Basic queries regarding Stereo setup

[kvandhi]

I have some basic queries regarding Stereo setup for small room (10x12 feet) :

1. Which one to purchase First ? Speakers or Amplifiers.

2. In case Amplifiers is my first purchase - Should i look for more powerful(RMS).
For instance, Marantz 5005 spec says 40WPC. Some dealers suggesting Yamaha RS202 (100 watts x 2 channel.)
Confusion, More power mean more pricey , But how come Yamaha cost lesser than Marantz 5005.


3. Speaker Bass Driver size - 4 inch, 5.25 inch or 6.5 inch. - For small bedroom (10X10) , What will be the optimal Bass driver size to be selected.


4. Amplifier - Speaker matching query :

Finally how to decide on the Amplifier - Speaker power handling in terms of RMS (WPC).
For instance, My scansonic Amplifier (18WPC ) is running S4 speakers (10-100W ,Sensitivity 86DB),
Does that mean my Amplifier is still under powered. ( Just pumping 18W ,where has it requires 10-100W)

If i use more power amplifiers ,what is the significant difference i can hear from my speakers.

Please share your expert views/comments to help me understand Audio basics.

 

[elangoas]

for small room (10x12 feet) :

Should i look for more powerful(RMS).
For instance, Marantz 5005 spec says 40WPC.

Assuming you have a 86dB speakers, 40WPC is more than enough as you would anyway sit in the middle of the room.. The ideal SPL for listening would be achieved with 40WPC amplifier..

What will be the optimal Bass driver size to be selected.

Bigger the bass driver and bigger the cabinet, more lows should be possible.. You shouldn't worry abt the bass driver.. If that is a concern you can get a subwoofer.. Since, it is a bedroom, ideal subwoofer placement may not be possible..

If i use more power amplifiers ,what is the significant difference i can hear from my speakers.

If a 40WPC amplifier can produce the desired SPL, then a power amplifier may not add much.. The bass driver in the speaker may stand to gain some power from additional power amplifier..

You should be fine with a 40WPC amplifier & any speaker you choose around the efficiency you have mentioned..

 

[kvandhi]

Bigger the bass driver and bigger the cabinet, more lows should be possible.. You shouldn't worry abt the bass driver.. If that is a concern you can get a subwoofer.. Since, it is a bedroom, ideal subwoofer placement may not be possible

My understanding is if bigger Bass driver and Cabinet, it may be overkill for a small room and too much bass. Correct me if i am wrong.

Assuming you have a 86dB speakers, 40WPC is more than enough as you would anyway sit in the middle of the room.. The ideal SPL for listening would be achieved with 40WPC amplifier

When speaker spec mention 10-100W power handling, when you say 40WPC is ok, then still can i say Marantz 5005 amp is not sufficient to drive the full potential of 100W. Some clarity needed. Because some of the amps with Just 18WPC is running the same speakers. For normal listening ,how much power is required to pump from the Amplifier.

 

[elangoas]

My understanding is if bigger Bass driver and Cabinet, it may be overkill for a small room and too much bass.

Nope.. The speaker might produce some more lower end..

When speaker spec mention 10-100W power handling, when you say 40WPC is ok, then still can i say Marantz 5005 amp is not sufficient to drive the full potential of 100W. Some clarity needed. Because some of the amps with Just 18WPC is running the same speakers. For normal listening ,how much power is required to pump from the Amplifier.

Most common listening levels is between 60 ~ 65dB on AVR depending on how big/small the room is.. So same SPL should apply to stereo amplifiers as well..

Here is a rough calculation from my understanding..

If a speaker is capable is 86 dB efficient, then two speakers would produce 86 + 3 dB = 89 dB SPL.. This is with 1WPC at a distance of 3feet from the speaker..

Assuming you will sit, 6 - 7 feet away from speaker, there is a loss SPL every feet away from speaker.. Roughly -7db from 89 dB = 82 dB.. Even with 1WPC, it meets the reqd SPL in your listening position.. So 40WPC is more than enough..

When speaker spec mention 10-100W power handling

It means the speakers can handle as little as 10W till 100W.. It doesn't mean that you will need 100WPC amplifier for that speaker.. This maximum power handling would translate to maximum SPL handling of the speaker..

 

[kvandhi]

It means the speakers can handle as little as 10W till 100W.. It doesn't mean that you will need 100WPC amplifier for that speaker.. This maximum power handling would translate to maximum SPL handling of the speaker..

Thanks Elango for the clear explanation. When i am asking the same query to one of the AV store . They said , Marantz 5005 is still under power, and I need to go for Yamaha RS202 (100WPC) to drive my 86DB speaker at ease.

As per your explanation, Even i do not need 40WPC , may be 18WPC amplifier is sufficient to produce required SPL for my small room. It helps to save bit money . Normally i mostly listen at 10 clock position and did not like louder.

 

[kvandhi]

How to decide the amplifier power based on the Sensitivity of the speakers. For instance

Wharfedale 11.0
Sensitivity 85dB
Recommended amp power 15-75W.

Wharfedale Diamond 220
Sensitivity 86dB
Recommended amp power 25-100W

Both are 8 ohms speakers , if the sensitivity higher than,recommended watts must be lower. But here its some how opposite.

 

[heliumflight]

I have some basic queries regarding Stereo setup for small room (10x12 feet) :

1. Which one to purchase First ? Speakers or Amplifiers.

2. In case Amplifiers is my first purchase - Should i look for more powerful(RMS).
For instance, Marantz 5005 spec says 40WPC. Some dealers suggesting Yamaha RS202 (100 watts x 2 channel.)
Confusion, More power mean more pricey , But how come Yamaha cost lesser than Marantz 5005.


3. Speaker Bass Driver size - 4 inch, 5.25 inch or 6.5 inch. - For small bedroom (10X10) , What will be the optimal Bass driver size to be selected.


4. Amplifier - Speaker matching query :

Finally how to decide on the Amplifier - Speaker power handling in terms of RMS (WPC).
For instance, My scansonic Amplifier (18WPC ) is running S4 speakers (10-100W ,Sensitivity 86DB),
Does that mean my Amplifier is still under powered. ( Just pumping 18W ,where has it requires 10-100W)

If i use more power amplifiers ,what is the significant difference i can hear from my speakers.

Please share your expert views/comments to help me understand Audio basics.

Please be clear what you want Hifi or HT?

 

[kvandhi]

Please be clear what you want Hifi or HT?

Hi-fi only. Not at all interested in HT

 

[heliumflight]

Your room size is stated above. What Musical genres do you listen to?

 

[kvandhi]

Your room size is stated above. What Musical genres do you listen to?

Country , folk rock, jazz, not heavy bass related.

 

[arunkvivek]

Thanks Elango for the clear explanation. When i am asking the same query to one of the AV store . They said , Marantz 5005 is still under power, and I need to go for Yamaha RS202 (100WPC) to drive my 86DB speaker at ease.

As per your explanation, Even i do not need 40WPC , may be 18WPC amplifier is sufficient to produce required SPL for my small room. It helps to save bit money . Normally i mostly listen at 10 clock position and did not like louder.

There is something called headroom which is like additional capacity to provide current when the dynamics of music demand a surge in current. This is where additional wattage contributes. I do not understand the technicality but my experience is as follows:
An Amp with good head-room will not distort music when the volume knob is turned up. On the other hand, a weaker amp would be shouty when volume is turned up. That is why you need to have good wattage when you are using speakers with sensitivity less than 87db. A 40 watt amp would be able to provide the necessary current but the speakers would not sound as musical as it can (when paired with powerful amplifiers).

A 65 watter tube hybrid sounded clear than SMSL Q5 Pro in my case at all volumes (lower/higher). If possible go for higher capable amplifier than as price for wattage is cheaper. Settling for lesser amplifier will push you to sooner upgrades.

 

[kvandhi]

A 40 watt amp would be able to provide the necessary current but the speakers would not sound as musical as it can (when paired with powerful amplifiers).

If my listening preference is not so louder and volume knob will remain 10 o clock position, Hope 40 watts amp fine for me. Correct me , i am not sure what is musical , most of FMs are quoted in our forum.

A 65 watter tube hybrid sounded clear than SMSL Q5 Pro in my case at all volumes (lower/higher). If possible go for higher capable amplifier than as price for wattage is cheaper. Settling for lesser amplifier will push you to sooner upgrades.

I am happy to switch over Tube amp, but only the cost is beyond budget. So atleast Hybrid amps may be within budget, only constraint is less power.

 

[jls001]

Don't worry too much about the wattage. For your given room size, 40W will play obnoxiously loud (if you want to).

Hear both the Marantz and Yamaha and you will surely like one or the other more. Don't go by what the sales guy tells you. Just consider it a friendly guidance. Let your ears decide.

 

[kvandhi]

Don't worry too much about the wattage. For your given room size, 40W will play obnoxiously loud (if you want to).

Hear both the Marantz and Yamaha and you will surely like one or the other more. Don't go by what the sales guy tells you. Just consider it a friendly guidance. Let your ears decide.

Thanks. Finally ears and budget decides purchase

 

[thampi]

marantz 6006 is the best option

 

[ssf]

I was using a Topping TP60 Tripath TA2022 amp with my Quad 12l2. Although rated at 50 Watts, I think the Topping is around 20 watts at desirable distortion levels. I was using this amp for more than a year and at medium listening levels, this 20 watt amp was enough to to make beautiful music from the Quads.

 

[kvandhi]

Although rated at 50 Watts, I think the Topping is around 20 watts at desirable distortion levels

My understanding , Amp is not producing entire stated watts per channel as per Spec. Is it common for all the Amplifiers.

 

[ssf]

My understanding , Amp is not producing entire stated watts per channel as per Spec. Is it common for all the Amplifiers.

Topping TP60 Power output: 2 x 80W (into 4Ω @ 10% THD), 2 x 48W (into 4Ω @ 0.1% THD), 2 x 50W (into 8Ω @ 10% THD), 2 x 27W (into 8Ω @ 0.1% THD)

As you can see from the above, 2 x 50 w 8 ohms is at 10% THD. That is a very high distortion figure. The correct output of the amp is 2 x 27W @0.1% THD 8 Ohms.

The Marantz PM 5005 is 40W 8 Ohms @ 0.05% THD. So it is indeed a 40W amp. Sellers advertise specs very differently. One has to read through it all carefully.

 

[kvandhi]

Topping TP60 Power output: 2 x 80W (into 4Ω @ 10% THD), 2 x 48W (into 4Ω @ 0.1% THD), 2 x 50W (into 8Ω @ 10% THD), 2 x 27W (into 8Ω @ 0.1% THD)

As you can see from the above, 2 x 50 w 8 ohms is at 10% THD. That is a very high distortion figure. The correct output of the amp is 2 x 27W @0.1% THD 8 Ohms.

The Marantz PM 5005 is 40W 8 Ohms @ 0.05% THD. So it is indeed a 40W amp. Sellers advertise specs very differently. One has to read through it all carefully.

Thanks SSF.

Yamaha RS202 - 100W 8 ohms, 40 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.2% THD . So can i say this an 100W amp.

Why Marantz is not producing same 100W amp for the price range of Yamaha. Just curious to know.

 

[ssf]

I was browsing the net for some details of this amp and this is what I found. The manual found at

Manual at accessories4less.com gives an idea of the specs of this amp. (Page 23)

100 W at 40 hz - 20 khz 0.2% THD

THD 20hz to 20 khz 50W @ 8ohm - 0.2%

See how the figures can be misleading. Nonetheless, 50 W should be more than enough for your requirement.