Building 2 way speakers, crossovers, tweeters

[sudhirbhosale]

Dear all
Planning to build 2 way FS without crossover i.e. would use capacitor to connect tweeters.

Came across following questions:
1. What are pros & cons of tweeter with very low / very high Fs (resonance freqency)?
2. For 2-way build: If i don't use crossover, and connect tweeter with capacitor then would it be right statement that, "since there is no cross over, there would be less processing of signals hence sound purity maintained well?"
3. What are pros & cons of using/not-using cross overs? what i would loose if i dont use crossover?

4. Which tweeter can i shortlist among below?
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - SR10DT
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - LR10DT
Peerless - 26mm Silk Dome Tweeter - TL26SG

Any other choice than Peerless at smilar price and can be ordered online?

 

[GeorgeO]

If yours is a 2 way without a crossover how would you send the HF signals to the tweeter and LF to the mid? The only way you can do it without a crossover is to use a single full range driver.

 

[Deleted member 45006]

He meant adding a capacitor to send the highs to the tweeter with parallel conncetion with a directly connected to speaker line woofer , that works, mean he now has a basic crossover for his highs theoretically, and woofer gets all sorts of sounds, and since woofer is a woofer, it would sound more bassy, with some feeble treble coming out of it, I hope

 

[ukjeyaraj]

I have seen similar work in some philips speakers (not high end though). It had just a capacitor connected to its tweeter and no other cross-over network.

 

[sarith]

Dear all
Planning to build 2 way FS without crossover i.e. would use capacitor to connect tweeters.

Came across following questions:
1. What are pros & cons of tweeter with very low / very high Fs (resonance freqency)?
2. For 2-way build: If i don't use crossover, and connect tweeter with capacitor then would it be right statement that, "since there is no cross over, there would be less processing of signals hence sound purity maintained well?"
3. What are pros & cons of using/not-using cross overs? what i would loose if i dont use crossover?

4. Which tweeter can i shortlist among below?
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - SR10DT
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - LR10DT
Peerless - 26mm Silk Dome Tweeter - TL26SG

Any other choice than Peerless at smilar price and can be ordered online?

I have used with and without Xover speaker systems and it depends on the type of speaker you use. Most of the time full range speakers don't need a crossover network. Crossover network is a complex thing.
I make my own crossover and for each type of driver, you need to make sufficient changes in Xover layout.

Having a Xover or not also depends on what you want to hear from your speaker. Xover can be used to make a woofer produce only mid-LF to LF. or it can be used to cut off LF and emphasis more on mid frq.

I have not used any of the peerless tweeters, but I have used both fabric and silk dome and I like silk a bit more. (I sometimes use more than one type of tweeter in a cabinet)

 

[asliarun]

A question to the experts and DIYers (and I might have even asked it before but can't remember). To the OP's point, isn't it possible to carefully pick a woofer and tweeter such that the frequency response of the woofer rolls off at a point where the tweeter's frequency response picks up? I guess you would also have to pick a woofer that is more sensitive than the tweeter to account for baffle step loss. This would allow one to feed the entire signal to both drivers without bothering about crossovers or BSC electronics at all (hypothetically speaking of course).

Is this possible from a theoretical point of view?

More importantly, is it possible from a practical point of view - has this worked for anyone, and are there any such viable combinations of drivers?

 

[sarith]

A question to the experts and DIYers (and I might have even asked it before but can't remember). To the OP's point, isn't it possible to carefully pick a woofer and tweeter such that the frequency response of the woofer rolls off at a point where the tweeter's frequency response picks up? I guess you would also have to pick a woofer that is more sensitive than the tweeter to account for baffle step loss. This would allow one to feed the entire signal to both drivers without bothering about crossovers or BSC electronics at all (hypothetically speaking of course).

Is this possible from a theoretical point of view?

More importantly, is it possible from a practical point of view - has this worked for anyone, and are there any such viable combinations of drivers?

You can use active crossover with independent amps for Tweeter and woofer. LF and HF active crossovers + individual amps, Like a 50W amp for tweeter and 100W amp for woofer. Active crossover acts more like individual pre-amps with individual tasks

 

[pranavkumar]

Dear all
Planning to build 2 way FS without crossover i.e. would use capacitor to connect tweeters.

Came across following questions:
1. What are pros & cons of tweeter with very low / very high Fs (resonance freqency)?
2. For 2-way build: If i don't use crossover, and connect tweeter with capacitor then would it be right statement that, "since there is no cross over, there would be less processing of signals hence sound purity maintained well?"
3. What are pros & cons of using/not-using cross overs? what i would loose if i dont use crossover?

4. Which tweeter can i shortlist among below?
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - SR10DT
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - LR10DT
Peerless - 26mm Silk Dome Tweeter - TL26SG

Any other choice than Peerless at smilar price and can be ordered online?

A capacitor in itself serves the purpose of a crossover. A crossover is basically a set of filters: low pass, band pass or high pass.
A simple series capacitor is a First Order High Pass filter.

You are partly right in saying that using just a cap would cause less signal processing, but then you'd be feeding a particular driver, say the mid bass driver, frequencies that it cannot handle.. and hence produce distortion and overlay b/w the tweeter and the mid bass. you wouldn't want to do that.

Another important factor is time delay or phase. a crossover also takes care of that. a crossover has attenuating circuits required to attenuate the HFs or the LFs as required to an optimum level. Crossover also takes care of the impedances.

As in the case of a single full range driver systems, a network also known as the Step Baffle Correction network is commonly put in place of the crossover.

I would suggest, make a first order low pass filter for the mid bass driver, its just an inductor of appropriate value and power rating.

hope this helps !

 

[ukjeyaraj]

Today I opened a Tannoy M3 floor stander and found that it simply has one capacitor right in the speaker terminal connected to the tweeter. There no other component inside. And this speaker sings quiet beautiful.

 

[kapvin]

A question to the experts and DIYers (and I might have even asked it before but can't remember). To the OP's point, isn't it possible to carefully pick a woofer and tweeter such that the frequency response of the woofer rolls off at a point where the tweeter's frequency response picks up? I guess you would also have to pick a woofer that is more sensitive than the tweeter to account for baffle step loss. This would allow one to feed the entire signal to both drivers without bothering about crossovers or BSC electronics at all (hypothetically speaking of course).

Is this possible from a theoretical point of view?

More importantly, is it possible from a practical point of view - has this worked for anyone, and are there any such viable combinations of drivers?

possible theoritically as well as practically. and especially if you are listening off axis as the beaming of the woofer will create a stronger rolloff off axis

however, you are entirely depend on the natural rolloff of the woofer and therfore any breakups of the woofer cone at higher frequency would be audible as harshness. so the woofer needs to be chosen carefully.

 

[koushik]

Today I opened a Tannoy M3 floor stander and found that it simply has one capacitor right in the speaker terminal connected to the tweeter. There no other component inside. And this speaker sings quiet beautiful.

I don't know which model you have but here is something I found on ebay.

Tannoy Mercury M3 Crossover | eBay

And it has hell lot of component in there ...

 

[ukjeyaraj]

Opened and checked again. Looks to be reworked. Remaingin components are down in the box, while only one capacitor is up in the terminal. Thanks.

 

[tcpip]

Planning to build 2 way FS without crossover i.e. would use capacitor to connect tweeters.

Can you please share with us why you want to design something like this?

1. What are pros & cons of tweeter with very low / very high Fs (resonance freqency)?

Depends entirely on the crossover and the midbass driver. There are no generic pros or cons of any type of driver -- all pros and cons are in context.

2. For 2-way build: If i don't use crossover, and connect tweeter with capacitor then would it be right statement that, "since there is no cross over, there would be less processing of signals hence sound purity maintained well?"

This would be an incorrect statement, if you believe the laws of physics. In general, a zero-crossover or a first-order crossover (e.g. just a cap on the tweeter) would cause more problems than those caused by a complex crossover with lots of parts but with careful measurement and design. However, if you believe some of the subjective purist beliefs which some audiophiles believe, you may believe in the sound-purity theory.

3. What are pros & cons of using/not-using cross overs? what i would loose if i dont use crossover?

You would lose sound quality, essentially.

A (carefully designed) crossover is an essential component in almost all speakers because it extracts good performance from drivers which would otherwise sound anything from so-so to horrible.

You cannot build a car with just a body and an engine -- you need a clutch system and a gearbox. Otherwise, the engine would find itself running either too fast or too slow most of the time. The changing of gears allows the engine to remain within its good-performance band and power-output band and still move the car at all sorts of speeds from very slow to very fast. Similarly, a crossover allows drivers which would otherwise be unusable in the raw to operate in their good-performance bands and deliver an accurate reproduction on the whole.

Some, very very few speaker drivers are designed to work acceptably well without crossovers. I have owned and listened to one of the best such drivers: the Jordan JX92S. And I believe even the Jordan would benefit from some more drivers and a crossover. Some people who use the JX92S full-range are willing to live with the sound compromises; I am not. It's a matter of choice. (Some people are okay to have a gearless car which can only move at speeds of 0-20 Km/hr. I am not okay with such a car.)

4. Which tweeter can i shortlist among below?
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - SR10DT
Peerless - 25mm Fabric Dome Tweeter - LR10DT
Peerless - 26mm Silk Dome Tweeter - TL26SG

I suggest you don't jump the gun. You will need to decide context first. However, i am not aware of any situation where I would use the LR10DT -- I will always choose the SR10DT instead (the larger magnet model).

 

[SIDEWINDER18X]

Dear all
Planning to build 2 way FS without crossover i.e. would use capacitor to connect tweeters.
2. For 2-way build: If i don't use crossover, and connect tweeter with capacitor then would it be right statement that, "since there is no cross over, there would be less processing of signals hence sound purity maintained well?"

Single capacitor for the tweeter is a cost effective simplified 6db/octave arrangement. The roll over is not so steep. If the tweeter is not designed for upper mid-range, it can distort and even there are chances of the tweeter getting damaged at loud levels. Go for at-least a 12db/octave arrangement, where a parallel inductor
is wired across the tweeter (preferred air core) after the capacitor.
You will find much better response out of your tweeters.

 

[BellTheHell]

Anyone can help me to connect this crossover with tweeter and 2 way speaker with 2 socket?


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