Do you really think Indian cricket team deserves this?
- Thread starter anm
- Start date
Great! Ultimately a cricket thread I was thinking of starting for some time. Recently in Bombay dinyaar and I even talked about a cricket thread in HFV. Apart from Physics and Music (not so much equipments), sports in general is my other true passion, and I have instilled some of that in my son.
Anm, why not? I have not read the link you provided. I think they deserve the no 1 position. This could have happened even ten years ago, barring a few crucial positions in the team (for example two established openers, a good wicketkeeper batsman, a few more choice in the pace bowling department etc: all of which we have now).
Regards.
Anm, why not? I have not read the link you provided. I think they deserve the no 1 position. This could have happened even ten years ago, barring a few crucial positions in the team (for example two established openers, a good wicketkeeper batsman, a few more choice in the pace bowling department etc: all of which we have now).
Regards.
Short answer - no. Sorry to disappoint a lot of Team India fan. I consider myself a die-hard fan too.
It is not that I do not think India is one of the top teams in the world today. That they certainly are. But it is not as if this drawn series at home proves their supremacy in world cricket without a smidgen of doubt.
If you ask me whether I believe this team can do some world domination, yes, it can. But only if the team's defensive mindset changes.
If there are cricket-crazy people here who would love to know more thoughts or discuss more, let me know and I will pass on my blog site address where we can share more thoughts. I regularly vent my mind on cricket over there
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Dinyaar and I have spent a lot of time discussing cricket. Guess he is busy with his house-moving endeavour. Look forward to talking shop with more esteemed members here.
It is not that I do not think India is one of the top teams in the world today. That they certainly are. But it is not as if this drawn series at home proves their supremacy in world cricket without a smidgen of doubt.
If you ask me whether I believe this team can do some world domination, yes, it can. But only if the team's defensive mindset changes.
If there are cricket-crazy people here who would love to know more thoughts or discuss more, let me know and I will pass on my blog site address where we can share more thoughts. I regularly vent my mind on cricket over there
. Dinyaar and I have spent a lot of time discussing cricket. Guess he is busy with his house-moving endeavour. Look forward to talking shop with more esteemed members here.
Hi
Cant miss a cricket thread !
Now with the decline of the Australians I truly believe that we are the best test squad. Gambhir,Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, VVS, Dhoni are more than talented as batsman and Zaheer, Ishant, Sree, RP can hold their own as seamers. Its Harbhajan Singh who has to pull up his socks.
We should groom a good wrist spinner. Amit Mishra has the basic skill but needs to develop fast.
Each team has its weakness and ours is that we are just not athletic enough or dont work hard enough on our fielding. IMO SA are always around the top mainly due the sheer brilliance in the field. Player for player we will strongly dominate the SA side.
Am going on about SA as they seem to be the major threat at the moment.
The domestic level in our country needs a major revamp. Lessen the teams and u will have a higher standard in the Ranji IMO. Small changes in format too are long overdue.
Sri Lanka are another strong team but off late we get the better of them and Pak/WI are too inconsistent to really challenge the best. Eng in bowler friendly conditions are always a threat but then ENG never really wins anything major!!!
Anyway these are just my views and are not based on ANY RANKING system.
I have seen almost no sport in the last month as I am in between homes and have missed both tests but kept myself updated only with the newspapers. I am dreading the retirement of Sachin, Rahul and VVS. I cant see a Rohit Sharma filling any of these big shoes though I feel Murli Vijay has that something special but is far from a finished product.
Will keenly await opinions from the other HFV cricket buffs. I know vortex & Asit are cricket followers and it would be nice to exchange views with many others.
Rgds
Cant miss a cricket thread !
Now with the decline of the Australians I truly believe that we are the best test squad. Gambhir,Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, VVS, Dhoni are more than talented as batsman and Zaheer, Ishant, Sree, RP can hold their own as seamers. Its Harbhajan Singh who has to pull up his socks.
We should groom a good wrist spinner. Amit Mishra has the basic skill but needs to develop fast.
Each team has its weakness and ours is that we are just not athletic enough or dont work hard enough on our fielding. IMO SA are always around the top mainly due the sheer brilliance in the field. Player for player we will strongly dominate the SA side.
Am going on about SA as they seem to be the major threat at the moment.
The domestic level in our country needs a major revamp. Lessen the teams and u will have a higher standard in the Ranji IMO. Small changes in format too are long overdue.
Sri Lanka are another strong team but off late we get the better of them and Pak/WI are too inconsistent to really challenge the best. Eng in bowler friendly conditions are always a threat but then ENG never really wins anything major!!!
Anyway these are just my views and are not based on ANY RANKING system.
I have seen almost no sport in the last month as I am in between homes and have missed both tests but kept myself updated only with the newspapers. I am dreading the retirement of Sachin, Rahul and VVS. I cant see a Rohit Sharma filling any of these big shoes though I feel Murli Vijay has that something special but is far from a finished product.
Will keenly await opinions from the other HFV cricket buffs. I know vortex & Asit are cricket followers and it would be nice to exchange views with many others.
Rgds
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Dinyaar - would love your thoughts on my take on these two Tests. You have my PM with the URL.
I know just about everybody praises Mishra. But Mishra's bowling was absolutely pathetic in this series. I know this is just a single statement, but I am willing to expand on this if needed. What irks me more though is that India continually marginalizes Murali Karthik who is our best spinner just because he is not in the BCCI good books! Plus we do not have any other talented spinner on the horizon.
And whats up? You are not to be seen too often around here..
I know just about everybody praises Mishra. But Mishra's bowling was absolutely pathetic in this series. I know this is just a single statement, but I am willing to expand on this if needed.
What irks me more though is that India continually marginalizes Murali Karthik who is our best spinner just because he is not in the BCCI good books! Plus we do not have any other talented spinner on the horizon. And whats up? You are not to be seen too often around here..
psychotropic
Well-Known Member
as a long time Arsenal fan, and a generally a fan of the more mercurial sporting entities, i am a bit glum about the Indian team now. They're really damn good. I loved them far more when they were prone to flashes of brilliance and stretches of mediocrity. Somehow for me being a sports fan is a lot to do with unpredictability and i perversely enjoy the anguish of disappointment as well...it makes the few victories sweeter. I think that's reflected in most people i've supported in sport including Arsenal, Spain (football), India (cricket), Senna and then Damon Hill.
The Titan Cup victory is something I will cherish far far more than the T20 world cup or this No. 1 status of ours.
But yeah, I have no doubt that india deserves the no. 1 ranking. South Africa is also pretty much as good, but no. 1 rankings can't accommodate multiple people.
The Titan Cup victory is something I will cherish far far more than the T20 world cup or this No. 1 status of ours.
But yeah, I have no doubt that india deserves the no. 1 ranking. South Africa is also pretty much as good, but no. 1 rankings can't accommodate multiple people.
If you look at it closely, 12 balls or so were what separated us from the ignominy of losing a home series and the South Africans romping home with the No.1 spot.
That is not what I would call a clear No.1 position for the Indian team. The potential is there. But there is probably no real claimant to the throne as far as the Test arena is concerned right now. I am waiting with bated breath for the return tour to South Africa.
In that tour, Dhoni and Kirsten can ill afford to make the selection and captaincy fiascoes that they made in this series. Not to mention laughable field sets.
That is not what I would call a clear No.1 position for the Indian team. The potential is there. But there is probably no real claimant to the throne as far as the Test arena is concerned right now. I am waiting with bated breath for the return tour to South Africa.
In that tour, Dhoni and Kirsten can ill afford to make the selection and captaincy fiascoes that they made in this series. Not to mention laughable field sets.
I still remember the editorial written by Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi in then-newly launched "Sportsworld" in 1977/78. Indian team was just announced and a certain Kapil Dev was included in the squad for the first time. Pataudi did not support the inclusion of Kapil saying that spinners were our traditional strength.
Since then a lot of water has flown by the Ganges. Today we have a pack of reasonable seam and swing bowlers who can occasionally bowl out an entire side. We usually play abroad (outside Indian subcontinent) with 3 pace bowlers and 1 spinner.
At the same time, popularity of the limited over games with all kinds of fielding restrictions have really restricted development of quality spinners with traditional action, not just here in India. Even Vittori really does not have a traditional action, he runs straight to the crease, and then has to have a jump in order to be side-on at the delivery stride.
I am not surprised we are not producing the quality of spinners that was once there. Harbhajan, despite his non-traditional action, definitely has it in him, except that he does not always keep a cool head and think clearly. For an off-spinner, he cannot always bowl the outside-the-off-stump-line on a consistent length and gets cut too often (although during the 2nd innings at the Eden Test he managed that). Amit Mishra is too new at the international level, but I think he has the basics. I would rather like the development of a Kumble who would gradually grow into a good (great in case of Kumble) bowler than the sudden rise of a LS Sivaramakrishnan, N Hirwani or Maninder Singh and then quickly fade away.
The track in the recent Nagpur test was too slow for anybody (including a spinner) to be effective. A spinner also needs the zip off the wicket. Harbhajan got that zip off the Eden track and that's how he got so many LBWs here. At the same time, a slightly livelier track suits our batsmen also better, I feel. Most of them are stroke players and would enjoy the ball coming a bit quicker and at a decent height. I feel we are better off that way. For the last ten years we are winning abroad consistently on harder, bouncier wickets. This way we would also get a measure of the good spinners who could get wickets on such pitches, in other words they would employ more variation of flight etc a la the classical age (Prasanna and Bedi). While I say this, I have to also say that the classical age will never come back, because one has to also keep the quality of the modern bats in mind. I have played cricket in those days with those bats, and believe me I know and I also see the bats in use today (remember my son plays cricket seriously).
Our main worry I think is batting bench strength, as dinyaar has correctly diagnosed. Spinners are a worry, but batting is a bigger worry. Forget about the retirement of Sachin, Rahul and Laxman, has anybody really cemented a place in the last year and a half after Sourav retired? The answer is NO. Yuvraj although mercurially talented is too inconsistent (seems like his upbringing on cement pitches is having an effect after all). I banked on Rohit, I think he has some talent (although dinyaar disagrees), but a little bit of fame has put him out of orbit. In addition, I do not think Mumbai team is looking after him well enough. Why is Ajinkya Rahane going at no.3 in the batting order for Ranji Trophy matches and Rohit is coming at no.5? I do not see any logic in that. Rahane does not have what it takes, despite what the Mumbai authorities may think. Murali Vijay can play (again agree with dinyaar).
Fielding will gradually improve. Already the newer lot is better and at times stellar. Only thing we need to be careful about is close catching which does not happen just by hard work, god-gifted talent is also required. A Mark Waugh is not produced by hard practice alone. We had Wadekar, Solkar, Abid Ali, Venkat and a few others who were world class close cathchers. These days with more pace bowling we have Rahul and VVS as world class slip fielders. This is an area that can win or lose matches for you.
More thoughts later.
Regards.
Since then a lot of water has flown by the Ganges. Today we have a pack of reasonable seam and swing bowlers who can occasionally bowl out an entire side. We usually play abroad (outside Indian subcontinent) with 3 pace bowlers and 1 spinner.
At the same time, popularity of the limited over games with all kinds of fielding restrictions have really restricted development of quality spinners with traditional action, not just here in India. Even Vittori really does not have a traditional action, he runs straight to the crease, and then has to have a jump in order to be side-on at the delivery stride.
I am not surprised we are not producing the quality of spinners that was once there. Harbhajan, despite his non-traditional action, definitely has it in him, except that he does not always keep a cool head and think clearly. For an off-spinner, he cannot always bowl the outside-the-off-stump-line on a consistent length and gets cut too often (although during the 2nd innings at the Eden Test he managed that). Amit Mishra is too new at the international level, but I think he has the basics. I would rather like the development of a Kumble who would gradually grow into a good (great in case of Kumble) bowler than the sudden rise of a LS Sivaramakrishnan, N Hirwani or Maninder Singh and then quickly fade away.
The track in the recent Nagpur test was too slow for anybody (including a spinner) to be effective. A spinner also needs the zip off the wicket. Harbhajan got that zip off the Eden track and that's how he got so many LBWs here. At the same time, a slightly livelier track suits our batsmen also better, I feel. Most of them are stroke players and would enjoy the ball coming a bit quicker and at a decent height. I feel we are better off that way. For the last ten years we are winning abroad consistently on harder, bouncier wickets. This way we would also get a measure of the good spinners who could get wickets on such pitches, in other words they would employ more variation of flight etc a la the classical age (Prasanna and Bedi). While I say this, I have to also say that the classical age will never come back, because one has to also keep the quality of the modern bats in mind. I have played cricket in those days with those bats, and believe me I know and I also see the bats in use today (remember my son plays cricket seriously).
Our main worry I think is batting bench strength, as dinyaar has correctly diagnosed. Spinners are a worry, but batting is a bigger worry. Forget about the retirement of Sachin, Rahul and Laxman, has anybody really cemented a place in the last year and a half after Sourav retired? The answer is NO. Yuvraj although mercurially talented is too inconsistent (seems like his upbringing on cement pitches is having an effect after all). I banked on Rohit, I think he has some talent (although dinyaar disagrees), but a little bit of fame has put him out of orbit. In addition, I do not think Mumbai team is looking after him well enough. Why is Ajinkya Rahane going at no.3 in the batting order for Ranji Trophy matches and Rohit is coming at no.5? I do not see any logic in that. Rahane does not have what it takes, despite what the Mumbai authorities may think. Murali Vijay can play (again agree with dinyaar).
Fielding will gradually improve. Already the newer lot is better and at times stellar. Only thing we need to be careful about is close catching which does not happen just by hard work, god-gifted talent is also required. A Mark Waugh is not produced by hard practice alone. We had Wadekar, Solkar, Abid Ali, Venkat and a few others who were world class close cathchers. These days with more pace bowling we have Rahul and VVS as world class slip fielders. This is an area that can win or lose matches for you.
More thoughts later.
Regards.
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goyal.sanchit
New Member
What you seem to have missed out here is that more than 90 overs were lost in the match due to BAD LIGHT + RAIN.
So strictly going by the no. of overs bowled India finished off the game in less than 4 days and thats pretty good.
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@ Topic
IMO India totally deserve the no. 1 ranking. Though the gap between India and others is minimal and not the vast gap like it was between Australia and other teams 5 years back.
If India has their weakness in the bowling department, Then SA have their weakness in the spin department and somewhat in batting department. Same is the case with Australia who have suffered after the retirement of Mcgrath, Warne, Hayden, Langer etc !!
The ranking may shift places very soon as the gap is minimal but as long as India is on No. 1 it totally deserves the rank.
marsilians
Well-Known Member
Am a huge cricket fan and follow regularly. I just cannot afford to watch the matches all day as I have too many obligations in this stage of my life. So, my touch points are some watching, some newspapers and internet - I like cricinfo as a concept but not a big fan of the content. Its biased in my opinion.
Now, re: the OP question. I think Indian team does deserve the ranking as like any other team shoudl be as the chances were fair and open. Now will they hold onto this for long, definitely not. We are not a powerhouse such as Aussies were or the West Indies before them. We have the potential to beat any team however we dont do it consistently. Now if you looked around, there are no other teams with similar fire power as well. The group that has the potential to be no. 1 includes Aussies, SA, SL and NZ (Yup I said it). Of these I would say SA is the top most threat.
They are a reasonably young squad and have shown us that they can dismantle us very convincingly. But again it goes back to the question of consistency.
I hope that we have sufficient young talent to cover up as the big boys start to look towards retirement. We need 2 good pacers and spinners and a reasonably good backup. So far we do not have very good back up plans. Sreesanth is a give and take and so is Ishant.
For batting, there is some promise in Karthik and Vijay but they need more exposure and confidence to make a dent. Gambhir is good but not in super form now - hope its a temporary dry patch.
And no, we are not seeing signs of a second Dravid or Sachin or Laxman.
Finally, Sehwag, he can destroy anything, literally anything including his career. Why can't he calm down even 10% so he can go for big scores when we are chasing challenging targets?? His temperment has to improve when batting second in tests.
Now, re: the OP question. I think Indian team does deserve the ranking as like any other team shoudl be as the chances were fair and open. Now will they hold onto this for long, definitely not. We are not a powerhouse such as Aussies were or the West Indies before them. We have the potential to beat any team however we dont do it consistently. Now if you looked around, there are no other teams with similar fire power as well. The group that has the potential to be no. 1 includes Aussies, SA, SL and NZ (Yup I said it). Of these I would say SA is the top most threat.
They are a reasonably young squad and have shown us that they can dismantle us very convincingly. But again it goes back to the question of consistency.
I hope that we have sufficient young talent to cover up as the big boys start to look towards retirement. We need 2 good pacers and spinners and a reasonably good backup. So far we do not have very good back up plans. Sreesanth is a give and take and so is Ishant.
For batting, there is some promise in Karthik and Vijay but they need more exposure and confidence to make a dent. Gambhir is good but not in super form now - hope its a temporary dry patch.
And no, we are not seeing signs of a second Dravid or Sachin or Laxman.
Finally, Sehwag, he can destroy anything, literally anything including his career. Why can't he calm down even 10% so he can go for big scores when we are chasing challenging targets?? His temperment has to improve when batting second in tests.
sam9s
Well-Known Member
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I think Indian team "has" to an extent come over their defensive frame of mind and hence able to achieve whatever big or small they have. Your post drives more of pessimisms then conviction.......
Ofcourse they deserve number one spot.....its not like a fluke coz they are able to maintain it (atleast till now). There are flaws yes that still needs to be addressed, but defensive mindset is definately not one of them.......
PS :: I think there should have been a poll........ OP/MODS is there way a poll can still be included. I am eager to see how many say "YES"
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i completely and whole heartedly disagree
. you dont mess around with a guy like sehwag. if he started caring for all this, then there is no difference in him and lesser mortals. there hasnt been a guy like him for a 100 years and we probably wont see one for another 100. there is no other batsman (past or present) that can change the course of a test series in a couple of sessions.anm
Well-Known Member
wow! it is great to see 20 comments on hifivision! unfortunately, the FB page didn't get any comments. Seems you guys are not on facebook.
I think as a nation we do deserve to be #1 in cricket, but this win is on Indian grounds so I think there is more to be done to retain that spot!
I think as a nation we do deserve to be #1 in cricket, but this win is on Indian grounds so I think there is more to be done to retain that spot!
Well - as long as the discussion is about the 2nd Test, here is something I wrote at the end.
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Eden emotions
February 18th 2010 12:47
Two moments probably told us all that this Test match was going to be far more exciting than your average limited overs contest. Or even the average Test match. In the 3rd over after tea, Harbhajan raised his hands towards the heaven before bowling the last ball of the over which again was bluntly and solidly smothered down by Hashim Amla. He was asking for divine intervention to help budge Amla from the crease. A couple of overs later, a half push off Ishant gently rolled down and disturbed the stumps at the bowlers' end. The bail lifted and fell back smartly into place, atop the stumps! Today was going to be special. We all knew it. And it was. India won at Eden. But South Africa did not lose. In Hashim Amla they won. Amla won the most hearts at Eden - India's premier ground for cricket - with his impeccable defense and almost preternatural concentration skills. At times one felt that he had gotten into the skin of the bowler and worked out exactly what variations are going to come up and when in each over. He never once looked like getting out. Which is precisely why India chose the smart route. They picked up everybody else leaving him stranded. Who said sport is fair?
The 22 yards
Now this is going to be tricky. If India had not managed to win this match, this is probably what would have been the assessment of the Eden track. Too much grass was left on the surface which meant that the wicket was solidly bound together. Perhaps too solidly. What we saw today was not a 5th day wicket. There was practically no wear. No rough areas. Not much spin. And it was not as if there was too much swing throughout the match - conventional or reverse swing. What this match did have was a spate of centuries - 7 to be exact.
Luckily for India the match ended in a result - despite Amla. But the result was by no means predestined. In fact I would go so far as to say that this was not a result wicket and hence not a good Test match wicket. There, I have said it.
But then India has won. So all this does not matter to most people.
The Game
As Ravi Shastri repeated more than once during his post match ceremony the match was squandered by South Africa in the first day's play - when Harbhajan made his triple strike. That combined with Zaheer Khan's canny post Tea spell put paid to South Africa's hopes of raising a huge first innings total and put it beyond India to win the game.
That apart we saw two blood and guts innings from Amla. He alone among the South African batsmen came to terms with the Indian bowlers, their nuances and their limitations. But that alone is not enough for a batsman to survive for over 20 hours in the course of a Test match. We can safely say that when Rahul Dravid hangs up his boots, the game will not be bereft of a 'over my dead body' type of batsman. Entrenched batsmanship lives on - thanks to Hashim Amla.
Graeme Smith's poor game (poor series as a matter of fact) had as much of an influence as Duminy's and Prince's 'all at sea' efforts in both the Test matches. However the South African bowlers - including the unheralded Paul Harris can hold their heads high and look forward to high marks for their unflagging efforts throughout.
Coming to the victors of the game, it is said that great teams win from difficult and near impossible situations. Things were close to being that desperate today. But when the chips were down, the No.1 ranked team pulled together and held its nerves better. Much will no doubt be made of India's achievement of winning the game with just 3 specialist bowlers - as they were without Zaheer Khan. A theoretical question though raises its head - did India necessarily need the extra batsman? Or would it have made more sense to include 5 bowlers? More on that later. Harbhajan and Ishant carried the day for India. Harbhajan's lion hearted performance was almost singularly responsible for this victory. In fact one is convinced that it was his frequent switching the line from over to around the wicket and back which planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of Morne Morkel who had been essaying a rock solid defense till then. Ishant did the hard yards and generally did the clean up work without any complaint. His bowling is ideally suited to be used as a stock bowler and that is what he was today. Ishant also deserves special mention for achieving the almost impossible feat today. He beat Hashim Amla's bat - once!
Amit Mishra's was a strange performance. It is not so much that he is not ready or fit to play at this level as his mental rigidity in continuing to bowl on or outside the off stump to right handed batsmen. In fact it probably helped Mishra on the 4th day that he was bowling to Smith first up and his line had to be outside off stump for the left hander. He got it spot on in that case. And then he got Kallis - the key wicket - with an almost perfectly pitched leg break. The key is to make batsmen play - leg spin or off spin. Or even spin or pace. A leg spinner bowling outside off stump will not take wickets unless they are given away by batsmen. At this level that is not such a frequent occurrence. And no matter how many times he beats the bat, he is unlikely to be very successful pursuing this line of attack. In fact with such a line, his most likely wicket taking opportunity would be with the googly. Just as he did in the case of De Villiers. It is almost as if he is a mentally scarred bowler - afraid to attack the leg stump. That will not do in the long run. I am sure Dhoni and the team management can coax the best out of this talented leg spinner.
Dhoni led his team adroitly, innovatively and in an unorthodox fashion. This statement is true for the post Tea session on the 5th day alone. He did all that he needed to do and some more when he needed to be most alert. However one felt that he did not have his hands on the pulse of the game earlier. More on that follows.
For now, the Indian team Test team will retire, tired but victorious and in great spirits. They have not only routed South Africa by an innings at Eden but also managed to remain the World's No.1 ranked Test team at the end of the series.
Emotions
There is an unwritten rule when you write about Indian cricket. Dont criticize the team, its captain and the selectors when a match is won. Criticism is reserved for those occasions where the team loses the match. And preferably when it loses badly. Not following this rule is an immediate ground for experiencing general derision, disbelief and at the minimum a quizzical look at your person as if to say 'You still have all your marbles?' If you want to break this rule you are either a brave soul or a proven fool. Because you can rest assured that you will not have company. You will scarcely find an 'expert' worth his salt wanting to dig up the negatives when India wins. The public does not want to hear about it. There are actually two ways of looking at this. This could be a good journalistic idea because it gives you a unique track to follow up on, theoretically. But see, in India, theory can only get you so far. Practically this is nothing but disaster and you are hardly going to get anybody to agree. Or this could be the inconvenient truth.
Now if only sport and journalism were about agreeing mutually...
In summary India drew a home series with South Africa. It was a pity that this was just a 2 Test series, not allowing each team to mark a clear margin of victory as is possible with a 3 or 5 Test series. The manner in which India drew the series as well as India's strategies throughout this 2 Test series leaves much to be desired.
The No.1 team in the world makes the play. It pushes the other team to match up to it. To do that it needs attacking team strategies. Stocking up on the batting even when you have talent and experience in the form of Sehwag, Gambhir, Tendulkar and Laxman was a strange decision. Especially when you consider that this left the arguably weaker portion of India's game - the bowling - even more weaker. Now, consider that the Indian bowling attack - especially the spin combo of Harbhajan and Mishra - did not have a great time of it against Bangladesh, should India not have added some additional muscle there?
It might even have turned out that in the final day's play here an extra bowler gets the wickets earlier and we may not have needed to endure the nerve wracking final moments. Yes, critics and supporters alike will point out that India won this Test. But that would be to miss the woods for the trees. India needs the ability to consistently take 20 wickets throughout the world on all types of surfaces. And considering India's excellent batting lineup - which was sans Dravid in this series - we ought to consider playing 5 bowlers to win matches. The argument that India does not have an all rounder does not wash well. Mahendra Singh Dhoni is our all rounder. He is the one man in this team who handles two disciplines of the game very well and holds his place down without question. That is the definition of an all rounder.
Yes - India won the game and are still the No.1 ranked team in the world. But this team should not get easily satisfied. They can go farther. Much farther. With attacking strategies and penetrative bowling in place, all they would need to do is get the big guns in the batting department to be consistent. Things are looking up - for India and for Test cricket. For South Africa, they ought to be disappointed they will not go back with a Test series win in India. They could very well have gone home with just that if the last wicket partnership had stayed on there for 2 odd overs. Approximately 12 balls were the difference between South Africa winning this series and India drawing level. Approximately 12 balls were the difference between the No.1 team and the No.2. This Test match was a fitting end to the Test season for India. Now they will focus on domestic ODI and T20 engagements with the IPL also around the corner. No better frame of mind to tackle those games than with a victory under your belt against the No.2 ranked team in the world!
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Eden emotions
February 18th 2010 12:47
Two moments probably told us all that this Test match was going to be far more exciting than your average limited overs contest. Or even the average Test match. In the 3rd over after tea, Harbhajan raised his hands towards the heaven before bowling the last ball of the over which again was bluntly and solidly smothered down by Hashim Amla. He was asking for divine intervention to help budge Amla from the crease. A couple of overs later, a half push off Ishant gently rolled down and disturbed the stumps at the bowlers' end. The bail lifted and fell back smartly into place, atop the stumps! Today was going to be special. We all knew it. And it was. India won at Eden. But South Africa did not lose. In Hashim Amla they won. Amla won the most hearts at Eden - India's premier ground for cricket - with his impeccable defense and almost preternatural concentration skills. At times one felt that he had gotten into the skin of the bowler and worked out exactly what variations are going to come up and when in each over. He never once looked like getting out. Which is precisely why India chose the smart route. They picked up everybody else leaving him stranded. Who said sport is fair?
The 22 yards
Now this is going to be tricky. If India had not managed to win this match, this is probably what would have been the assessment of the Eden track. Too much grass was left on the surface which meant that the wicket was solidly bound together. Perhaps too solidly. What we saw today was not a 5th day wicket. There was practically no wear. No rough areas. Not much spin. And it was not as if there was too much swing throughout the match - conventional or reverse swing. What this match did have was a spate of centuries - 7 to be exact.
Luckily for India the match ended in a result - despite Amla. But the result was by no means predestined. In fact I would go so far as to say that this was not a result wicket and hence not a good Test match wicket. There, I have said it.
But then India has won. So all this does not matter to most people.
The Game
As Ravi Shastri repeated more than once during his post match ceremony the match was squandered by South Africa in the first day's play - when Harbhajan made his triple strike. That combined with Zaheer Khan's canny post Tea spell put paid to South Africa's hopes of raising a huge first innings total and put it beyond India to win the game.
That apart we saw two blood and guts innings from Amla. He alone among the South African batsmen came to terms with the Indian bowlers, their nuances and their limitations. But that alone is not enough for a batsman to survive for over 20 hours in the course of a Test match. We can safely say that when Rahul Dravid hangs up his boots, the game will not be bereft of a 'over my dead body' type of batsman. Entrenched batsmanship lives on - thanks to Hashim Amla.
Graeme Smith's poor game (poor series as a matter of fact) had as much of an influence as Duminy's and Prince's 'all at sea' efforts in both the Test matches. However the South African bowlers - including the unheralded Paul Harris can hold their heads high and look forward to high marks for their unflagging efforts throughout.
Coming to the victors of the game, it is said that great teams win from difficult and near impossible situations. Things were close to being that desperate today. But when the chips were down, the No.1 ranked team pulled together and held its nerves better. Much will no doubt be made of India's achievement of winning the game with just 3 specialist bowlers - as they were without Zaheer Khan. A theoretical question though raises its head - did India necessarily need the extra batsman? Or would it have made more sense to include 5 bowlers? More on that later. Harbhajan and Ishant carried the day for India. Harbhajan's lion hearted performance was almost singularly responsible for this victory. In fact one is convinced that it was his frequent switching the line from over to around the wicket and back which planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of Morne Morkel who had been essaying a rock solid defense till then. Ishant did the hard yards and generally did the clean up work without any complaint. His bowling is ideally suited to be used as a stock bowler and that is what he was today. Ishant also deserves special mention for achieving the almost impossible feat today. He beat Hashim Amla's bat - once!
Amit Mishra's was a strange performance. It is not so much that he is not ready or fit to play at this level as his mental rigidity in continuing to bowl on or outside the off stump to right handed batsmen. In fact it probably helped Mishra on the 4th day that he was bowling to Smith first up and his line had to be outside off stump for the left hander. He got it spot on in that case. And then he got Kallis - the key wicket - with an almost perfectly pitched leg break. The key is to make batsmen play - leg spin or off spin. Or even spin or pace. A leg spinner bowling outside off stump will not take wickets unless they are given away by batsmen. At this level that is not such a frequent occurrence. And no matter how many times he beats the bat, he is unlikely to be very successful pursuing this line of attack. In fact with such a line, his most likely wicket taking opportunity would be with the googly. Just as he did in the case of De Villiers. It is almost as if he is a mentally scarred bowler - afraid to attack the leg stump. That will not do in the long run. I am sure Dhoni and the team management can coax the best out of this talented leg spinner.
Dhoni led his team adroitly, innovatively and in an unorthodox fashion. This statement is true for the post Tea session on the 5th day alone. He did all that he needed to do and some more when he needed to be most alert. However one felt that he did not have his hands on the pulse of the game earlier. More on that follows.
For now, the Indian team Test team will retire, tired but victorious and in great spirits. They have not only routed South Africa by an innings at Eden but also managed to remain the World's No.1 ranked Test team at the end of the series.
Emotions
There is an unwritten rule when you write about Indian cricket. Dont criticize the team, its captain and the selectors when a match is won. Criticism is reserved for those occasions where the team loses the match. And preferably when it loses badly. Not following this rule is an immediate ground for experiencing general derision, disbelief and at the minimum a quizzical look at your person as if to say 'You still have all your marbles?' If you want to break this rule you are either a brave soul or a proven fool. Because you can rest assured that you will not have company. You will scarcely find an 'expert' worth his salt wanting to dig up the negatives when India wins. The public does not want to hear about it. There are actually two ways of looking at this. This could be a good journalistic idea because it gives you a unique track to follow up on, theoretically. But see, in India, theory can only get you so far. Practically this is nothing but disaster and you are hardly going to get anybody to agree. Or this could be the inconvenient truth.
Now if only sport and journalism were about agreeing mutually...
In summary India drew a home series with South Africa. It was a pity that this was just a 2 Test series, not allowing each team to mark a clear margin of victory as is possible with a 3 or 5 Test series. The manner in which India drew the series as well as India's strategies throughout this 2 Test series leaves much to be desired.
The No.1 team in the world makes the play. It pushes the other team to match up to it. To do that it needs attacking team strategies. Stocking up on the batting even when you have talent and experience in the form of Sehwag, Gambhir, Tendulkar and Laxman was a strange decision. Especially when you consider that this left the arguably weaker portion of India's game - the bowling - even more weaker. Now, consider that the Indian bowling attack - especially the spin combo of Harbhajan and Mishra - did not have a great time of it against Bangladesh, should India not have added some additional muscle there?
It might even have turned out that in the final day's play here an extra bowler gets the wickets earlier and we may not have needed to endure the nerve wracking final moments. Yes, critics and supporters alike will point out that India won this Test. But that would be to miss the woods for the trees. India needs the ability to consistently take 20 wickets throughout the world on all types of surfaces. And considering India's excellent batting lineup - which was sans Dravid in this series - we ought to consider playing 5 bowlers to win matches. The argument that India does not have an all rounder does not wash well. Mahendra Singh Dhoni is our all rounder. He is the one man in this team who handles two disciplines of the game very well and holds his place down without question. That is the definition of an all rounder.
Yes - India won the game and are still the No.1 ranked team in the world. But this team should not get easily satisfied. They can go farther. Much farther. With attacking strategies and penetrative bowling in place, all they would need to do is get the big guns in the batting department to be consistent. Things are looking up - for India and for Test cricket. For South Africa, they ought to be disappointed they will not go back with a Test series win in India. They could very well have gone home with just that if the last wicket partnership had stayed on there for 2 odd overs. Approximately 12 balls were the difference between South Africa winning this series and India drawing level. Approximately 12 balls were the difference between the No.1 team and the No.2. This Test match was a fitting end to the Test season for India. Now they will focus on domestic ODI and T20 engagements with the IPL also around the corner. No better frame of mind to tackle those games than with a victory under your belt against the No.2 ranked team in the world!
Sanchit - its true. India did not get to bowl all its overs. But then we never know what might have happened if Kallis were to have batted with the benefit of bright light either .
At the end, despite the delay (which was not due to rain but due to tardy actions of the ground staff) just 2 overs or so remained between the teams. It was that close.
. At the end, despite the delay (which was not due to rain but due to tardy actions of the ground staff) just 2 overs or so remained between the teams. It was that close.
I know right now we are thinking about the batting bench strength. But really the danger area right now for Indian cricket is spin.
We just dont have anybody out there. And Harbhajan - regardless of how he bowls cannot be dropped. We cannot afford that. Mishra - well I have said enough about him in my earlier post. He cannot dream to pick up wickets bowling the line he is bowling or with his action/approach to the crease. Too many things have to change. At the very least, his line has to change. Otherwise, he is not going to pick up too many wickets at the international level.
And the best spinner in the land - Murali Karthik - will not be picked because he is not in the good books of the BCCI.
Consider this - in a season or two, if (or when) we come to the position that we do not have any great spinners, then there will be little to no point in scheduling home Test series. That is how bad our state is as far as spin is concerned.
We just dont have anybody out there. And Harbhajan - regardless of how he bowls cannot be dropped. We cannot afford that. Mishra - well I have said enough about him in my earlier post. He cannot dream to pick up wickets bowling the line he is bowling or with his action/approach to the crease. Too many things have to change. At the very least, his line has to change. Otherwise, he is not going to pick up too many wickets at the international level.
And the best spinner in the land - Murali Karthik - will not be picked because he is not in the good books of the BCCI.
Consider this - in a season or two, if (or when) we come to the position that we do not have any great spinners, then there will be little to no point in scheduling home Test series. That is how bad our state is as far as spin is concerned.
Till my last breath 'YES'.
This is what I wished, when Australia was unbeatable.
This is what seemed to be impossible during 1995s.
For all die hard fans read this book by Saumya Bhattacharya, "You Must Like Cricket? Memoirs of an Indian Cricket Fan
Review: You Must Like Cricket? by Soumya Bhattacharya | Books | The Guardian
This is a review link. I can recommend this book to any one who has ever watched India playing cricket.
For me, a lot has changed in past decade. During 1990s, I backed up India even though I knew the fact if Sachin goes, my hope goes.
But in past 5 years, I support a team which wins matches. So after a decade of backing up losing side, I am now supporting a winning team.
This is what I wished for since childhood.
One more thing to add, India won against Pakistan during 2005.
"It was India's first victory over Pakistan in six Tests at Kolkata."
This is the best match for me.
This is what I wished, when Australia was unbeatable.
This is what seemed to be impossible during 1995s.
For all die hard fans read this book by Saumya Bhattacharya, "You Must Like Cricket? Memoirs of an Indian Cricket Fan
Review: You Must Like Cricket? by Soumya Bhattacharya | Books | The Guardian
This is a review link. I can recommend this book to any one who has ever watched India playing cricket.
For me, a lot has changed in past decade. During 1990s, I backed up India even though I knew the fact if Sachin goes, my hope goes.
But in past 5 years, I support a team which wins matches. So after a decade of backing up losing side, I am now supporting a winning team.
This is what I wished for since childhood.
One more thing to add, India won against Pakistan during 2005.
"It was India's first victory over Pakistan in six Tests at Kolkata."
This is the best match for me.
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Guys be honest.
Cricket is a combination of Batting, Bowling & Fielding .
Let me take few important points for quick discussion,
Batting review - The bitter truth is we lack consistancy even if we play few matches very well. Take the last two series for instance, in the first match, against South Africa we went down by innings defeat in our own soil. Take the previous series in Bangladesh, we were almost got cornored in the first innnings of the first Test. Australians when it was dominating it never got defeated or cornored so easily.
Verdict - We defenetly have the potential in the playing 11 itself, but needs consistency.
Bowling Review - Ishant, Zaheer, Harbhajan are good bowlers. But they lack something which we saw in Wasim / Waqar / Mcgrath / Warne etc.
Verdict - The current bowlers are good but not the best to break the partnership of any opponent batsman who will be a threat.
Fielding Review - Everybody knows where we stand in fielding. We need fielders like Robin Singh / Azhar / kaif / Jonty etc.
Verdict - Yuvi alone is good as of now. We lack the best fielding combination to cut the boundaries , singles & catches.
Bench Strength - I remember Australians continued to win matches in the abscence of Warne , Mcgrath etc (even when they rested their key players).
They have made some kind of benchmark, which is forcing me to take examples from them itself. Our batting bench strength in One day alone is strong.
Verdict - I am surprised, why we are unable to see new fast bowlers / spinners in International matches other than the regular bowlers.
Captain Review - We need a cool headed performing captain. fortunately we have this in Dhoni.
Verdict - India is in safe hands.( But he needs to be acknowledged by other 10 charged players as well for extrodinary victories)
Fighting Spirit - This we have felt a lot from pakistanis during Akram, Rameez Raja days and also from Aussies a lot because of Beaven, Gilchrist, Ponting etc.
Verdict Self explanatory
Good Finishers -Beaven & Vivian Richard are good examples of Finishers.
Verdict Many times we have lost after comming close to victory. Forunately the frequency of such incidents has reduced now.
A No 1 team, should win without struggle, and it should be a cakewalk executed effortlessly .
In One Day series, One Year before, I remember the way we outplayed Srilanka in Srilanka 4/0(I think) and then against England 5/0 (if not for the terror attack we would have won 7/0). All our victories shd come that way (too selfish, right).
In the past, this was executed very well by the Australians for 10 years both in test & One day (until 2 yrs before). During that period, without seeing the ICC points anybody can easily guess that Australians are No 1. Only such a performing team can boast themselves as No 1, because the whole world agreed and not just the Australians. Strictly speaking not our team with the current performance (eventhough as per the ranking we are). We almost lost the No 1 ranking had we never won the second test. We cannot be proud of such kind of No1 title. The recognition that we are No 1 , should be accepted by any foreighner and not just by the Indians (just b'caus of the Ranking).
In reply to Shewag's surcastic remark, Bangladesh captain said India is not great threat like Aussies or South Africans. What I am trying to point out is we have failed to create a fearful impression even with a weak team like Bangladesh.( This clearly shows that we dont have universal acceptance and we are No 1 only in the book)
Summary - Even if we close our eyes and without starring the ICC points, not just the Indians, the whole world should acknowledge that India is No 1 in cricket. Only that time we deserve to be No 1.
What say?
Note - There were days long back that I use to be OFF the whole next day if India gets defeated or very relaxed if India won any match. So dont take me wrong as if I am not patriotic. Infact, I am a die hard fan of Indian cricket.
Think, I have vented my emotions a lot seeing my favourite topic after a very long time(may be years).
I remember the slogan which use to inspire me a lot "Miles to go before I sleep". (hmmm, let me retire to bed)
Cricket is a combination of Batting, Bowling & Fielding .
Let me take few important points for quick discussion,
Batting review - The bitter truth is we lack consistancy even if we play few matches very well. Take the last two series for instance, in the first match, against South Africa we went down by innings defeat in our own soil. Take the previous series in Bangladesh, we were almost got cornored in the first innnings of the first Test. Australians when it was dominating it never got defeated or cornored so easily.
Verdict - We defenetly have the potential in the playing 11 itself, but needs consistency.
Bowling Review - Ishant, Zaheer, Harbhajan are good bowlers. But they lack something which we saw in Wasim / Waqar / Mcgrath / Warne etc.
Verdict - The current bowlers are good but not the best to break the partnership of any opponent batsman who will be a threat.
Fielding Review - Everybody knows where we stand in fielding. We need fielders like Robin Singh / Azhar / kaif / Jonty etc.
Verdict - Yuvi alone is good as of now. We lack the best fielding combination to cut the boundaries , singles & catches.
Bench Strength - I remember Australians continued to win matches in the abscence of Warne , Mcgrath etc (even when they rested their key players).
They have made some kind of benchmark, which is forcing me to take examples from them itself. Our batting bench strength in One day alone is strong.
Verdict - I am surprised, why we are unable to see new fast bowlers / spinners in International matches other than the regular bowlers.
Captain Review - We need a cool headed performing captain. fortunately we have this in Dhoni.
Verdict - India is in safe hands.( But he needs to be acknowledged by other 10 charged players as well for extrodinary victories)
Fighting Spirit - This we have felt a lot from pakistanis during Akram, Rameez Raja days and also from Aussies a lot because of Beaven, Gilchrist, Ponting etc.
Verdict Self explanatory
Good Finishers -Beaven & Vivian Richard are good examples of Finishers.
Verdict Many times we have lost after comming close to victory. Forunately the frequency of such incidents has reduced now.
A No 1 team, should win without struggle, and it should be a cakewalk executed effortlessly .
In One Day series, One Year before, I remember the way we outplayed Srilanka in Srilanka 4/0(I think) and then against England 5/0 (if not for the terror attack we would have won 7/0). All our victories shd come that way (too selfish, right).
In the past, this was executed very well by the Australians for 10 years both in test & One day (until 2 yrs before). During that period, without seeing the ICC points anybody can easily guess that Australians are No 1. Only such a performing team can boast themselves as No 1, because the whole world agreed and not just the Australians. Strictly speaking not our team with the current performance (eventhough as per the ranking we are). We almost lost the No 1 ranking had we never won the second test. We cannot be proud of such kind of No1 title. The recognition that we are No 1 , should be accepted by any foreighner and not just by the Indians (just b'caus of the Ranking).
In reply to Shewag's surcastic remark, Bangladesh captain said India is not great threat like Aussies or South Africans. What I am trying to point out is we have failed to create a fearful impression even with a weak team like Bangladesh.( This clearly shows that we dont have universal acceptance and we are No 1 only in the book)
Summary - Even if we close our eyes and without starring the ICC points, not just the Indians, the whole world should acknowledge that India is No 1 in cricket. Only that time we deserve to be No 1.
What say?
Note - There were days long back that I use to be OFF the whole next day if India gets defeated or very relaxed if India won any match. So dont take me wrong as if I am not patriotic. Infact, I am a die hard fan of Indian cricket.
Think, I have vented my emotions a lot seeing my favourite topic after a very long time(may be years).
I remember the slogan which use to inspire me a lot "Miles to go before I sleep". (hmmm, let me retire to bed)
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goyal.sanchit
New Member
Facebook is not really suitable for discussion! Infact you wont see discussions happening on any group in facebook. If you are on Orkut then you can join few communities where healthy discussion tkaes place and moderation is good to keep haters and spammers away!
Well for an arguement it can be said that Maybe India would have wrapped up things even more quickly had Zaheer khan not been injured. But then there are no ifs and buts in cricket or even life for that matter!
And SA faced the same situation twice v/s England but they couldnt get the team out. Thats exactly is the difference between good teams and great teams i.e. to win the match from loosing position or when situation is challenging.
Even India is not good in that aspect as it continues to loose tri-nation tournaments and ICC events but thrash the opposition in bilateral series!! :lol: :lol:
Australia even with their depleted team is an example of how a team can manage to win even from loosing positions. Recent examples are matches in Ind-Aus odi series and T20 against pakistan.
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