Compact sub with speaker level in and out.

[chander]

Hi all,

At the risk of adding to the multiple sub queries that are going on and to not hi-jack someone else's thread, I have to create another thread and I apologise to all FMs for that.

I am helping my BIL (sister's hubby) setup a music system in his new office as he really liked mine and wanted to recreate this for his own. I run my setup without a subwoofer and I love it that way - but he is a pure bass head and wants a bit of rattling around him. For starters -

1 - His room is 11ft X 14ft X 12ft (LXWXH) - it is a fairly standard office room with a desk, AC, fan, a cabinet for books and files etc.
2 - His speakers are placed on the side of the desk - approximately 8 ft apart almost a meter away from him if considering vertical distance - toed in to direct the speakers at his seating position.
3 - His setup is Marantz PM6007 + QA C20s + Bluesound Node 2i in near field.

Now for main course -
1 - He wants to add a sub and the only place he can add it is under the desk.
2 - The SUB has to be compact.
3 - Though both the amp + Node has a sub out, he has been reading and has decided to add a sub with speaker level in and out. And this is where I am stumped. I could have suggested him an REL but he wants both in and out to eliminate the low end from speakers not compensate where they roll off.

Hence I need your help with -

1 - A micro sub - small in stature big on sound which works accurately with music but MUST have speaker level in and out.
2 - He listen to the usual suspects - New age bollywood, rock music, lots of bassy party type music.

I understand almost everyone is going to suggest a 10 or 12 inch sub for the kind of music - but that is where the limitation is - SIZE. Can't do.
I understand he can get bigger speakers with bigger bass drivers BUT that ship has sailed.
Budget is flexible - he is ok with upto 1L.
Can anyone suggest something?

Please note - I understand the limitations of a small sub and I have communicated the same to him and he has been reading up too but he wants a lot more bass than the C20s give and hence a sub is a must. What can I say?

Also he really like the sound of his current setup - just wants bass - he is in love with his C20s.

 

[Analogous]

Hi all,

At the risk of adding to the multiple sub queries that are going on and to not hi-jack someone else's thread, I have to create another thread and I apologise to all FMs for that.

I am helping my BIL (sister's hubby) setup a music system in his new office as he really liked mine and wanted to recreate this for his own. I run my setup without a subwoofer and I love it that way - but he is a pure bass head and wants a bit of rattling around him. For starters -

1 - His room is 11ft X 14ft X 12ft (LXWXH) - it is a fairly standard office room with a desk, AC, fan, a cabinet for books and files etc.
2 - His speakers are placed on the side of the desk - approximately 8 ft apart almost a meter away from him if considering vertical distance - toed in to direct the speakers at his seating position.
3 - His setup is Marantz PM6007 + QA C20s + Bluesound Node 2i in near field.

Now for main course -
1 - He wants to add a sub and the only place he can add it is under the desk.
2 - The SUB has to be compact.
3 - Though both the amp + Node has a sub out, he has been reading and has decided to add a sub with speaker level in and out. And this is where I am stumped. I could have suggested him an REL but he wants both in and out to eliminate the low end from speakers not compensate where they roll off.

Hence I need your help with -

1 - A micro sub - small in stature big on sound which works accurately with music but MUST have speaker level in and out.
2 - He listen to the usual suspects - New age bollywood, rock music, lots of bassy party type music.

I understand almost everyone is going to suggest a 10 or 12 inch sub for the kind of music - but that is where the limitation is - SIZE. Can't do.
I understand he can get bigger speakers with bigger bass drivers BUT that ship has sailed.
Budget is flexible - he is ok with upto 1L.
Can anyone suggest something?

Please note - I understand the limitations of a small sub and I have communicated the same to him and he has been reading up too but he wants a lot more bass than the C20s give and hence a sub is a must. What can I say?

Also he really like the sound of his current setup - just wants bass - he is in love with his C20s.

KEF KC62 would tick all the requirements except the budget limit.
I have one and it’s very good indeed.

 

[chander]

Thanks @Analogous - thought of it - though it doesn't have high level in and out both.

Till now I have only found this - https://www.velodyneacoustics.com/en/products/microvee-mkii/

 

[fLUX]

Hi all,

At the risk of adding to the multiple sub queries that are going on and to not hi-jack someone else's thread, I have to create another thread and I apologise to all FMs for that.

I am helping my BIL (sister's hubby) setup a music system in his new office as he really liked mine and wanted to recreate this for his own. I run my setup without a subwoofer and I love it that way - but he is a pure bass head and wants a bit of rattling around him. For starters -

1 - His room is 11ft X 14ft X 12ft (LXWXH) - it is a fairly standard office room with a desk, AC, fan, a cabinet for books and files etc.
2 - His speakers are placed on the side of the desk - approximately 8 ft apart almost a meter away from him if considering vertical distance - toed in to direct the speakers at his seating position.
3 - His setup is Marantz PM6007 + QA C20s + Bluesound Node 2i in near field.

Now for main course -
1 - He wants to add a sub and the only place he can add it is under the desk.
2 - The SUB has to be compact.
3 - Though both the amp + Node has a sub out, he has been reading and has decided to add a sub with speaker level in and out. And this is where I am stumped. I could have suggested him an REL but he wants both in and out to eliminate the low end from speakers not compensate where they roll off.

Hence I need your help with -

1 - A micro sub - small in stature big on sound which works accurately with music but MUST have speaker level in and out.
2 - He listen to the usual suspects - New age bollywood, rock music, lots of bassy party type music.

I understand almost everyone is going to suggest a 10 or 12 inch sub for the kind of music - but that is where the limitation is - SIZE. Can't do.
I understand he can get bigger speakers with bigger bass drivers BUT that ship has sailed.
Budget is flexible - he is ok with upto 1L.
Can anyone suggest something?

Please note - I understand the limitations of a small sub and I have communicated the same to him and he has been reading up too but he wants a lot more bass than the C20s give and hence a sub is a must. What can I say?

Also he really like the sound of his current setup - just wants bass - he is in love with his C20s.

The KEF R400B also are really nice, supports both high level and line level inputs and has a gain switch across 3 frequency ranges. I find them to do both subtle and even rattling bass quiet well upto an extent. I use them in a room with similar dimensions..

 

[chander]

@fLUX @Analogous To not sound like a complete nincompoop. I see only high level ins on both the suggested subs - KEF R62 & 400B, there is no high level out - like this -



Am I missing something?

 

[fLUX]

@fLUX @Analogous To not sound like a complete nincompoop. I see only high level ins on both the suggested subs - KEF R62 & 400B, there is no high level out - like this -

View attachment 67270

Am I missing something?

KEF R400B has the below slot and comes with an adaptor to take high level speaker wire inputs. Unfortunately no banana plugs which is much more convenient.

 

[Analogous]

@fLUX @Analogous To not sound like a complete nincompoop. I see only high level ins on both the suggested subs - KEF R62 & 400B, there is no high level out - like this -

View attachment 67270

Am I missing something?

Sorry, I missed that bit.
A bit curious to know why he is insistent on high level output from a sub?

 

[chander]

KEF R400B has the below slot and comes with an adaptor to take high level speaker wire inputs. Unfortunately no banana plugs which is much more convenient.

Thanks - so no speaker level out.

Sorry, I missed that bit.
A bit curious to know why he is insistent on high level output from a sub?

He has recently found the joy of audiophilia and has been absorbing forums like fat. He has taken a very deep liking to Paul from PS Audio (almost stalker level) and the people who believe in a stereo setup is incomplete without a subwoofer or 2 or 4.

So he wants to - very specifically - send the full range signal to a sub using the high level in - use the internal Xover of the sub to remove all things below 80Hz from reaching the speakers. He truly believes that will "open up" the midrange and "body" of the speakers and it will sound more "wholesome".

He also believes sending full range signal to both speakers and sub will lead to frequency overlap and he wouldn't be caught dead with that blasphemy.

So here I am.

 

[Analogous]

Thanks - so no speaker level out.


He has recently found the joy of audiophilia and has been absorbing forums like fat. He has taken a very deep liking to Paul from PS Audio (almost stalker level) and the people who believe in a stereo setup is incomplete without a subwoofer or 2 or 4.

So he wants to - very specifically - send the full range signal to a sub using the high level in - use the internal Xover of the sub to remove all things below 80Hz from reaching the speakers. He truly believes that will "open up" the midrange and "body" of the speakers and it will sound more "wholesome".

He also believes sending full range signal to both speakers and sub will lead to frequency overlap and he wouldn't be caught dead with that blasphemy.

So here I am.

Sounds like he has acute symptoms

 

[fLUX]

Thanks - so no speaker level out.


He has recently found the joy of audiophilia and has been absorbing forums like fat. He has taken a very deep liking to Paul from PS Audio (almost stalker level) and the people who believe in a stereo setup is incomplete without a subwoofer or 2 or 4.

So he wants to - very specifically - send the full range signal to a sub using the high level in - use the internal Xover of the sub to remove all things below 80Hz from reaching the speakers. He truly believes that will "open up" the midrange and "body" of the speakers and it will sound more "wholesome".

He also believes sending full range signal to both speakers and sub will lead to frequency overlap and he wouldn't be caught dead with that blasphemy.

So here I am.

Don't necessarily need a high level speaker out, you can pass high level input from the power amp directly to sub via additional wires attached to the PA or from the speaker terminals.

Edit. Missed the internal xover part of your comment.

 

[chander]

Don't necessarily need a high level speaker out, you can pass high level input from the power amp directly to sub via additional wires attached to the PA or from the speaker terminals.

True but it will still be full range to both the sub and the speakers. Full range is what he is trying to eliminate.

 

[fLUX]

True but it will still be full range to both the sub and the speakers. Full range is what he is trying to eliminate.

Lol , I just edited my comment to indicate that I missed this part

 

[chander]

Sounds like he has acute symptoms

It's more like - "Adhjal gaggari chalkat jaye, bhari gaggariya chuppe jaye". This quick consumption surface knowledge is always expensive. I am waiting for him to buy this - be unsatisfied, go for a 12 incher and send me this for free.

Anyhow - anything else anyone can think of?

 

[ajuvignesh]

Will a couple of yamaha sw300 work? From whatever I have read, it is good for music with servo technology.

 

[chander]

Will a couple of yamaha sw300 work? From whatever I have read, it is good for music with servo technology.

Thanks will add this to research list.

 

[k-pad]

A very interesting man, your BIL

Jokes apart, from my research (couldn't audition these particular puppies) the GE Forcefields could tick all the boxes.
It's a crazy design per se, and may not be for everyone, but do check them out.

Alternatively, as you said, you could bring him around to the REL T series subs. He would love them, even if they don't match his criteria.

Having said that, as someone who had my (ported) sub under a desk for the longest time, I would not recommend that placement for anyone.
They just go boomy and all the tightness of even a good sub will be lost - too much reverb i guess. Only pro is they make for great footrests during long hours at the work desk

Cheers and best

 

[jsmithe]

Hi all,

3 - Though both the amp + Node has a sub out, he has been reading and has decided to add a sub with speaker level in and out. And this is where I am stumped. I could have suggested him an REL but he wants both in and out to eliminate the low end from speakers not compensate where they roll off.

How about this one: https://hifimart.com/product/wharfedale-slim-bass-8-subwoofer/

From the manual https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/SLIM-BASS-8-Manual-90430.pdf it looks like it has high/level in/out. I can't seem to find mention of how to use the output in the manual, though. Also, not sure how good it will be for music.

 

[arj]

Thanks @Analogous - thought of it - though it doesn't have high level in and out both.

Till now I have only found this - https://www.velodyneacoustics.com/en/products/microvee-mkii/

High level in is usually needed to make sure the sound signature the same. that may not be so relevant here..

Id suggest to advice him to forget what he has read and go for the best sub to get the best bass

 

[chander]

I do not know how to put this in words.

BUT...... our man has bought a PreSonus Eris Sub8 locally today morning (I haven't asked but I think he hinted at Facebook Marketplace). After almost 2 weeks of high level in out saga - he decided that RCA in from node 2i to the Sub8 and rca out from the Sub8 to his amp driving the speakers will be about 95% same as high level in out. He is not very happy about losing the 5% performance but atleast there will be no frequency overlap. *FACE PALM*

I have a question here - is it that I am too much or a noob that I feel - if you just use the Node 2i sub out and set the crossover frequency to lets say 80hz it will have the same effect as there is a digital Xover in Node 2i? I understand the digital vs active Xover but I am sure the Sub8 is not going to be a top of the line Xover either - and will just add more trash in the chain.

Anyhow with this new update - I conclude this thread. Thank you all who chimed in to help a man out.

 

[DB1989]

BUT...... our man has bought a PreSonus Eris Sub8 locally today morning (I haven't asked but I think he hinted at Facebook Marketplace). After almost 2 weeks of high level in out saga - he decided that RCA in from node 2i to the Sub8 and rca out from the Sub8 to his amp driving the speakers will be about 95% same as high level in out. He is not very happy about losing the 5% performance but atleast there will be no frequency overlap. *FACE PALM*

I have a question here - is it that I am too much or a noob that I feel - if you just use the Node 2i sub out and set the crossover frequency to lets say 80hz it will have the same effect as there is a digital Xover in Node 2i? I understand the digital vs active Xover but I am sure the Sub8 is not going to be a top of the line Xover either - and will just add more trash in the chain.

I was thinking around the same lines at the beginning of this thread but gathering what you described about your man, was best to hold my peace till better sense prevailed.

Also, without proper room treatment or unless he listens in an open meadow (i.e. without any room boundaries), it wouldn't matter if the gulf was much larger than 5%.