Arcam rDock with DAC

[blueturtle]

Someone please help explain if can I use the Audio Out from rDock and connect external DAC (say CA DacMagic or MF V-DAC) and then take the output from the external DAC to the Arcam Solo?

1. Will this set-up bypass the iPod's built-in DAC?
2. Considering the cost of external DAC, will resultant sound justify the investment?

Thank you for your usual wise guidance and valuable recommendation.

 

[venkatcr]

To do this the rDock needs to have a digital out, NOT an Audio Out. An Audio Out is analog.

I am not able to find out if the rDock does have a digital out.

Cheers

 

[blueturtle]

Thank you and that was a quick response.

Quite sure (may be wrong though) that the rDock does NOT have digital out.

In such a scenario, can someone please explain, what will be the difference in the resultant output by adding an external DAC to a signal that is already processed by the iPod's built in DAC? I mean is it worth the effort?

Thank you in advance for your valuable guidance.

 

[anm]

you can use onkyo dock that extracts digital signal out of ipod.

 

[blueturtle]

Thank you for the recommendation.

However, I'd have to sell the rDock that integrates seamlessly with the Solo. Or, end up having two docks, which looks like an uneconomical proposition.

Besides, I understand the Onkyo ND-S1 (that you refer I guess) does NOT support the iPhone whereas the rDock extracts Audio from my iPhone 3G.

Anyway, thank you, once again, for the kind thought.

I am seriously thinking of the Wadia i700 and either a V-DAC or DacMagic. I'll have to save hard as total cost works out to Saudi Riyals 4,000 plus (2000 for Wadia i700 as of 20 Apr 10 and another 2000 plus for DacMagic as of Dec 2009). Whereas, the iPod Classic 160GB was SR 1200 on 15 Dec 09.

 

[venkatcr]

Quite sure (may be wrong though) that the rDock does NOT have digital out.

In such a scenario, can someone please explain, what will be the difference in the resultant output by adding an external DAC to a signal that is already processed by the iPod's built in DAC? I mean is it worth the effort?

If the rDock does not have a Digital Out, you CANNOT connect a external DAC to it. Any DAC needs it's input to be digital. All you can do with the rDock ouput is amplify it.

A good DAC with Wadia dock is one of the best solutions available in the market.

Cheers

 

[gopi]

blue turtle,
venkat has already said the important thing. you need a wadia or a onkyo dock for digital out. but I have to say that the digital out is best when you are pairing with a very good dac. the ipod dac with that line out is a very decent one. I am sure you can put the wadia and a dacmagic or vdac. but then instead of adding more boxes I suggest the following:
1. Wadia dock + wadia's own powerdac mini - u get a very high quality dac and integerated amp. but then if this you go this route the assumption I made is that you would sell of your Arcam and or Nait. I am not sure how you are using your Arcam and Nait together. Is Arcam only a CD player for you. You can get rid of the integerated amp that you are using. One note of caution is that the Wadia has only digital in and no analogue in.
2. Stick with the Arcam rDock. But upgrade your speaker. If you are using Inifinity Primus, my guess is that with that Arcam CD + Naim XS you can do better than Inifinity. Put the cash in for a lovely upgrade of speaker.
just a few thoughts. I would just like to confuse people

 

[blueturtle]

Thank you Gopi.

I had considered the 151 PowerDac Mini with the 170i Transport but the 151 costs 2.5x of DacMagic (Saudi Riyals 5000 after special discount if purchased together with the 170iTransport for another 2000). Approx. Rs 80,000 seems like an incredibly expensive affair. The dealer also insisted on the SF Toy for Saudi Riyals 4600 to go with the Wadia gear. Now, this little system was already crossing 1.30 lakhs so I had to abandon the idea at the moment.

If budget permits may go for it ultimately someday. Meanwhile, I am looking for suitable alternatives.

Coming back to your first question, I use the Solo Music for CD, Tuner and rDock connectivity. Though it is an excellent "performer" in itself, I like the way Nait XS presents the music.

Yes, I also feel its a waste bypassing the Solo's Amp section so I am looking for something like the Wadia solution as I can then sell the Solo along with the rDock.

Hope this helps clarify. Oh yes, thank you again and look forward to see your valuable recommendation.

 

[blueturtle]

Oops, sorry forgot about the speaker upgrade path...

I have already posted at another thread requesting for help/guidance on suitable speaker setup. Sadly, that got posted in the INTRODUCTION thread.
Have to do better in learning how to post at the proper threads.

In case it helps, considering Neat Motive 2, SF Toy Towers, MA RX6 or Dali Ikon 7 - would appreciate your valuable input, please?

 

[gopi]

I understand it better now. If you are putting up Arcam for sale along with rDock then I think going for Onkyo is a better choice. The savings over Wadia will help you get a better DAC. Regarding DAC you have mentioned my choice would be MF V Dac. But in this formation you would completely miss out on the CD player and probably would use ipod as your only source. Given that you love the Naim sound, an alternate crazy approach to all this would be get the Naim Uniti (getting rid of your XS as well). One box solving it all. You would use n-Link (its analogue only at the moment). But I would expect Naim to get another dock with digital out soon. I know this idea is a bit crazy, but I just like them to be all in one box

 

[gopi]

Regarding the speakers I think the choices you have mentioned are all good ones. You need to make sure you audition them together with Naim before selecting them. I am sure many UK folks will vouch for Naim + Neat combination.

 

[blueturtle]

Thank you Gopi.

Uniti was my first choice. But, opinions from forums suggested avoiding "one box" approach. Realize now it was a bad move as the Uniti had everything (Tuner, CD, DAC etc.) I needed.

You see, music has always been an extreme passion and an expensive affair. In the last 4 years alone I owned a variety of Audio gear (Onkyo ==>HK ==>NAD ==>Arcam Solo ==>Naim Nait XS) hoping to find the right sound.

Would appreciate your thoughts on "pros & cons" of Uniti vs UnitiQute please?

Hi-end audio gear is difficult to find in Saudi but a dealer in Jeddah is willing to import Neat Motive 2 specially for me. However, many reviewers talk of a loud "thud" sound from the NM 2's woofer at loud volumes when using hi powered amps. Afraid, if it cud be the case with the NM2 and Nait XS as well?

 

[gopi]

I know that many people are against one box solutions. I would personally leave that for you to decide one box vs many. Regarding Uniti vs Uniti Qute , there are 2 main differences - 50W vs 30W and Qute doesn't have CD player. My take is that if you are going to pair it with a floor stander the extra power would be really needed.
Naim 60W being 100W is incorrect. Its rather Naim 60W is a more accurate representation while some other manufacturers who claim 60W is not entirely true. To understand this further you need to know that when we say 60W it is generally at an 8ohm load. Now, when it is stated that a speaker has 8ohm resistance, that is not entirely correct. It says that in general through out most of the frequency spectrum its 8ohms. What we need to know is how low it can dip. Some will be 6-8, while some can be 4-8 and some can even go down to 2. Ideally a 60W at 8ohms should be 120W at 4ohms. But for this to happen it would have to draw more current. This is where good amps differ from other. Naim doubles at 4ohms to 120 while a more common amp might be anywhere from 80-100. Worse, if it goes down to 2 ohms, it should be 240W and Naim does that usually, while others might not even be 120W. Thats why people say that Naim 60 is like 100.
Now, depending on the speaker 30W might be sufficient for a small room. However, its better to get that extra watts and there by you have more choice when you pick the speakers.
Regarding NM2 problem, I have read about that as well. Now, this seems to happen at a really high volumes. I would say that if you are using a 50W amp, you shouldn't mostly reach that level. But its just a guess. Also, note that not all had that issue.
But then I am confused on one thing. You want these speakers in Saudi or India. Because in other thread you talked about importing to India as well. I would recommend to seriously considering picking it locally in India if you want it here. There are plenty of options.
The other important thing is that you seem to have upgraded continuosly. So, I would strongly recommend against picking anything without hearing. You have to absolutely hear it and that too with the amp and speaker of your choice and then pick it up.
So, blindly importing a speaker would only lead to dissatisfaction.
Let us know what is that you can audition.

 

[blueturtle]

Thank you Gopi, HONESTLY, for your time and effort in explaining Amp terminology in real layman's terms. Surely, lots of folks will benefit from your explanation as well.

Sadly, only choice here is the NM2. Just found out that Naim dealer in Saudi has closed shop (he had nSat which I was seriously considering).

Will plan a drive to Jeddah with the Nait XS to audition the NM2 and share my experience here.

In December 2008 we visited Lakozy (saw NAD/PSB/Focal etc) but prices were way too high as compared to gulf. We also visited Boomerang and two other reasonably priced AV outlets in Juhu. Can't remember the name (Mr. Vaz?) but, the gentlemen at Boomerang was very knowledge and cooperative.

Traditional family visits and urgent commitments usually consume the short trips home. Plan to re-visit Boomerang and any other speciality AV outlets again this year.

Looking for a good Tuner and suitable FT to pair with Nait XS for our home in Goa. Thanks to Gopi's wise guidance, will source my reqmts locally (Bombay/Bangalore) accordingly. Any recommendations with dealer name/location will be sincerely appreciated.

 

[gopi]

A small confusion still. You would audition the NM2 in Jeddah with Nait XS and then pick it in India for using it in Goa. Am I right? Then tough news. I don't think Neat has any dealers in India. You cannot get it easily here. So, if you aer going to pick a floorstander in India then the choices you have changes. If you can grab those nSats do so, particularly if he is closing down then there should be a great deal. They are rated very well and they go along Naim obviously very well. You might need to add a subwoofer as well.
Since, you are requesting for tuner as well, let me go back to my earlier suggestion of Uniti - one box vs multiple. Now, theoretically its simple. Whatever comes in 5 different boxes can be put in one box. But its not as simple as that. The first thing that comes in the way is the current supply available. Instead of 5 different transformers you have 1 big one. Its tough to put a transformer 5 times the size of 1 in a box. Second, the space available in a single box is lesser, so that can compromise the choices of the components used. Also, you cannot charge the one box the cost of the sum of all 5 individual components. So, for cost cutting they might compromise a bit.
Now, this would mean that if you can don't mind 5 different boxes pick them over 1 box. It will also help you upgrading them. But, do not consider all one box as a waste. When a company like Naim makes a one box, they do make sure that the sound is not compromised, atleast not much. Going by the reviews people are not able to find much difference between Nait 5i and Uniti. They are pretty close. 5i is one step down from XS. So, probably you might not like Uniti as much as XS, not sure.
I would suggest that your Arcam can work very good as your CD player, tuner, ipod Dock as well. Pump in all the money in your speaker and get a wonderful pair and sound.
Not sure about any other tuners. Never looked for them

 

[blueturtle]

Thank you Gopi,

A small confusion still. You would audition the NM2 in Jeddah with Nait XS and then pick it in India for using it in Goa. Am I right?

Yes Gopi, that was the plan...

Then tough news. I don't think Neat has any dealers in India. You cannot get it easily here.

That's bad - so you recon pickin one up from here itself to be a good idea?

If you can grab those nSats do so, particularly if he is closing down then there should be a great deal.

Gosh, if I only knew it in time. The guys didn't give any impression of quittin when I last called them. Too bad and too late.

Another request: kindly recommend suitable FTs available in Bom/Ban please, just in case the NM2 deal does not go thru?