Building a Stereo PC source for Emotiva and Paradigm

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Hi guys,
I have ordered the UPA-2 power amp from Emotiva online. Expect to get it by second week of Aug. Am inclined to pair it with Paradigm Monitor 7 or 9 or Studio 60 (the monitors appear more VFM). This leaves the pre-amp and source. This is where I need some expert help. I'm now tight on budget and unable to spend on CDP and Preamp separates. So was thinking of putting together a PC for 2-channel solution using the Xonar Essence ST.
The trouble is that the input voltage levels for the Emotiva power amp are not mentioned in the manual. The Xonar has 2 Vrms max at line level. If I connect the line outs to the power amp, will the volume run at max all the time? Can I connect the headphone out of the Xonar to the input of the amp? If I go the way of PC + Xonar + power amp, would it be sufficient? I'd really like to avoid a preamp if I can right now.
I won't play movies on this PC, only stereo music. What lowest configuration can I use for the hardware to save money? If I must go for a preamp, what should I buy within 20K?
Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[harryanthony]

congrats on your purchase... how much did you pay for the UPA-2 and how did you get it shipped?

do the upa-2 need a pre-amp at some stage?

 

[magma]

you can coonect the xonar ST diectly to the power amp using the RCA outs
the pC acts as your premap
and volume control is from the Xonar software
you can have the xonar volume at max and control the volume from your media player ( i.e Cplay or Foobar)

ROC can comment on this since i think he uses a similar setup using the Xonar STX

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Thanks guys,
@harryanhony, I am yet to receive the amp, it'll be in stock this week and dispatched then. I just wrote them an email and received the quote. There was a sale on at the time so I got it for 269 $ (regular price is 299$) and with shipping, the total is 430 $. I paid ~ 20,500 Rs. through paypal. When FedEx ships the package, customs would be an extra (expect it to be around 6-7K, will post exact amount when I receive the amp).

@magma, thank you, I'm much relieved. By ROC, do you mean reignofchaos? Will write a PM to him.

 

[audiodelic]

UPA-2 is a damn vfm and performance amplifier. People are raving about it on the emo forums. I plan to buy one also. Please keep us updated once your get it. how much they charge customs etc. We also expect a detailed review

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Hey guys,
Got the Emo UPA-2 amp yesterday and the Essence ST today. Will post the details and pics of the amp to show the build quality for expert opinion (it's Made in China, designed in US, hrmpf!) but I doubt if HFV members are interested, this thread has been dead almost since I created it.
PS- Review not possible right now though, since I'm yet to get the speakers.

 

[iaudio]

Congrats! Guess you are already on the speaker hunt.

 

[maniac_2004]

Hey guys,
Got the Emo UPA-2 amp yesterday and the Essence ST today. Will post the details and pics of the amp to show the build quality for expert opinion (it's Made in China, designed in US, hrmpf!) but I doubt if HFV members are interested, this thread has been dead almost since I created it.
PS- Review not possible right now though, since I'm yet to get the speakers.

how much was total damages btw for the UPA-2 .. u hv set me thinking .. could you also let me know how much time for delivery ? Also the upa-2 is listed at 349$ ?where was this sale btw ?

 

[avidyarthy]

A lil stupid question ..... but, here goes ...

My AVR has zone 2, where, currently is a Norge 1000 amp. Can I go for the UPA 2 as a replacement for the Norge? OR do I need to set up a pre-amp too prior to the UPA 2?

Unclear, whether the zone 2 outlet has enough 'beef' to directly go into a power amp such as the UPA.

Not that I would carry out the above immediately ... since quite satisfied with the Norge. Maybe ...... after some time ...

 

[avidyarthy]

Giving it a thought .... yeah, obviously have to. Otherwise how else would I control the volume .....? A pre-amp would be necessary.

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Congrats! Guess you are already on the speaker hunt.

Thanks. Love the picture in your handle, totally engulfed in music...?
The speaker hunt is near done. Just waiting to get them. Paradigm it is. Either the Monitor 7/9 or the Studio 60.

how much was total damages btw for the UPA-2 .. u hv set me thinking .. could you also let me know how much time for delivery ? Also the upa-2 is listed at 349$ ?where was this sale btw ?

The amp was on 4th July sale on emotiva.com for $269 (the non-sale price being $299 that time. Don't know if it increased to $349 now). I paid ~430 including shipment by FedEx Economy. If you write them, they give you a quote. Another sale might turn up at the next US festival, Halloween maybe? There are others who got it through BorderLinx but it needs a Citibank credit card which I don't have. Payment was made through Paypal and cost me ~20,500 Rs. Then they shipped it to me and FedEx gets it cleared in customs for you. On delivery, I paid for customs and Octroi which were ~Rs. 6350 and 1150 respectively. All in all, damages Rs. 28,000. Delivery is subject to availability. The sale was on till 15 July, I confirmed my order. They said that they'll reserve the piece at sale price and ask me to pay when it was in stock. Made the payment around 28 July and it was shipped on 05 Aug. Delivered to my house on 11 Aug. Effort involved: Internet research, a few e-mails, timely strikes of mouse and phone calls to FedEx here. Anticipated pleasure: Unlimited!

A lil stupid question ..... but, here goes ...

My AVR has zone 2, where, currently is a Norge 1000 amp. Can I go for the UPA 2 as a replacement for the Norge? OR do I need to set up a pre-amp too prior to the UPA 2?

Unclear, whether the zone 2 outlet has enough 'beef' to directly go into a power amp such as the UPA.

Not that I would carry out the above immediately ... since quite satisfied with the Norge. Maybe ...... after some time ...

If you have an AVR with multi-zone, chances are it will have a pre-out too. If so, you just feed the pre-out to the power amp and voila. It will have enough beef to power it, no pre-amp required. But if you have a Norge 1000, keep it. I put one at my father's place and is good enough for a zone 2 IMO. You can control volume and bass, treble or DSP through the AV receiver.
I got the Xonar Essence ST to power the UPA-2 with, through my PC. Emotiva confirmed that the UPA-2 can reach max power with an input of 1.25 Vrms whereas the Xonar Essence ST can supply upto 2 Vrms in Lineout. That's very pleasant news for me.
BTW, why I got the Essence ST over the STX: The ST has a CS 2000 circuit for jitter correction which, when supplied with music on HDD or SSD, would make it as good as a dedicated CDP. It's not there on the STX, apparently. This is from the review on guru3d.com.

Will post more as I experiment further with the setup.

 

[audiodelic]

awaiting your review on the emo upa2.

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

Hey guys,
I tested my amp with Monitor-7s and Diamond-10.5 as well as 9.2. The amp output was checked with a Dune BDP without a pre-amp (surprised with the good output even w/o pre-amp) and then with pre-out from a big Denon AVR (forget model, very hefty). A/B testing with the same Denon feeding speakers by itself.
I am very happy.
The amp is not laid back (the Denon AVR was).
It is powerful. Hence effortless.
Very detailed all across the range (I missed some high freq details on the Denon).
May not do well with other bright components, especially bright speakers.
No bones about a high grade component here, you cannot bi-wire, no A/B zones (though there is a gain control at the back so will be able to play without a pre-amp). Build quality is Chinese (some screws not aligning at dead center of the screw niche) but acceptable. Got what I paid for and then some more.
I used a few CDs for assessment: Waltzes of Chopin played by Ashkenazy. Mid range finesse and mid to high cross over integration is instantly highlighted in this recording. Tabla recital by Alla Rakha and Zakir Hussain(Teental, 1971 recording. Despite being so old, this is one of the few recordings in which I feel that the Maestros are sitting next to me w/o a mic/amp etc and playing). This one is good for detecting mid-bass and mid range anomalies. Tabla is a fine percussion instrument and if you know its natural sound and dynamics (since I can play Tabla myself ), it's a great initial check for a system. -Santoor recital by Pt Shivkumar Sharma with Zakir Hussain on Tabla (live concert in Bageshree raag). Santoor is another instrument to check balance in the midrange. The defects of the live recording make it a difficult job for a system. For bass response, I used Nickelback's 'Silver side up'. The rasp of vocals, heavily distorted and overdriven guitars and slamming drums make for a fantastic test, especially 'This is how you remind me' and 'Too Bad'. Laid back speakers will take out the in-your-faceness of the songs and bright speakers will pierce the eardrums in seconds. For small odd sounds and detailing, I used Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours'. This is one of my all-time favs and for its time (1979), a major achievement. A bright speaker will simply kill this album (the dreamy sound gets very harsh) and a warm one will not do for the teeny weeny small sounds floating between pauses. It's an all rounder for checking everything from bass to mids to highs to punch to detailing to voice. Just amazing. And the music itself is never tiring for me. In my session, the Denon ate up some of the highs and pushed the mids back a little. The Emotiva made me hear some things I never heard before (or maybe I imagined so, hehe) and was a little close to being 'labeled' forward by me (I actually like warmer side of neutral than brighter). This became apparent when I listened to the diamonds. The sound became very bright instantly. With the Monitors, it remained under control. Wanted to test a laid back speaker but wasn't available. For bass extension and control, I like to listen to 'Iron Hand' from Dire Straits' 'On Every Street' but I misplaced the CD somewhere a while back. There is massive cloud rumble in the middle of that song to deal a death blow to any speaker with weakness in bass.
This is all very subjective, alas. Besides, am not too sure about my ability to discern between the fine differences.
Since I'm yet to get the speakers, I got the Senn HD 428 to pair the Xonar Essence ST (was using a Philips gifted by good people of AVMax mag for one letter of the month a few years back , sadly the cord broke). 1. So far, am not able to hear anything vastly improved but it makes mp3s unbearable now. The sound has become warmer and maybe a little better over the onboard audio (Intel HD on Asus P5KPL-CM). 2. Surprisingly, the SC's output in headphones is quite a bit less than the onboard audio output in sheer volume. Are these two things common? Am I doing something wrong? I read about ASIO drivers on other threads, isn't this included in the Essence ST as native or do I need to install separately? Please help guys, don't want to begin thinking that I made an expensive mistake here.

 

[gryph0n]

Re: Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

Hey guys,
...
This is all very subjective, alas. Besides, am not too sure about my ability to discern between the fine differences.
Since I'm yet to get the speakers, I got the Senn HD 428 to pair the Xonar Essence ST (was using a Philips gifted by good people of AVMax mag for one letter of the month a few years back , sadly the cord broke). 1. So far, am not able to hear anything vastly improved but it makes mp3s unbearable now. The sound has become warmer and maybe a little better over the onboard audio (Intel HD on Asus P5KPL-CM). 2. Surprisingly, the SC's output in headphones is quite a bit less than the onboard audio output in sheer volume. Are these two things common? Am I doing something wrong? I read about ASIO drivers on other threads, isn't this included in the Essence ST as native or do I need to install separately? Please help guys, don't want to begin thinking that I made an expensive mistake here.

8k for Essense ST an expensive mistake?? No way dude!!!
In audiophile terms, 8k is just chump change. The Essense ST/STX are the best SoundCards at their price range.

Although the ASIO driver would get installed when you install the SoundCard drivers, they are not automatically used. Your S/W player has to support ASIO output, and even then you will have to probably manually select ASIO output.

If you are not already using it, I'd suggest using the Foobar2000 player, with ASIO plug-in to allow it to output to ASIO. With the plug-in installed, you have to go to the "Output" section of preferences, and select the ASIO device.

FYI, with Windows Visa & Windows 7, Microsoft has introduced a new Sound Driver Architecture. I believe its called WASAPI, and offers similar functionality as ASIO. Again to use WASAPI with Foobar2000, i think you might have to download the WASAPI plugin.

With WinXP, you can only use ASIO.

By the way, about the volume : Are you sure the HeadPhone impedance is correctly setup in the Asus Control Panel ?

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Re: Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

8k for Essense ST an expensive mistake?? No way dude!!!
In audiophile terms, 8k is just chump change. The Essense ST/STX are the best SoundCards at their price range.

Although the ASIO driver would get installed when you install the SoundCard drivers, they are not automatically used. Your S/W player has to support ASIO output, and even then you will have to probably manually select ASIO output.

If you are not already using it, I'd suggest using the Foobar2000 player, with ASIO plug-in to allow it to output to ASIO. With the plug-in installed, you have to go to the "Output" section of preferences, and select the ASIO device.

FYI, with Windows Visa & Windows 7, Microsoft has introduced a new Sound Driver Architecture. I believe its called WASAPI, and offers similar functionality as ASIO. Again to use WASAPI with Foobar2000, i think you might have to download the WASAPI plugin.

With WinXP, you can only use ASIO.

By the way, about the volume : Are you sure the HeadPhone impedance is correctly setup in the Asus Control Panel ?

Hey thanks a ton and then ten tons again man. I thought that selecting Asus Xonar in output would do it. But I reinstalled foobar2000 with asio plugin and now it's out of the world. Truly, it's just opened up the sound to a level that I had thought I might give up on previously. And the ASIO silences the CD drive sound completely which was so annoying till now, like some motor whirring on and off all the time in your ears. The sound is warm and delicious, I could just eat it till I burst, hehe. Wholeheartedly recommend the Essence ST to everyone The headphones could still be better in low bass region though (lack some grunt there), am happy enough for now.

 

[audiodelic]

Re: Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

Hey thanks a ton and then ten tons again man. I thought that selecting Asus Xonar in output would do it. But I reinstalled foobar2000 with asio plugin and now it's out of the world. Truly, it's just opened up the sound to a level that I had thought I might give up on previously. And the ASIO silences the CD drive sound completely which was so annoying till now, like some motor whirring on and off all the time in your ears. The sound is warm and delicious, I could just eat it till I burst, hehe. Wholeheartedly recommend the Essence ST to everyone The headphones could still be better in low bass region though (lack some grunt there), am happy enough for now.

Try XMPLAY to my ears it sounds better than foobar. I used to use foobar till i found XMPLAY and now just cant use foobar anymore as i hear a clear difference.

Practically both software's should sound same but im sure they dont if someone else could do a/b comparison between both players, both have wasapi.

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

Re: Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

@audiodelic:
How exactly does it sound different to you, I mean, can you tell me in which tracks you noticed the difference and which particular portion? I listened casually to a few tracks but couldn't really tell. Whenever I thought I heard something different in XMPlay, I switched to foobar2K immed and heard the same thing there. So all I ended up doing was discover new nuances in those tracks which I previously didn't, but couldn't pinpoint a thing to say that both players were different. I listened to Talkin' bout a Revolution from Tracy Chapman's self titled album in flac and then tchaikovsky's 5th conducted by karajan, 4th movement in APE. Then I switched to Windows Media Player just for the heck of it and not much difference there too. I'm getting a dumb feeling here. Your views please. P.S.- AM using only ASIO (not WASAPI) since am on XP.

 

[thevortex]

Re: Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

Try XMPLAY to my ears it sounds better than foobar. I used to use foobar till i found XMPLAY and now just cant use foobar anymore as i hear a clear difference.

Practically both software's should sound same but im sure they dont if someone else could do a/b comparison between both players, both have wasapi.

If there are no equalizers in action, then these players should sound the same given that they are using the same output engine (WASAPI).

Do try out cPlay. I am sure you would hear a difference in sound.

 

[audiodelic]

Re: Emotiva UPA-2 and Xonar Essence ST

@hrd.hrishikesh:
I thought the music via xmplay sounded fuller more forward mids. The separation between bassline and mids was more prominent.

Maybe it was my perception will a/b test both players again.

Im using Dell Studio 17 with windows 7 via usb to Beresford Caiman. Both players are using direct wasapi output.

 

[hrd.hrishikesh]

@thevortex: ok. will try cPlay today.
@audiodelic: Do post your findings after testing. Also let us know which tracks you are using so that I can do the same and see if the results match.