Can you get a Dual Mono sound by using two AVRs?

[rwnano]

Is it possible to achieve a dual mono like sound by using two AVRs?

Like - by - using a left channel out from the DAC to one AVR - and then only connecting one speaker to that AVR.

Right channel to the other AVR and then connecting the right speaker to that AVR.

Transformer will have to work less to power each channel - being connected to only 1 speaker.

thoughts?

 

[sandeepmohan]

No.
For the effort and logistical nightmare this setup would be, you'd rather buy two dual mono amplifiers and get done with it.
Who cares if the transformer needs to work hard. It is also designed to take a certain amount of load.

 

[availlyrics]

Yes & No
Pros-
Easy for bi-amping, great ch. isolation
Cons-
The AVR should be exactly same . Double cost/ Trouble/ Power consumption/ Space/ etc. Class AB only, as Class D amp output can't be left floating
Concl. - Better to avoid it, buy a proper dual mono

 

[fLUX]

Dual mono is meant to have only channel hosted on each of the mono side unless there is a bridge implementation which allows you to further connect the two mono.

Even if you buy 2 AVRs they would not be dual mono as the other channels also are part of the same implementation. At max you will only get more watts as its a single channel driven , so not really worth the effort & cost.

 

[IndianEars]

Is it possible to achieve a dual mono like sound by using two AVRs?

Like - by - using a left channel out from the DAC to one AVR - and then only connecting one speaker to that AVR.

Right channel to the other AVR and then connecting the right speaker to that AVR.

Transformer will have to work less to power each channel - being connected to only 1 speaker.

thoughts?

Can you please clarify what you mean but "Dual Mono" ?

The scheme that you have outlined, reproduces both the left and right channels and therefore is stereo not mono sound reproduction.

 

[rwnano]

I mean - like two monoblock amplifiers ? Like the fosi V3 dual mono?

in the above scheme : -
1. Take the RED RCA cable to AVR 1
2. Take the WHITE RCA cable output to AVR 2

from the DAC.
and Run only 1 FRONT speaker from each AVR

Yes & No
Pros-
Easy for bi-amping, great ch. isolation
Cons-
The AVR should be exactly same . Double cost/ Trouble/ Power consumption/ Space/ etc. Class AB only, as Class D amp output can't be left floating
Concl. - Better to avoid it, buy a proper dual mono

Paul is saying "go for it - and it should be a fun experiment"

 

[mbhangui]

Is it possible to achieve a dual mono like sound by using two AVRs?

Like - by - using a left channel out from the DAC to one AVR - and then only connecting one speaker to that AVR.

Right channel to the other AVR and then connecting the right speaker to that AVR.

Transformer will have to work less to power each channel - being connected to only 1 speaker.

thoughts?

It will work. But the right channel of the left AVR will be wasting little bit electricity without producing any music. Similarly the left channel of the right channel will be wasting electricity. Also both AVR needs to be setup exactly the same and have to be of the same model.

But you can't use YPAO and other automated calibration programs of the AVR. The main reason for using AVR (at least that is why I use avr instead of amp) is to automatically adjust the timing delay of each speaker and make corrections for your room. You can't do this using two AVRs. So if you are not going to use AVR for sound processing, why not use two plain jane mono amplifiers?

 

[rwnano]

It will work. But the right channel of the left AVR will be wasting little bit electricity without producing any music. Similarly the left channel of the right channel will be wasting electricity. Also both AVR needs to be setup exactly the same and have to be of the same model.

But you can't use YPAO and other automated calibration programs of the AVR. The main reason for using AVR (at least that is why I use avr instead of amp) is to automatically adjust the timing delay of each speaker and make corrections for your room. You can't do this using two AVRs. So if you are not going to use AVR for sound processing, why not use two plain jane mono amplifiers?

Because I don't have mono amplifiers in my house. Will have to buy them. Like fosi v3 mono. And those are class D. While the AVR are class ab.
Also I am not using room correction dirac and audessy and the like in my AVR.

 

[mbhangui]

Because I don't have mono amplifiers in my house. Will have to buy them. Like fosi v3 mono. And those are class D. While the AVR are class ab.
Also I am not using room correction dirac and audessy and the like in my AVR.

And do you have two models of the same exact AVR? If yes, sure go ahead. Why waste money? But if you doing this for channel separation then remember you have a dac which produces both the channels in the same unit and most likely the chip/opamp/transistors which finally outputs the analog signal are very close to each other and that impacts channel separation more than using a single AVR to reproduce both channels. I can also bet that you DAC has the L and R input much closer than the AVR's L and R inputs

 

[rwnano]

It will work. But the right channel of the left AVR will be wasting little bit electricity without producing any music. Similarly the left channel of the right channel will be wasting electricity. Also both AVR needs to be setup exactly the same and have to be of the same model.

1. I have tone controls in both the AVRs - so I guess the "balance" will have to be set all the way to the right in one AVR and all the way to the left in the other AVR ?

 

[IndianEars]

I mean - like two monoblock amplifiers ? Like the fosi V3 dual mono?

in the above scheme : -
1. Take the RED RCA cable to AVR 1
2. Take the WHITE RCA cable output to AVR 2

from the DAC.
and Run only 1 FRONT speaker from each AVR

Yes, Ofcourse it will work.

....and should sound better than a single AVR.

Most multichannel AVRs are not capable of delivering their rated output if all channels are simultaneously driven.
As an example, most 5 Channel, 100 Watt AVRs will not deliver 100 Watts simultaneously into all 5 channels... They will probably deliver 60 Watts into each of 5 channels ... or even less ! (Money saved by the manufacturer on the Power Supply)

If you drive only 1 channel per AVR you will almost certainly get the rated power output from that 1 channel.

1. I have tone controls in both the AVRs - so I guess the "balance" will have to be set all the way to the right in one AVR and all the way to the left in the other AVR ?

Yes, you can:

1. Shift Balance control all the way to the Channel in use.

2. Alternately, you can leave the balance control in the centre position on Both AVRs

 

[surfatwork]

Technically speaking, it'll definitely produce sound, and nothing will blow up.

Will it sound better : nobody can say.
Will it sound better to you in your room than your current setup : you should try it out. And let us know!

 

[rwnano]

Excellent discussion

Dual Power Transformers

I've noticed that some High-End Amplifiers use 2 Power Transformers for the Power Supply; a separate Transformer for each channel. Is this something quite new? I've always only seen 1 Power Transformer used in most Amplifier Power Supplies. Are 2 Transformers used only on Higher-Power Amps? Or...

www.diyaudio.com

 

[rwnano]

Quote "
My experience is that there can be quite dramatic improvements from going from a single power transformer to duals. Naturally, whether a change is described as "dramatic" or not is entirely subjective. But in general, I have found that changes to power supply busses and grounding schemes can yield sonic differences that are considerably more obvious than most component changes (and the differences are usually easily measurable). Changing normal electrolytics to Black Gates or industrial-grade opamps to audiophile-approved devices is nothing compared to the differences that you can obtain by re-routing busses, or for that matter, revising circuit-board layouts.

Some of the benefits of dual transformers can be accomplished by going from a single, shared secondary winding to dual secondaries - one per channel (for the sake of simplicity assuming one winding for both voltage polarities with a center tap ground). But my experience is that there is still enough modulation occurring through the transformer core that there is a further benefit in moving from dual secondaries to dual transformers.

Theoretically, if you had a granite-solid constant current source and used one pair per channel to feed the regulators and amplifiers, the constant-current nature of the sources should fully isolate the channels and make it immaterial whether you were using one transformer or two. But this is easier said than done. Definitely one of the areas that I intend to work on in the future.

regards, jonathan carr"

 

[rwnano]

And that's the reason why:
1. Yogi bears amplifier designs seen in corelements possession are twin transformers.
2. Lyrita audio uses twin transformers with tubes
3. Twin transformers designs seen in vintage receivers were extremely highly rated for their sound quality

 

[IndianEars]

A couple of points I would like to make:

1. SINGLE TRANSFORMER IS ALWAYS CHEAPER
It is always cheaper to design & build a single transformer of double the VA, rather than 2 separate transformers.
To explain, if you need a Mains / Power Transformer of 500 VA per channel is 1,000 VA for 2 channels, it will be cheaper to built 1 transformer of 1,000 VA rather than 2 Transformers of 500 VA each.

Another perspective of the same is: For the price of 2 Transformers of 500 VA each, you could build a Single transformer of 1,200 VA (1,200 VA is just a figure for illustration purpose). The 1,200 VA single transformer will provide superior power delivery than 2 separate 500 VA transformers.

NOTE: When you are using 2 separate transformers for the power supply, you will alsao need to spend on 2 Separate Rectifiers, Filter capacitors and regulators... all of which could substantially add to overall costs.

2. ADVANTAGES OF 2 SEPARATE TRANSFORMERS
Besides the cost penalty of 2 separate transformers, audiophiles may look for benefits such as isolation (Large Transient music on 1 channel will not affect the other channel, though this is partly a myth in practice, since large transients are essentially Bass / Low Frequency, which are typically common to both channels ) etc between the 2 channels.

 

[IndianEars]

And that's the reason why:
1. Yogi bears amplifier designs seen in corelements possession are twin transformers.
2. Lyrita audio uses twin transformers with tubes
3. Twin transformers designs seen in vintage receivers were extremely highly rated for their sound quality

Do note that Tube amplifiers, typically ALWAYS use separate OUTPUT Transformers (Transformer between the output tube and the Speaker).

Most Tube amplifiers use a Single MAINS Transformer (The transformer between the Wall outlet and the amplifier).... what we are discussing here.

Could it be that you are confusing the two ?

 

[rwnano]

Do note that Tube amplifiers, typically ALWAYS use separate OUTPUT Transformers (Transformer between the output tube and the Speaker).

Most Tube amplifiers use a Single MAINS Transformer (The transformer between the Wall outlet and the amplifier).... what we are discussing here.

Could it be that you are confusing the two ?

This could be that I am confusing the two transformers real purpose in the cases of lyrita audio and yogibear and corelements amplifier.
However the vintage receivers I was talking about are the "twin power" harman kardon 430, 730, 930 which usually get very high acclaim from connoisseurs.
I think they have twin transformers one on each channel.

 

[IndianEars]

This could be that I am confusing the two transformers real purpose in the cases of lyrita audio and yogibear and corelements amplifier.
However the vintage receivers I was talking about are the "twin power" harman kardon 430, 730, 930 which usually get very high acclaim from connoisseurs.
I think they have twin transformers one on each channel.

Yes, Dual powered amplifiers / receivers are often lauded by audiophiles.

Incidentally, the harman kardon 430, 730 & 930 are Solid State (Not Valve) based receivers.

2 smaller transformers are also shorter in height and can be fit more easily in a (predetermined size, for marketing reasons) Chassis design

 

[rwnano]

BTW I think that yogibears design is a fully functional twin transformers twin monoblocks which corelements has, in a single chassis.. corelement who's listening skills are second to none and who is a knowledgeable audiophile swears by the design