick and heavy and the new amps lacked that.
My theory was that the new amps lacked harmonic distortion and no amp I bought would match the tone my ears had grown accustomed to.

This valve preamp idea fits right into that concept and certainly seems worth a shot for 30. My only concern is that I'm going to lose a bit of that high end clarity.
Would something like this be ok?
BK 6J1 x2 HiFi tube valve Preamp Preamplifier amplifier incl transf 110V/220V UK | eBay

1. I don't know if your old amp has tone controls. It might just be boosting bass. If not, the newer amps are not flat down to 30 Hz and lower. But remember that two different amps with flat response from 10Hz to 20 Khz could sound quite different ! Also one amp could have apparently more extended bass. A good example is the Bryston 4B compared to other good amps!
2. Coming to valve amps. Not all sound the same and not all tubes sound alike. But they will give you more harmonic distortion content. If well designed you will have no loss of HF with tubes.
3. I said single stage tube preamp to ensure that it did not have any negative feedback which could reduce the harmonic distortion content ( and warmth!). But then not all two stage circuits use negative feedback !
4. Tube circuits using tubes that can work at low voltages ( 18 to 30 volts) are nice. But I have a bias for regular circuits that use tubes operating at much higher voltages like around 150 to 200 volts ( dc supply ). Do low voltage designs sound different ? You should try them out. I didn't do a side by side comparison.
5. Always better to have a closed box for your preamp. Dust is a killer and will accumulate fairly rapidly apart from " unwanted things" getting into the unit. However that doesn't affect the sound !

 

[mpw]

maybe you need to get the amp serviced by naim or / and try with the naca 5 cable.

you like in the UK... do give Naim a shout.. they are helpful folks i understand.

rgds

 

[mowgli80]

I heard the Naim in A/B with my Sugden Mystro and although the Naim sounded pretty good, I preferred the Sugden. Sugden is warm to neutral sounding and not as forward sounding as naim and was excellent for low volume listening. I think it might just suit your requirements.

 

[asliarun]

Sorry about my ignorance. What do you mean by changing my DAC? I'd still need to upgrade the amp though cause my technics hasn't got enough watts i've been told

The source of your music seems to be Denon DCD-635 - which means that the digital to analog audio conversion is being done by the inbuilt DAC of your CD player.

You already have a fairly capable amplifier. This led me to believe that your chain is being let down by the quality of d-a conversion.

Please note - I do not have personal experience with this CD player - so my suggestion is more generic in terms of how you could go about solving your problem.

We often overlook the DAC and it is important to note that it can change the musical flavor a great deal - especially since it is doing the D-A conversion on a really weak and fragile preamplified signal - and even minute changes or distortions will eventually get amplified (literally and figuratively).

Your CD player does have a digital out - which means you could feed the digital output of your CD player into a DAC, and feed the DAC output to your amplifier.

You can get decent quality DACs for as little as $200-$300 - so I thought you could consider this option first, especially as it is a significantly cheaper exercise than swapping amps.

 

[dheerajin]

+1 to asliarun..
while showing a demo of the amplifier , which is for sale , the buyer brought his sony CD player and the system sounded crap(very harsh). Same time when it is played thru my DAC , it was night and day difference and it was sounding amazing. In your case while retrieving the details from the source Naim must have produced all the frequency while your vintage amp being warm, was little
low in high frequency front.
So IMO fault is in your source. Get a better CD player or DAC on loan from a friend and check.

 

[arj]

you could check of the amp has been tampered with..but IMHO thats the best component in your system.
Maybe you should try out the amp with any other friends speaker (if it is a better speaker) before you make any changes. I do not know anything about the KEF 102

as said above when the quality of your system improves the hidden issues also come out..and in this case it could be the source

 

[jkarthik]

+1 for Sunderpalanivel