AVR+5.1 Decisions, decisions!

[Jay5150]

Hi guys, I need some input to sort of make up my mind. I have been a long time lurker here and on some other forums so I have a general idea of the "lay of the land"as far the basic concepts are concerned.

So here is the deal.
This setup has been in incubation for almost 5 years. I have finally come back home for the past 3 years. HT is at the absolute bottom of priorities as far as my better half is concerned, hence the delay while we squared off family stuff.
While we renovate some other stuff I have managed to squirrel away about 2 lakh which has been allotted for my use .

The rest of my stuff is in my signature.

The Hall is 25' x 15'. Thick curtains on the windows. Large stuffy sofa set. 2 large carpets, bookshelves. I think enough to absorb stray soundwaves. Since it is only a 55" TV It has been placed across the width, so that viewing distance is about 8-10'.

Use is going to be Movies 70% and Music about 30%. I would love to listen to more music but I am the only one in the family who listens to the stuff I do and I have 2 very curious kids who won't let Daddy alone!
So Movies through BD/DVD/HD TataSky, Gaming through PS3 and my music is Jazz, Rock and Fusion stuff. Mostly instrumental jazz and the old rock for nostalgia. (Pat Metheny, Greg Howe, Tribal Tech, Steely Dan etc.)

I have been in touch with a couple of sources and I have more or less decided on the Denon X2000 as my AVR. (The 2113 is also available for 3k less, they seem to be identical except for a few networking/zone 2 related stuff) So i decided to go for the newer one. No more upgrades for me, no sir!

The confusion arises for the speaker choices.

I know the common sense thing to do is to audition. The problem is the place I stay. Not much option for a test run. Plus my job. 9 hour days 6-7 days a week and not much time off. Yes I am in the medical profession :sad:

To give you an idea of the type of sound I like. I went for an audition to ProFx in Coimbatore 3 years ago. I definitely did not like the Polk TSi very muddled and no resolution and I loved the KEF I think it was iQ series.
My speakers must have clarity and a tight low end. I dont listen to much metal nowadays and I wont be cranking up the volume. Also many of the movies I like, have more dialogue as opposed to explosions


My options are these

1) Dali Zensor 5 + Zensor 1 + Zensor Vokal + Dali Sub 12E
2) Wharfedale Diamond 10.5 + DFS + 10CM + Sub ?) (No quote yet)
3) Polk RTi A5 + FXi A6/4 + CSi A6/4 + DSW Pro 660 (No quote yet)
4) KEF Q500 + Q800ds + Q200c + Q400b ( I loved the idea of this combo but its just too expensive thanks mainly to the dipoles which are twice the price of all other options in this list)

So these are my questions to the guys especially those FMs who have any of these speakers

A) Is there much of a difference in quality using normal bookshelves instead of dipoles as surrounds?

B) Is the Polk RTi that much better than the TSi as far as quality and clarity is concerned? Most of the US forums seem to love the RTi. The new TSx seems to be only a cosmetic change.

C) As the price is almost same is it ok to switch the sub? As in use the Polk DSW with the Dali or KEF combination. (The Dali sub is about 10k more but a 12" and the KEF sub is a 10" for the same price as the Polk which is a 12")

D) Isn't it better to get a center with larger drivers? e.g. The Dali Vokal and KEF Q200c have 5.25 in ones and the Wharfedale Diamond 10 CM and Polk CSi A6 have 6.5 inch ones


Sorry to have put you guys to sleep with this long ass post but I would appreciate any input especially from existing owners.

Thanks

 

[HTuser]

Hi,

Preference of sound varies with person, hence it is better to audition before purchase.


A) Is there much of a difference in quality using normal bookshelves instead of dipoles as surrounds?
I wanted more bass from the surrounds as well, hence I went for bookshelves. Bookshelves can be used if your listening position is fixed and you can direct the speaker. Dipole will help if many people are going to watch simultaneously and seating distance varies from the screen.

B) Is the Polk RTi that much better than the TSi as far as quality and clarity is concerned? Most of the US forums seem to love the RTi. The new TSx seems to be only a cosmetic change.
RTi is much better than TSi. If you can spend more you can evaluate Monitor Audio Silver/Gold, Paradigm etc.
Considering your preference to clarity and voice than Bass and effects; I would say that KEF will be better choice than RTi.

C) As the price is almost same is it ok to switch the sub? As in use the Polk DSW with the Dali or KEF combination. (The Dali sub is about 10k more but a 12" and the KEF sub is a 10" for the same price as the Polk which is a 12")
Sub and speakers need not be the same make. If you search on the net, you will find names like SVS, Epik, Elemental Designs, HSU Research etc. as preferred subs.


D) Isn't it better to get a center with larger drivers? e.g. The Dali Vokal and KEF Q200c have 5.25 in ones and the Wharfedale Diamond 10 CM and Polk CSi A6 have 6.5 inch ones
It is better to match the center with fronts. If fronts are having 6.5" drivers like RTi A5, use CSi A6 as front (not A4). This will reproduce the panning (left to right via center and vice versa) sounds in a smooth way.

 

[prosenjit]

25*15..
i dont think avr will be enough..
pre/pro+power..or avr+power is recomended..

and no sub except svs,velodyne,HSU..etc..its a big hall

for vocals as u said..yes kef,usher,focal...are very much reconemded

 

[Jay5150]

Thanks a lot HTuser for your reply. I see by your sig that you are an RTi user.

How happy are you with your setup? I was very unhappy with the Tsi's performance. How different are the Rtis in resolution and clarity?

The TSi sounded like a mushy hot mess. I would like nothing more than to get the KEF Qs but the budget is fixed. I do not want any budget creep! Its just like buying a car and I have seen many FMs here start with a budget of say 75k and finally circlejerked around and end up spending 2L plus Not that thats a bad thing but no xtra money boss!

Did you test out the FXi Dipoles and why did you settle for the A3s?

Holy moly thats a big sub! Did you compare against the Polk DSW? Was the SVS much more expensive?

Thanks for the heads up on the center!

 

[elangoas]

Consider this if you are open to other brands as well...

For your room size of 25x 15 & 70% of movie watching, you will need 2 subwoofers... FS might not be able to fill the room...

For movies, all you need is BS/Sub combo (or) Sat/Sub Combo....Since there is a x over for each channel in AVR, you could set that to subwoofer which will do a far better Job in filling your room space...

I will start from the least possible budget... Other FM's would tell you close to this (or) lil more expensive ones..

Okay.. so here it is... Sonodyne Genie 2 series (Sat/Sub) combo....

If you AVR is 7.2 Capable, then you can make full use of it with these tiny speakers... (Approx 7 pieces of this speaker will cost you 40K...).. You can add 2 subwoofers Sonodyne Roarr series 108 (Approx 30K)..

So 70K for 7.2 speakers... you are done with 7.2 setup....

 

[Jay5150]

Thanks for the input Elangoas! I think the Denon X2000 is 7.1 only.

I think the room should be ok for a FS+SW combo. That is why I am thinking of going for a 12" SW. My present HTiB which was more than adequate for my apartment in Coimbatore sounds thin in this hall.

If I can mix and match and still come within my budget i think i should be ok. I think a 2 SW solution will anyway push my budget up.

 

[elangoas]

Thanks for the input Elangoas! I think the Denon X2000 is 7.1 only.

I think the room should be ok for a FS+SW combo. That is why I am thinking of going for a 12" SW. My present HTiB which was more than adequate for my apartment in Coimbatore sounds thin in this hall.

If I can mix and match and still come within my budget i think i should be ok. I think a 2 SW solution will anyway push my budget up.

Perfect buddy...Juz my suggestion...

 

[manjpusa]

me too,i agree with you,I think the Denon X2000 is 7.1 only.thank you

 

[HTuser]

I am happy with the setup. Me too had budget constraints, otherwise I could have opted for Paradigm Studio, Monitor Audio Gold etc. I had a budget of 1L for 7.0 speakers. I auditioned Wharfedale, KEF, Polk, etc. My usage is 95% movies and 5% music and I Like lot of bass, hence decided on RTi.

For music I use Bose Quiet Comfort 2 Head Phones (Connected to iPod/Laptop), and to be frank they reproduce music much better than my HT setup.

Considering your room size, you will need a sub like SVS PB12 Plus (the one I have). It costs around 1L, but it is my favorite item in my HT setup.

If you can stretch your budget for items you liked; I would recommend going for it. Otherwise you will end up upgrading early, in that process you will lose more money because there won't be many takers for second hand (generally out of warranty) items. And you may not be satisfied with a compromised setup.

As I mentioned in my previous post RTi A3 produce lower bass better than FXi. I have seen many movies having mid range frequencies recorded for surround speakers. Most of the times I watch movies alone and directional speakers (A3) is better.

If you are planning for 5.1 setup, Fxi would be better, but in a 7.1 setup you have additional speakers. You may audition both and decide.

We can't compare polk DSW with SVS, they are in different leagues. I have seen videos on net where people installed Two SVS PB13 Plus in their HT Room !!!

Thanks a lot HTuser for your reply. I see by your sig that you are an RTi user.

How happy are you with your setup? I was very unhappy with the Tsi's performance. How different are the Rtis in resolution and clarity?

The TSi sounded like a mushy hot mess. I would like nothing more than to get the KEF Qs but the budget is fixed. I do not want any budget creep! Its just like buying a car and I have seen many FMs here start with a budget of say 75k and finally circlejerked around and end up spending 2L plus Not that thats a bad thing but no xtra money boss!

Did you test out the FXi Dipoles and why did you settle for the A3s?

Holy moly thats a big sub! Did you compare against the Polk DSW? Was the SVS much more expensive?

Thanks for the heads up on the center!

 

[Jay5150]

Still in the process of reviewing packages. I most probably will go with the Denon and Polk RTi combo. I need some input regarding HDMI cables. I need one to connect the AVR to TV. Choices are between Sony, Belkin or the Monoprice. Is the Monoprice worth it or will the Belkin do?

 

[prosenjit]

for short distance any 300 Rs will do..
belkin will be fine

 

[Jay5150]

Ok guys, its done!
I bought all the stuff with minor modifications for budget. Will post pics and first impressions once I get the stuff in a couple of weeks.

I am a bit apprehensive as it was a blind buy and opposed to popular wisdom I did not take a demo. But the dealer has given me the option that if i do not like the speaker I can change it in a couple of days for another brand. But thats what forums are for right?! Collective wisdom and all that

Denon AVR X 2000
Polk Audio RTi A5 FS pair
Polk Audio FXi A4 Dipole surround pair
Polk Audio CSi A6 center
Polk Audio DSW Pro 660 SW
Panasonic DMP - BDT 220 BD player (A)


Thanks guys for all the help!

 

[AshishSingh]

Ok guys, its done!
I bought all the stuff with minor modifications for budget. Will post pics and first impressions once I get the stuff in a couple of weeks.

I am a bit apprehensive as it was a blind buy and opposed to popular wisdom I did not take a demo. But the dealer has given me the option that if i do not like the speaker I can change it in a couple of days for another brand. But thats what forums are for right?! Collective wisdom and all that

Denon AVR X 2000
Polk Audio RTi A5 FS pair
Polk Audio FXi A4 Dipole surround pair
Polk Audio CSi A6 center
Polk Audio DSW Pro 660 SW
Panasonic DMP - BDT 220 BD player (A)


Thanks guys for all the help!

Congtrats!! :thumbup:
N pls share the prices

 

[rjg]

Hi Jay5150 Congrats For your New System....

I also Bought Yesterday Dali Zensor 7 FS Pair (5.1 pkg) + Zensor 1 BS pair
for Surround+Centre Vocal+Dali Subwoofer E 12F + Denon Avr x-1000 here in Mumbai For Rs.179,000/- with Bill/Warrenty/Instalation.

Wish You Goodluck & Enjoy your System.

Rajubhai

 

[Jay5150]

That's a great deal Rajubhai! I was quoted 1.89 for a similar package but with X2000 and Zensor 5 that was why I decided to go with the Polk because my room is big and I did not want great sounding but underpowered speakers for the room. I am sitting fingers crossed hoping that the RTi sounds good!

 

[piyush78]

Hello friends,

I have a similar query regarding 5.1 speaker system. How is the BA soundware xs5.1
compaired to the sonodyne genie 1 speaker system with a sonodyne sub? Which one will suit better for a living room of size 12 X 12 feet. Which one has a better soundstage & crisp sound for movies:music (60:40) with a denon entry level AVR? Thanks in advance.

Also , are the more expensive systems like wharf DX1 or the definitive tech Procinema 600 / Paradigm cinema 110 much better sounding for a sat system compaired to BA xs5.1 & sonodyne genie series. Very much confused regarding which speakers to buy??? Kindly help..

 

[elangoas]

Hello friends,

I have a similar query regarding 5.1 speaker system. How is the BA soundware xs5.1
compaired to the sonodyne genie 1 speaker system with a sonodyne sub? Which one will suit better for a living room of size 12 X 12 feet. Which one has a better soundstage & crisp sound for movies:music (60:40) with a denon entry level AVR? Thanks in advance.

Also , are the more expensive systems like wharf DX1 or the definitive tech Procinema 600 / Paradigm cinema 110 much better sounding for a sat system compaired to BA xs5.1 & sonodyne genie series. Very much confused regarding which speakers to buy??? Kindly help..

Juz to give you the difference between the Boston Acoustics & Sonodyne Genie sieries...

Speaker BA XS Sonodyne Genie
Sensitivity- 85db 87db
Build Quality- Plastic Aluminium..

There is not much of difference in Freq response between the two.... Genie's would be more efficient than the BA XS for the same amplifier....

Also a more expensive system doesn't necessarily mean they are good.... If you are comparing it from the same brand with different series, then they are superior...

Otherwise a wise choice is better anyday....

 

[Jay5150]

Ok guys,
I was just getting all the sources ready as the AVR+Spkrs should be delivered and installed sometime in the next week. Looks like I was lucky and beat the price rise!

Anyway I noticed that the X2000 does not have a coaxial digital IN only optical (2) and the rest are analog RCA inputs. i was planning to connect my cheap Sony DVD player as I have a lot of DVDs with many regions which has analog and coaxial digital out.

So I guess the only option to connect my DVD player to get proper sound from the DVDs Component video+Analog audio?

 

[Acuity]

I noticed that the X2000 does not have a coaxial digital IN

I believe it does have a coax digital in. I'm pretty sure I have seen it demoed with a Coax digital input, also the specs say there is 1 coax in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CnS]

Ok guys, its done!
I bought all the stuff with minor modifications for budget. Will post pics and first impressions once I get the stuff in a couple of weeks.

I am a bit apprehensive as it was a blind buy and opposed to popular wisdom I did not take a demo. But the dealer has given me the option that if i do not like the speaker I can change it in a couple of days for another brand. But thats what forums are for right?! Collective wisdom and all that

Denon AVR X 2000
Polk Audio RTi A5 FS pair
Polk Audio FXi A4 Dipole surround pair
Polk Audio CSi A6 center
Polk Audio DSW Pro 660 SW
Panasonic DMP - BDT 220 BD player (A)


Thanks guys for all the help!

Nice selection... I personally kike Rti a lot.