Audiophile Apple?

[Ashenden]

Apple makes some very good products, which last a really long time (at least the ones I have with me). But, I rarely see iOS devices being considered as an audiophile grade DAP/streamer.

Personally I prefer listening to music on portable gear, over dedicated stereo. I listen to a lot of Acoustic/Classical music and feel that headphones offer a higher degree of intimacy to the recording, conveying more details and overall emotion, compared to speakers. I'm currently using iPhone 6s (yes, can't think of a reason to upgrade to another phone without a headphone jack. I will keep using it till it dies/software support ends, whichever is earlier ) and iPad (2019 model), driving Sennheiser 380pro and Meze 99 headphones. At 54Ohm and 32Ohm respectively, these are very easy to drive from the 3.5mm headphone jack and hence I've never used an external DAC/Amp. I love how good these two sounds, especially the (almost) neutral sounding Senns. The iPad is slightly better and more detailed sounding, compared to the audio from the headphone out of iPhone. I read from an iFixit teardown that they use a custom designed Cirrus logic DAC chips, and nothing more than that.
Out of curiosity, to check how good these are compared to the DAC implementation in my stereo, I hooked up the iPad via lightning port to Marantz CD player (which supports iOS docking) and listened through Senns plugged into the 6.5mm jack on Marantz PM6004. Source: Spotify/Tidal app on iPad. I was expecting an audible difference in audio quality over my usual portable setup, but was pleasantly surprised when I could discern little to no audible difference!

Curious, I did some reading online and came across this segment of a panel interview on YouTube. Time stamp: 57 minutes, Dr Fang Bian, CEO of Hifiman speaks on how good the iPhone headphone section is (and a poor decision by Apple to get rid of it in currently gen iPhones, replacing it with a congested/opaque sounding $10 dongle) and can easily beat a DAP costing $600+. Interesting!

Further digging online lead me to some objective measurements made by Ken Rockwell on iPhone 6s and iPad Pro, driving real loads. His findings mirrors my experience.

To quote from his blog:

As expected, the analog audio output of the iPhone 6S Plus is extraordinarily good. It has only half the distortion of the already extraordinary iPhone 6 Plus.

Apple has more smart people and more resources than any other audio company on the planet, so as we see when it comes to audio engineering, the iPhone easily outdoes many so-called "audiophile" products.

For enjoying music, you will probably get poorer performance if you waste your time and money with outboard DACs or headphone amplifiers; the iPhone already has the best there is.

Why do commercial audio magazines tout external DACs and amplifiers? Because that what their advertisers are trying to sell!

The only reason to get an outboard headphone amplifier for use with your iPhone 6S Plus is if you have high-impedance (100Ω or greater) headphones like the 600 Ω beyerdynamic DT880 which often require more voltage than the 1V RMS maximum from iOS devices. In this case, you still don't need a DAC; the analog output from the iPhone's 3.5mm jack will probably be better than what you'd get fromo an expensive outboard DAC!

My experiences are very limited. I would love to hear about other members' experience using external DAC/Amps with Apple devices. At what price point did you start noticing a considerable improvement in audio quality over the headphone jack? Was it a better sound or just a different sound?

 

[Deleted member 15865]

@sandeepss, different and interesting thread! I have been into the Apple ecosystem for years now. Occasional forays into Android were summarily unsatisfying. Currently I use the iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPad Pro, MacBook Pro (5 years old) and Apple TV (4th gen). In the past were some earlier iPhone and iPad models.

I can’t comment on 6s (though I owned previously the 5s, earlier), but yes, most of us rue that Apple ditched the 3.5mm. I never used audiophile headphones back then, but today I pair my Etymotic with the iPhone 11 Pro Max (through the dongle). And I find the sound highly transparent, resolving and musical. I don’t find any loss in quality as compared to when I listen to the Etys connected to MacBook Pro’s 3.5 mm jack. And in fact I like the music more through the iPhone than through iPad Pro - it feels more musical - I don’t know why. Of course I need headphone amp to listen to any of the Apple devices with my Beyerdynamic T1 headphones which are 600 ohm. But when I do, the sound is top notch. I also use an external DAC (Bifrost) then.

But playback through phone is not all that matters to an audiophile. I find the Apple TV does a good job while watching TV through any of the streaming apps. I stream the audio onto the CXN and into my amp-speakers and it’s quite enjoyable for a 2.0.

Also the iPhone 11 Pro Max is excellent at voice/AV recording. It catches the sound unbelievably well for a phone, including the stereo effect.

 

[fLUX]

@sandeepss Interesting POV , i have felt exactly the opposite with android(Non-LG, never tried the quad dac) and on-board realtek DACs of my desktop/laptop. The biggest difference i notice when i use any DAC over the onboard one is that the thinness in the vocals/instruments seems to vanish and becomes more pronounced , while there are improvements in other aspects as well this is what i notice on an immediate basis.
The only IOS device i owned was an Apple Ipod touch 4g and had a Cowon S9 back then which I found to be better than Ipod touch 4g hence i sold off the Touch 4g, that was a long time ago around 10-11 years back so cant really comment on what did i find different.

Coming to your CD player headphone out, i am of the opinion that headphone outs in most of the stereo amps/AVRs are poorly implemented, this opinion is formed on the basis of using headphone out from a Yamaha VX-479, Marantz NR1509 and Marantz PM6006. If i run my headphones directly out of my SMSL SU-8 or the dedicated Headphone Amp chain there is a day and night difference in the presentation which is directly noticeable.

 

[superczar]

I can’t comment on 6s (though I owned previously the 5s, earlier), but yes, most of us rue that Apple ditched the 3.5mm.

[/QUOTE]

On the 3.5mm exclusion, you should take a look at this set of measurements.. That tiny free dongle from apple beats far more expensive DACs quite comprehensively
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541

[QUOTE="sandeepss, post: 886430, member: 39377"]

My experiences are very limited. I would love to hear about other members' experience using external DAC/Amps with Apple devices. At what price point did you start noticing a considerable improvement in audio quality over the headphone jack? Was it a [I][B]better[/B][/I] sound or just a [I][B]different[/B][/I] sound?
[/QUOTE]


[USER=39377]@sandeepss Another user here who is firmly entrenched in the Apple ecosystem since over a decade - other than perhaps a brief (and rather disappointing) interlude with a surface Pro that lasted 6 months and a slightly longer but reasonably good stint with Samsung Galaxy something. I have never felt the need for an external DAC precisely for this reason - I find the o/p from a macbook/ ipad / airport express perfectly fine with no need for further tweaking. Do note that I I am not much of an audiophile though and place a greater value on convenience than most other users here who are more exacting about audio - e.g. I disposed of much better reviewed Sennsheiser and Sony earphones for airpod Pros because the latter are more comfortable. However I do get why some people swear by external DACs - because of the utterly disappointing output I have seen from my office Dell and some other windows laptops I have used in the past

 

[superczar]

I can’t comment on 6s (though I owned previously the 5s, earlier), but yes, most of us rue that Apple ditched the 3.5mm. I never used audiophile headphones back then, but today I pair my Etymotic with the iPhone 11 Pro Max (through the dongle). And I find the sound highly transparent, resolving and musical.

On the 3.5mm exclusion, you should take a look at this set of measurements.. That tiny free dongle from apple beats far more expensive DACs quite comprehensively

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

@sandeepss Another user here who is firmly entrenched in the Apple ecosystem since over a decade - other than perhaps a brief (and rather disappointing) interlude with a surface Pro that lasted 6 months and a slightly longer but reasonably good stint with Samsung Galaxy something.

I have never felt the need for an external DAC precisely for this reason - I find the o/p from a macbook/ ipad / airport express perfectly fine with no need for further tweaking.

Do note that I I am not much of an audiophile though and place a greater value on convenience than most other users here who are more exacting about audio - e.g. I disposed of much better reviewed Sennsheiser and Sony earphones for airpod Pros because the latter are more comfortable.

However I do get why some people swear by external DACs - because of the utterly disappointing output I have seen from my office Dell and some other windows laptops I have used in the past

 

[Ashenden]

I never used audiophile headphones back then, but today I pair my Etymotic with the iPhone 11 Pro Max (through the dongle). And I find the sound highly transparent, resolving and musical. I don’t find any loss in quality as compared to when I listen to the Etys connected to MacBook Pro’s 3.5 mm jack. And in fact I like the music more through the iPhone than through iPad Pro - it feels more musical - I don’t know why.

@SachinChavan , thanks for your inputs.
I've not used the dongle, neither have I heard the Etys, so can't comment on them. I would guess the dongle has a better synergy with your Etys, compared to iPad Pro? In the Ken Rockwell blog, the iPad Pro measures really well.
My iPad is the entry level variant (7th gen). In my experience, the iPad resolves slightly better than the 6s, rest of the presentation remaining the same. On well recorded tracks, its an exceptional experience. On badly mastered albums, with Senns (Meze 99 is warm and smooth sounding, good for casual listening), the flaws do come across. I find the 6s to be a better choice with such albums.

With Beyer T1 and iPhone, do you always use Bifrost as external DAC? How much of an improvement are you getting, compared to iPhone --->Amp---->T1 ?

Coming to your CD player headphone out, i am of the opinion that headphone outs in most of the stereo amps/AVRs are poorly implemented, this opinion is formed on the basis of using headphone out from a Yamaha VX-479, Marantz NR1509 and Marantz PM6006. If i run my headphones directly out of my SMSL SU-8 or the dedicated Headphone Amp chain there is a day and night difference in the presentation which is directly noticeable.

@fLUX , thanks for your inputs.
I haven't used the headphone amp section on the IA extensively, other than for testing HPs. I find them to be as good as when driven directly from iOS devices.
Pardon my ignorance here My query: can the difference be attributed to a louder output with your Headphone Amp? For headphones which are easy to drive, will more power change the presentation? Assumption is that iOS device headphone amp is a decent one, albeit lesser powerful than the one present in my IA (PM6004)

Do note that I I am not much of an audiophile

Neither am I . Thanks for your inputs!

 

[fLUX]

@fLUX , thanks for your inputs.
I haven't used the headphone amp section on the IA extensively, other than for testing HPs. I find them to be as good as when driven directly from iOS devices.
Pardon my ignorance here My query: can the difference be attributed to a louder output with your Headphone Amp? For headphones which are easy to drive, will more power change the presentation? Assumption is that iOS device headphone amp is a decent one, albeit lesser powerful than the one present in my IA (PM6004)



Neither am I . Thanks for your inputs!

More power can improvem the presentation by a good margin for demanding IEM/Headphones.
The Meze 99 Classics are certainly an exception there, having owned one i can say that while there was a noticeable difference from my DAP/Desktop setup , did not anywhere justify the cost to benefit ratio. The Meze 99 classics dont require much power and are very to easy to drive.
However when i move over to something like Sennheiser HD6XX / Hifiman HE560/Ananda , they benefit highly from a good dac and a powerful amplifier (more so with the amplifier).

What i found lacking with the IA/AVR headphone out was the details and the soundstage , it totally dissapeared. It could still drive the headphone to unbearable volumes but the engagement which was there went missing.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

I had a ak 70 dap , chord mojo before, on volume matching atleast with my headphones which is a beoplay h6 I hardly heard a difference. Same details each of the devices had a different tonality and thats it. Nothing was completely superior over the other. I can just live with the apple dongle if the headphones arent power hungry. I would rate ak70 lower than iphone as it had more colored sound profile which in to me is poor engineering marketed as "voicing". Glad that i got rid of that dumb thing.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

On the 3.5mm exclusion, you should take a look at this set of measurements.. That tiny free dongle from apple beats far more expensive DACs quite comprehensively

I am not a ‘measurements’ guy when it comes to audio. But I take your word for it. As I wrote earlier, the sound I get on my Etys through the dongle is as good as what I get from the on board DAC LD the MacBookPro. The user disenchantment at Apple disposing the 3.5 mm port wasn’t because of sound quality from the dongle, but from the inconvenience of carrying (and not losing)the dongle itself.

I would guess the dongle has a better synergy with your Etys, compared to iPad Pro?

No, no. I have to use the same dongle with iPad Pro too. I believe the newer iPhone 11 is just a better digital transport than the two years older iPad Pro.

With Beyer T1 and iPhone, do you always use Bifrost as external DAC? How much of an improvement are you getting, compared to iPhone --->Amp---->T1 ?

With the T1, I always use the Bifrost and the Valhalla 2. You need an amp like the Valhalla 2 (or better) to get the best out of them. Without it the T1 sounds awfully lifeless driven directly by the McBookPro. Also, I don’t use the iPhone with the T1 - I don’t have a cable going from phone to the Bifrost (digital) or Valhalla (analog). With the iPhone I only use the Etymotic ER4SR directly. So I can’t directly answer your question.

But the MacbookPro-Bifrost-Valhalla2-T1 is clearly my best sounding system. Very open, dynamic and immersive. The iPhone-Etymotic combo on the other hand is the most transparent and linear sound I have. I wonder what kind of sound I’d get connecting the iPhone (using its dongle) directly to the Valhalla - I’d need a 3.5 to RCA connector for that.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

I am not a ‘measurements’ guy when it comes to audio. But I take your word for it. As I wrote earlier, the sound I get on my Etys through the dongle is as good as what I get from the on board DAC LD the MacBookPro. The user disenchantment at Apple disposing the 3.5 mm port wasn’t because of sound quality from the dongle, but from the inconvenience of carrying (and not losing)the dongle itself.



No, no. I have to use the same dongle with iPad Pro too. I believe the newer iPhone 11 is just a better digital transport than the two years older iPad Pro.




With the T1, I always use the Bifrost and the Valhalla 2. You need an amp like the Valhalla 2 (or better) to get the best out of them. Without it the T1 sounds awfully lifeless driven directly by the McBookPro. Also, I don’t use the iPhone with the T1 - I don’t have a cable going from phone to the Bifrost (digital) or Valhalla (analog). With the iPhone I only use the Etymotic ER4SR directly. So I can’t directly answer your question.

But the MacbookPro-Bifrost-Valhalla2-T1 is clearly my best sounding system. Very open, dynamic and immersive. The iPhone-Etymotic combo on the other hand is the most transparent and linear sound I have. I wonder what kind of sound I’d get connecting the iPhone (using its dongle) directly to the Valhalla - I’d need a 3.5 to RCA connector for that.

@sandeepss, different and interesting thread! I have been into the Apple ecosystem for years now. Occasional forays into Android were summarily unsatisfying. Currently I use the iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPad Pro, MacBook Pro (5 years old) and Apple TV (4th gen). In the past were some earlier iPhone and iPad models.

I can’t comment on 6s (though I owned previously the 5s, earlier), but yes, most of us rue that Apple ditched the 3.5mm. I never used audiophile headphones back then, but today I pair my Etymotic with the iPhone 11 Pro Max (through the dongle). And I find the sound highly transparent, resolving and musical. I don’t find any loss in quality as compared to when I listen to the Etys connected to MacBook Pro’s 3.5 mm jack. And in fact I like the music more through the iPhone than through iPad Pro - it feels more musical - I don’t know why. Of course I need headphone amp to listen to any of the Apple devices with my Beyerdynamic T1 headphones which are 600 ohm. But when I do, the sound is top notch. I also use an external DAC (Bifrost) then.

But playback through phone is not all that matters to an audiophile. I find the Apple TV does a good job while watching TV through any of the streaming apps. I stream the audio onto the CXN and into my amp-speakers and it’s quite enjoyable for a 2.0.

Also the iPhone 11 Pro Max is excellent at voice/AV recording. It catches the sound unbelievably well for a phone, including the stereo effect.

I dont have a ipad pro, but a regular ipad, iphone x and the 11 pro max. The dongle sounds exactly same on all devices.

 

[Jupiter]

Apple devices are better then their counterparts in terms of sound quality but when the device is specialised like lg devices then it is miles behind

I tried asus rog 2 headphone output it was excellent and dont know why it is even louder then the lgs output dont know why i used onlly iems

 

[amit11]

I too have apple from the beginning fortunately, and i would say i am happy with it. Ofcourse I did not have money to buy the first products and i got it from my father and sister). My thoughts as below. Note this is for both listening to normal earphones or to stereo speakers via amplifier.

- I found apple more musical than android phones or windows computers. I have not tried many models and i have read that some android models sound good. Many are using windows after tweaking and they seem to like it very much. hence everybodys experience is different.
- In terms of direct headphone out, yes Apple sounds musical than most.
- Not all models of apple phones / or apple ipads are musical. Some sound harsh in comparison. For example iphone 3gs sounds harsh. Iphone 4s a bit better. And the one which I currently use is ipad mini1 and i found it very good.
- Not all model of apple ipods sound good. I had two ipods and the ipod nano 4th generation sound more sweeter than ipod nano 2nd generation.

- initially headphone out
- in general a good apple model has a VERY VERY musical headphone out. In general i did not feel any urge to buy external dac for few months during my start of this audiophile journey.
- during my first days of hunting to buy a new stereo system and during auditions, i used to carry ipod (nano 4th generation) and used to audition via headphone out only. I did not have CDs nor cd player to audition. All the dealers usually used to get impressed during audition. They could not believe i was auditioning using mp3 files. Those times i really felt that apple is good.
- However after few months and studying more and more of external dac, wires etc, i took the plunge and bought an external DAC

- then to external DAC
- After starting with external dac, yes it makes a difference compared to headphone out. We find it better than headphone out
- Now depending upon the setup, you may feel some gaps compared to headphone out but overall sound is more spacious and crisp.
- again here my experience with external dac is i found apple to be more musical than android and windows computer.. (ofcourse different people will have different experience and it is possible that my android and windows computer were not really good)

- different options for apple to external DAC
- i had recently posted my various trials and which one sounded better or best.
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/apple-airplay.79863/
That post has an attachment/image which actually shows the options and ranking.

hope this helps and my two cents.

 

[Ashenden]

@amit11 , thanks Were you able to do a comparison with any of these: iPhone 6s/iPad 7th/iPad Pro/apple dongle and your DAC (which I presume is the Muse mini in your signature)?

@SachinChavan , my bad! I didn't know they got rid of the headphone jack on iPad Pros as well

I had a ak 70 dap , chord mojo before, on volume matching atleast with my headphones which is a beoplay h6 I hardly heard a difference. Same details each of the devices had a different tonality and thats it. Nothing was completely superior over the other. I can just live with the apple dongle if the headphones arent power hungry. I would rate ak70 lower than iphone as it had more colored sound profile which in to me is poor engineering marketed as "voicing". Glad that i got rid of that dumb thing.

That's a glowing endorsement for the little dongle . Since you also use the normal iPad, have you done a comparison of the dongle and the headphone jack output? Any difference?

Apple devices are better then their counterparts in terms of sound quality but when the device is specialised like lg devices then it is miles behind

I tried asus rog 2 headphone output it was excellent and dont know why it is even louder then the lgs output dont know why i used onlly iems

Could you please elaborate a bit more here?
The iPhone/iPad/LG model and the headphone/IEMs you used to compare. When you say 'miles behind', in what way?

 

[chander]

My first run in with iDevices was horrible, I believe it was the 4th or 5th gen ipod touch.

However since I have used iPads, mac minis, iphones etc as my dedicated media players in my systems. I am also considering the ipod Touch 7G as my PMP while travelling, tidal and all carrying around the massive DAPs is annoying.

I do FEEL that the SQ of iDevices on 3.5s, thunderbolts and usb C now is better, with or without DACs compared to my Lenovo X1 carbon and pixel 4xl.

Waiting on someone to actually put up the true measurements of the 3.5 on 7G.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

I too have apple from the beginning fortunately, and i would say i am happy with it. Ofcourse I did not have money to buy the first products and i got it from my father and sister). My thoughts as below. Note this is for both listening to normal earphones or to stereo speakers via amplifier.

- I found apple more musical than android phones or windows computers. I have not tried many models and i have read that some android models sound good. Many are using windows after tweaking and they seem to like it very much. hence everybodys experience is different.
- In terms of direct headphone out, yes Apple sounds musical than most.
- Not all models of apple phones / or apple ipads are musical. Some sound harsh in comparison. For example iphone 3gs sounds harsh. Iphone 4s a bit better. And the one which I currently use is ipad mini1 and i found it very good.
- Not all model of apple ipods sound good. I had two ipods and the ipod nano 4th generation sound more sweeter than ipod nano 2nd generation.

- initially headphone out
- in general a good apple model has a VERY VERY musical headphone out. In general i did not feel any urge to buy external dac for few months during my start of this audiophile journey.
- during my first days of hunting to buy a new stereo system and during auditions, i used to carry ipod (nano 4th generation) and used to audition via headphone out only. I did not have CDs nor cd player to audition. All the dealers usually used to get impressed during audition. They could not believe i was auditioning using mp3 files. Those times i really felt that apple is good.
- However after few months and studying more and more of external dac, wires etc, i took the plunge and bought an external DAC

- then to external DAC
- After starting with external dac, yes it makes a difference compared to headphone out. We find it better than headphone out
- Now depending upon the setup, you may feel some gaps compared to headphone out but overall sound is more spacious and crisp.
- again here my experience with external dac is i found apple to be more musical than android and windows computer.. (ofcourse different people will have different experience and it is possible that my android and windows computer were not really good)

- different options for apple to external DAC
- i had recently posted my various trials and which one sounded better or best.
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/apple-airplay.79863/
That post has an attachment/image which actually shows the options and ranking.

hope this helps and my two cents.

I had conneceted my chord mojo to the iphone and a galaxy s8 with usapp. There is no difference in audio quality coming from the source. There is no magic anywhere which makes one superior over the other.

@amit11 , thanks Were you able to do a comparison with any of these: iPhone 6s/iPad 7th/iPad Pro/apple dongle and your DAC (which I presume is the Muse mini in your signature)?

@SachinChavan , my bad! I didn't know they got rid of the headphone jack on iPad Pros as well


That's a glowing endorsement for the little dongle . Since you also use the normal iPad, have you done a comparison of the dongle and the headphone jack output? Any difference?



Could you please elaborate a bit more here?
The iPhone/iPad/LG model and the headphone/IEMs you used to compare. When you say 'miles behind', in what way?

yes, there is a small difference but not too much. The older one somehow feels more meaty in midbass but less cleaner compared Tor he dongle. but for the most part it’s the same. The dongle sounds better to me. There is no dumb reason to go back to the old 6s for this reason. There is a type c version of the dongle. But I think you need usapp to get it work well on android. I still haven’t tried it

 

[amit11]

Apple makes some very good products, which last a really long time (at least the ones I have with me). But, I rarely see iOS devices being considered as an audiophile grade DAP/streamer.

Personally I prefer listening to music on portable gear, over dedicated stereo. I listen to a lot of Acoustic/Classical music and feel that headphones offer a higher degree of intimacy to the recording, conveying more details and overall emotion, compared to speakers. I'm currently using iPhone 6s (yes, can't think of a reason to upgrade to another phone without a headphone jack. I will keep using it till it dies/software support ends, whichever is earlier ) and iPad (2019 model), driving Sennheiser 380pro and Meze 99 headphones. At 54Ohm and 32Ohm respectively, these are very easy to drive from the 3.5mm headphone jack and hence I've never used an external DAC/Amp. I love how good these two sounds, especially the (almost) neutral sounding Senns. The iPad is slightly better and more detailed sounding, compared to the audio from the headphone out of iPhone. I read from an iFixit teardown that they use a custom designed Cirrus logic DAC chips, and nothing more than that.
Out of curiosity, to check how good these are compared to the DAC implementation in my stereo, I hooked up the iPad via lightning port to Marantz CD player (which supports iOS docking) and listened through Senns plugged into the 6.5mm jack on Marantz PM6004. Source: Spotify/Tidal app on iPad. I was expecting an audible difference in audio quality over my usual portable setup, but was pleasantly surprised when I could discern little to no audible difference!

Curious, I did some reading online and came across this segment of a panel interview on YouTube. Time stamp: 57 minutes, Dr Fang Bian, CEO of Hifiman speaks on how good the iPhone headphone section is (and a poor decision by Apple to get rid of it in currently gen iPhones, replacing it with a congested/opaque sounding $10 dongle) and can easily beat a DAP costing $600+. Interesting!

Further digging online lead me to some objective measurements made by Ken Rockwell on iPhone 6s and iPad Pro, driving real loads. His findings mirrors my experience.

To quote from his blog:



My experiences are very limited. I would love to hear about other members' experience using external DAC/Amps with Apple devices. At what price point did you start noticing a considerable improvement in audio quality over the headphone jack? Was it a better sound or just a different sound?

Bumped into this old thread.

Regarding your question if dac makes difference when listening from source as apple?

Then yes, it definitely does. Whether apple or not apple, an external dac for sure makes difference. My progressive (and sometimes i feel demotion) happened in these phases.
A) first started with ipod nano, connected via 3.5mm jack going straight to amplifier. Sounded nirvana.

B) then some itch so that no wire.
Had ipad mini, bought airport express having 3.5 mm out. This was also nirvana without any wire bcos Airplay.


C) then started itch for dac.
Had purchaded schiit. It was fed via optical out of airport express. This sound was more crisp and tight bcos of dac.

D) then thought of airplay via something different. So rasperry pi having airplay. Output was usb connected to dac. (By this time i had multiple dacs tried out)

E) now i have different airplay. It is via marantz streamer (plus cd player which i never use).
The marantz has airplay 2 (note, all above were airplay 1) and optical is fed to a new dac chord qutest.

So far using apple , airplay and external dac - this is what i find an upgrade from initial path. But i still sometimes miss the naturalness smoothess of ipod. (Wolfson chip inside)