Crown XLS 2502 : My Review of Sorts...

[Nagaraj S]

It’s a Monitor Audio Silver C350. 90bd, 200 W
It’s performing pretty good, but was wondering whether adding a dedicated power amp for the Center could open up the dynamics and scale further.

 

[tuff]

What AVR is it? does it have preouts?

 

[Nagaraj S]

What AVR is it? does it have preouts?

It’s Marantz SR6013, and yes it does have preouts. Thanks.

 

[aarmath]

Crown XLS 1502 vs Crown XLS 2502 -

Apart from the output rating, Is there any other notable difference between these amps in terms of any new enhancements (in the 2502 that is)?

Thanks.

 

[buxx]

That ASR guy goes gaga over the XLS 2502. (he has tested both)

 

[drkrack]

That ASR guy goes gaga over the XLS 2502. (he has tested both)

Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS2502 DriveCore (switching) 2-channel amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. The XLS 2502 cost US $645 including free shipping from Amazon. It has DSP functionality which I did not test. And is specified to drive 2 ohm load...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes pretty good technical review, it not only sounds but measures good as well.

 

[SwaroopKS]

Hi! We can experiment it by hooking up and A-Bing your XLi and my XLS. I am open to try the XLi out too. Since we stay in the same city, DM me if you want to give it a try.

Did you guys get a chance to do the AB testing?

Anybody who has heard both Swara tube preamp and Lyrita DHT pre could tell which one would ne a better buy ?

Have the same question. Not sure if anyone had chance to try the DHT pre with crown.

 

[raghupb]

Have the same question. Not sure if anyone had chance to try the DHT pre with crown.

FM @anirudhchandrashekar may have tried this. Lyrita DHT with Crown XLS2502
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[shyamv]

1.Initial Impression

My First Impression with Crown XLS 1502 was paired to MA Silver Floorstanders, The Sound was pretty Harsh, coupled with boomy bass; a typical Noisy DJ sound which put me off instantly. Had concluded that it would probably do good for HT purposes where a cheaper amplification is required and an AVR will adjust for Room and tonality etc. This also lead me to abstain looking for Class D solutions to my amplification requirements.

During a period of time I used a variety of amplifiers , Listened to various amplifiers; Mostly Class AB or A, from Krell, Plinius, Martin Logan, Gryphon , Parasound, Vidar, NAD, BAT, NHT, Sansui etc to Name a few.

If you don't want to Get Bored with my Journey of indecisiveness , You Can directly move on to review of XLS 2502 on Para #4 or Conclusions #9.

2. Class D Revisited

While I was contemplating an upgrade for my MA Silver FS + matched amplification , & I was looking for Options for speakers to buy, impulsively bought Flying Mole Class D 100WPC Monoblocks (stop Gap) as my Vidar was Sold . I was pretty intrigued with the Laser sharp stereo image they were capable of producing, with highly resolving bass signature. Almost neutral , devoid of any specific sound signature you can easily ascribe them to.

Recent whatshifi show in Mumbai, there was a interesting Floorstanders made of toughened Glass (yes Glass) called Waterfall Audio, which really excelled in the most neutral presentation. They wer being driven by a Yamaha PXA 500 a Pro series amp mated to Denon AVR as Pre . On asking the French Speaker designer was pretty clear about the higher amplification required to drive them and felt the Yamaha did drive them according his expectations. My reservations with Pro amps & Class D, almost resolved.

Out of the Speakers that I liked, on the top was ATC SCM series which ,with poor sensitivity , usually demanded higher amplification than 100wpc. ATC with the suitable Class AB Amplification was always going above my modest budget for the combo and I was stuck with indecisiveness. Various othe speakers I listened,Which included B&W 700 series, Klipsch 8000f, MA Gold, Heco GT, Sonus Faber Venere, Dynadudio had their own strengths and weaknesses but nothing really came close to the comprehensive signature I was looking for. So the shortlist included ATC SCM 19or40, Magnepen 1.7i , Heco GT & Audionote Level 1 etc. The option of Highly Sensitive Speakers with Tube amplification was dropped because of high intensity Rock /R&B/ Electro/ Bollywood genre I currently listen to. So Warm speakers with matching/overwhwelming amplification was the route I was left with.

3. Magnepan Mc 1 Happened
I loved the soundstage, vocals & highs of Maggies but the my Bass oriented listening , always didn't click all the check-boxes. Finally after much deliberation I Picked Maggies from HFV Classsifieds & with 80hz lower limit , I was clear about using the Subwoofer. @tuff recommended to get Crown , if you want to extract the best out of Maggies.

4. Crown XLS 2502
In spite of my not so impressive initial impressions I went ahead with Crown, saving few bucks instead of Qsc RMX. Gati Screwed up with Maggie delivery, I had lot of time to check the Crown with PMC 20.26. Chain Looked like this.

Roon PC – Gungnir Multibit DAC – Marantz SR7010 (as Pre) – Crown XLS 2502 – PMC 20.26.

Initially again the boom, and harsh Highs & seemed nothing has changed, I was patient enough to give a burn in for 30 odd hours, when the amp started getting more listenable. At 50 + hours it became pretty good and continues to improve from then on. The pairing with Maggies was really magical, with unbelievably huge soundstage and beautiful Highs and vocals, LF below 80 Hz was supported by XTZ 12.17 and the blending was nearly perfect. Apart from Maggies & PMC I tried the XLS with ATC and I got unbelievably lovable SQ response. Not Only Crown drove the ATCs easily , but excelled at every parameter of SQ.

5. Operation:

It is quite intutive, important advantage of this Pro amp is having RCA inputs along with XLR inputs. Only one input works any time and no way to switch between inputs. Prefers XLR input over others. Has input Sensitivity selection 1.4mV (balanced or when youre picking up Noise with Lower sensitivity) or 0.775mV when RCA is used. The LEDs for Clipping and Thermal cannot be switched off via menu, but all other LEDs including LED Panel can be completely shut off without any kind of distraction, Quite useful when using for HT Purpose. Comes with Channel 1 & 2 seperate Gain Control dials, Quite useful for balancing the L?R channels.

It has few Modes to Chose from the Front LED Menu, Stereo Mode is Default, You can Chose Bridge Mode and Y mode etc. LF Pass mode whenyou need to Biamp to drive only the LF driver is quite useful. Has a fan at the back, but I never heard it switching On or any fan noise was heard during my listening (it is probably super quiet).

6. Class & Differences in SQ

These are My comparative observations of Crown XLS with Class AB amps ,YMMV.

Class D runs Cooler, Quieter & provides maximum Watts per buck. The Sound stage, precision etc nothing to complain about. More like garbage in garbage out system, faithful reproduction of what you feed in, no coloration, no rounding of frequencies. Definitely Lacks the micro dynamics and subtle musicality offered by Class AB design Amps and XLS tends to sound more Clinical/Lifeless at times. Class AB sounds more full bodied in general. If you can afford Class AB then it is certainly a preferred approach, make sure to take into account the matching of other components. Adding a tube somewhere in the preamp stage could benefit so will be digital Room correction , I certainly felt more analogish and likable when paired with AMR DP-777 DAC/Pre. XLS is quite powerful and can drive most of the speakers available.

7. Modifications : That Helped to Achieve a decent SQ from the Crown XLS 2502 , compared to my initial experience...

• Re-Positioning the Speakers: You need to check Positioning of speakers again when you change major components, Pulling the speakers away from front wall and Reducing the Toe in totally, helped in this case.
  
• Cables: The stock Power cable isn't pretty good, when I used a Thicker Accuphase 40th Anniversary (Copy) Power cable SQ improved a lot. Going for Thicker guage speaker wire from Kimber 4Tc (used Last time) – to Kimber12 Tc and then a Warmer cable lIke DAC 2 Extreme reduced the harshness by a lot. Even the IC s Changed to Cardas Golden Ref instead of BJC LC1 used earlier. Do try with a 3rd party Power cable with XLS, it works well.
  
• DAC: Previously it was a SMSL Su-8 with ESS chipset, was bit brighter compared to Gungnir Multibit, which worked way better when Balanced Connection directly to the DAC was used. Volume was controlled by Roon DSP. Avoid Pairing with Brighter Electronics.
  
• Burn in of 50 odd hours, It takes Sweet 30 Minutes to Warm up every time. I didn't have a proper warm up last time.
  
• Speakers Themselves : Less brighter (Warmer) speakers should do very well with XLS amps
  
• AVR as a Pre (with Audessey) was a better match than SYS Pre used earlier
  
• Used Isolation Control Spike/pads for Amp which gave a more precise frequency demarcation (Advisable)
  
• Finally the comparison between personally bought XLS vs Loaned XLS ; will have some observer bias

8. Specifications: XLS 2502

• Number of Channels:2
  
• Power Class:Class D
  
• Watts/Side @ 8 ohms:440W
  
• Watts/Side @ 4 ohms:775W
  
• Watts/Side @ 2 ohms:1200W
  
• Watts Bridged:2400W @ 4 ohms, 1550W @ 8 ohms
  
• Inputs:2 x XLR, 1 x stereo RCA, 2 x 1/4"
  
• Outputs:2 x speakON, 2 x Binding Posts
  
• Cooling System:Efficient Forced-air Fans
  
• DSP:Yes
  
• Filters:Yes
  
• Rack Spaces:2U
  
• Height:3.5"
  
• Depth:10.7"
  
• Width:19"
  
• Weight:10.8 lbs.
  
• Price Rs 29000 (Offline Prices are Cheaper)

Genre Tested : Rock, Vocal Jazz, R&B/Pop ,Contemprory Bollywood & AR Rahman.

9. Conclusions:

Strengths

• More Watts per Buck, Pretty Powerful
  
• Runs Cooler , Quieter
  
• Audiophile quality in budget, if you can get the correct component matching and few modifications
  
• Plenty of Modes, Inputs , Gain Controls to suit most of your needs
  
• Neutral Signature, Adequate details & Non Noisy
  
• Pairs very well with Maggies & Warm speakers
  
• 3 Years Comprehensive, Robust Warranty from the house of JBL

Weaknesses

• Sounds Clinical/Lifeless with bit less dynamics and musicality
  
• Less full bodied sound (Not too thin either)
  
• Sounds pretty harsh if not carefully matched
  
• Not for everyone. (need to invest further time and money in tweaking)

Hopefully I have answered your Queries @anirudhchandrashekar & @celester340

View attachment 35648View attachment 35649

Thanks for the detailed review. I am looking into XLS2502/1502 myself but am concerned about the brickwalling at 48KHz by its ADC. You might be aware that XLS amps does A-D conversion at 48Khz sampling of all analog inputs signals, processes it via DSP and then coverts it back to Analog prior to amplification. This means that any high resolution audio including FLAC or DSD via SACD is also resamples during the A-D conversion. I have a large collection of SACDs and hires FLAC and concerned about how it sound amplified via Crown XLS amps?

What had been your experience with hires music? Other forum members have reported spatial/timing issues but not sure if this an problem with Crown amp or their pre-amp in the chain. Have you observed any such problems? Appreciate your inputs.

Thanks,
Shyam.

 

[ssf]

You might be aware that XLS amps does A-D conversion at 48Khz sampling of all analog inputs signals, processes it via DSP and then coverts it back to Analog prior to amplification.

I am currently listening to FLAC on external HHD via PotPlayer and I can't hear any degradation in sound through my ears and my system.

What had been your experience with hires music? Other forum members have reported spatial/timing issues but not sure if this an problem with Crown amp or their pre-amp in the chain. Have you observed any such problems?

On my Crown XLS 2502 I have not noticed any timing issues. My pre is a well priced but nice FX-Audio tube. I however might have to add that I probably don't hear much above 15Khz.

 

[raghupb]

I am currently listening to FLAC on external HHD via PotPlayer and I can't hear any degradation in sound through my ears and my system.

On my Crown XLS 2502 I have not noticed any timing issues. My pre is a well priced but nice FX-Audio tube. I however might have to add that I probably don't hear much above 15Khz.

You are blessed or cursed. I can't beyond 10K I think
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[DB1989]

Thanks for the detailed review. I am looking into XLS2502/1502 myself but am concerned about the brickwalling at 48KHz by its ADC. You might be aware that XLS amps does A-D conversion at 48Khz sampling of all analog inputs signals, processes it via DSP and then coverts it back to Analog prior to amplification. This means that any high resolution audio including FLAC or DSD via SACD is also resamples during the A-D conversion. I have a large collection of SACDs and hires FLAC and concerned about how it sound amplified via Crown XLS amps?

What had been your experience with hires music? Other forum members have reported spatial/timing issues but not sure if this an problem with Crown amp or their pre-amp in the chain. Have you observed any such problems? Appreciate your inputs.

Thanks,
Shyam.

No timing issues on a crown. Music on the crown has that foot tapping rhythm akin to that on my PM6006. All instruments and frequencies play on cue and no part of the spectrum lags behind. Is it an upgrade to the PM6006? Probably not... but timing issues, i don’t think so.

must be the preamp then cuz i have the same preamp viz. fx audio dp02 and i have noticed timing issues on my unit though @ssf has reported otherwise on his. Considering its a mass produced cheap chinese product, i don’t think they’re high on quality control on every unit that they produce.

in hindsight, its not really cheap considering the price at which car stereos are available which perform essentially the same function but have the added functionality of a built in amp as well....

 

[drkrack]

These Cheaper Cables from AliExpress Worked wonders with my Crown XLS 2502 amps, People who are interested in improving the performance of Crown XLS Should try these. Again regular disclaimer that YMMV, they are very cheap but very well built for the price ( unfortunately Shipping prices are costlier).
Power Cable
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ICs
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Speakers Cable
1. Rs. 3,076.19 20％ Off | Hi-end carbon fiber plug / gold plated plug ribbon Nordost speaker Interconnector RCA XLR cable for AMP CD player hifi audio

Rs. 3,076.19 20％ Off | Hi-end carbon fiber plug / gold plated plug ribbon Nordost speaker Interconnector RCA XLR cable for AMP CD player hifi audio

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2. Rs. 3,506.86 5％ Off | XSSH audio Hi-end DIY HIFI Silver Plated Y shape spade to banana plugs 12TC 24 core speaker cable Cord Wire

Rs. 3,506.86 5％ Off | XSSH audio Hi-end DIY HIFI Silver Plated Y shape spade to banana plugs 12TC 24 core speaker cable Cord Wire

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These are Copy Cables, but one of the best which mated pretty well with Crown XLS

 

[jsmithe]

I am currently listening to FLAC on external HHD via PotPlayer and I can't hear any degradation in sound through my ears and my system.

On my Crown XLS 2502 I have not noticed any timing issues. My pre is a well priced but nice FX-Audio tube. I however might have to add that I probably don't hear much above 15Khz.

@ssf, you indicate no issues with FLAC but not sure if it's high-res. Could you confirm that there are no issues with 24/96 and upwards audio with the XLS 2502. The OP on this post https://www.hifivision.com/threads/review-of-crown-xls-1502-class-d-amp.80198/ says that he ran into issues with 24/192 audio and I think the OP on this post too indicated something similar.

 

[ssf]

@ssf, you indicate no issues with FLAC but not sure if it's high-res. Could you confirm that there are no issues with 24/96 and upwards audio with the XLS 2502. The OP on this post https://www.hifivision.com/threads/review-of-crown-xls-1502-class-d-amp.80198/ says that he ran into issues with 24/192 audio and I think the OP on this post too indicated something similar.

I can't find any issues. See if you can spot any in the video below. My tubes were just turned on hence not sounding their best. Also, the clicking noise early on is not a part of the music. My phone has picked it up from the house.

ps: I did not know that my chair makes so much of noise !!!

 

[jsmithe]

I can't find any issues. See if you can spot any in the video below. My tubes were just turned on hence not sounding their best. Also, the clicking noise early on is not a part of the music. My phone has picked it up from the house.

ps: I did not know that my chair makes so much of noise !!!

@ssf thanks for the confirm and the video. Took a listen and yes, I can't detect anything problematic either. The OP's on those posts must have had something else causing the problem then.

Oh and those Quads. Sound. Great.

 

[ssf]

@ssf thanks for the confirm and the video. Took a listen and yes, I can't detect anything problematic either. The OP's on those posts must have had something else causing the problem then.

Oh and those Quads. Sound. Great.

I don't know the bit rates of Tidal Masters. I think it should be better than CD quality. Please take a look at the video posted in here too.

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/my-first-venture-into-pre-pro-–-pointers-welcome.81802/page-2#post-912648

Edit: From their page:

"HiFi audio is a superior sound but is still limited in its resolution—44.1 kHz /16 bit. TIDAL has partnered with MQA to deliver something substantially better: an authenticated and unbroken version (typically 96 kHz / 24 bit) with the highest possible resolution—as flawless as it sounded in the mastering suite. And exactly as the artist intended it to sound."

 

[jsmithe]

I don't know the bit rates of Tidal Masters. I think it should be better than CD quality. Please take a look at the video posted in here too.

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/my-first-venture-into-pre-pro-–-pointers-welcome.81802/page-2#post-912648

Edit: From their page:

"HiFi audio is a superior sound but is still limited in its resolution—44.1 kHz /16 bit. TIDAL has partnered with MQA to deliver something substantially better: an authenticated and unbroken version (typically 96 kHz / 24 bit) with the highest possible resolution—as flawless as it sounded in the mastering suite. And exactly as the artist intended it to sound."

Thanks. I guess it varies with the track. I noticed that the zoomed in bit of your video right at the start indicates 24/96 on that Kenny G audio track.

Can I request you for a quick test with downloaded hi-res audio? Some test files, if you aren't already aware about them: http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

 

[ssf]

Thanks. I guess it varies with the track. I noticed that the zoomed in bit of your video right at the start indicates 24/96 on that Kenny G audio track.

Can I request you for a quick test with downloaded hi-res audio? Some test files, if you aren't already aware about them: http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

I think I purchased the Kenny G FLAC album from HD Tracks. It is on my external hard disk connected to my computer through USB 3.0. It was played through PotPlayer. The Tidal Master video is on the other link.

The following music (FLAC) is downloaded from your link and played from my local hard disk. Please let us know if you can hear any issues.

 

[jsmithe]

I think I purchased the Kenny G FLAC album from HD Tracks. It is on my external hard disk connected to my computer through USB 3.0. It was played through PotPlayer. The Tidal Master video is on the other link.

The following music (FLAC) is downloaded from your link and played from my local hard disk. Please let us know if you can hear any issues.

Thanks @ssf Appreciate you taking the time to fulfill the request so quickly. It sounds fantastic and no, I did not notice any timing issues etc. with this track nor with the previous two tracks you demo'd.