Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
May be off topic; What cost of speakers we should.drive with a DAC of 1.25L? Wouldn't our speaker and room start to bottleneck the cost of the DAC?
Effect of DACs on a system
- Thread starter Thirumalkumaran
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Yelamanchili manohar
Well-Known Member
Haha..I think those looking for a 1.25 L dac, do have a suitable chain of preamp, poweramp and speakers to recognise the difference that a dac brings. As to the cost of the speakers, I'd say as much as you can afford
Well FM Mayank Shah has at the moment the same DAC as I do, if I am not mistaking. And if he is looking for an upgrade on that then it will have to be a substantive one, be rest assured that he has the chain to compliment the upgrade coming his way!
Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
Thanks for stating this captain obvious… “the best you can afford” adds a lot of value to the post!Haha..I think those looking for a 1.25 L dac, do have a suitable chain of preamp, poweramp and speakers to recognise the difference that a dac brings. As to the cost of the speakers, I'd say as much as you can afford
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Even otherwise, makes sense to get the best dac and transport you can and even if that is the top component in the chain, other than the other way around, for the best sound,
Even entry level speaker, as long as they do the basics right, will make better better music with a better dac. the other way around ie a better speaker can reveal the problems with ones source/amplification and give a feeling that the sound not being very good..eg sharper, grainy, losing the feel etc etc..
Even entry level speaker, as long as they do the basics right, will make better better music with a better dac. the other way around ie a better speaker can reveal the problems with ones source/amplification and give a feeling that the sound not being very good..eg sharper, grainy, losing the feel etc etc..
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Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
Does it mean that we need to hunt speakers which go right with this, than to get an electronics to go with your speaker, which might be easier? And room treatment would be easier if the speakers are set first?
The reason I ask these is I know guys using 12l revels and 5l elacs driven by cheaper dacs.. still wondering how much of a benefit this might bring? Btw, what if the current dac is not bottlenecking speakers worth 20L?
If we assume that the speaker worth 20L is highly resolving and the expectation is to maximize the sound quality from it, it will need a fairly accurate, resolving and musical source which is not usually easy to find at lower price points (relative)
What DACs are your friends using ? would be good to know as there are some very good DACs available but cheap or not may depend on their budget. ie 1500 USD can be considered cheap by some and expensive by others depending on the budget whey want to spend on audio.
The best approach which I have learnt for myself is 1. Speaker for your Room 2. Amp for your speaker 3. Best source you can afford.
1 and 2 are critical from a Synergy point of view in that order. Get 1 wrong and thats when you need a lot of room treatment which is very difficult and potentially expensive to get right since if not done well for whatever you gain you lose something else.
Get 2 ie speaker and amp synergy wrong and your speakers will not perform to their potential and what you may see as a problem of the source eg very bright due to the amp not able to deliver current can be blamed on the source as well.
IF you get a good source, you are at least with the peace that the source is right and between tweaks around 1 and 2 you can get the sound right. But get the source wrong ( eg something which has a thin sound) and you end up compensating for that with other components and 2 compensations dont make anything better..only makes it worse since both as distortions
I would put areas like Power/Room treatment/cables etc only after that. again is my view..but has worked for me after trial and error and learning from other experienced audiophiles
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Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
Thanks for moving this to a new thread..
We used to a general rule of 60:40 for speakers and amps. Now.. where and how the source comes in picture?
I’m in line with @arj i would choose speakers 1st then amp and then source. The answer would have been straight forward if the speakers of the DAC requirer was known. This makes me wonder what ratio of cost does dac come in?
If it is around 10% then does op use a 15L speakers? (as the requirement is used) if yes.. it’s fair.. but if not what makes the current dac not performing up to the mark?
BTW, the guy who uses the revels is using a focal dac (not got the details) and the Elac one uses a schit gungnir.
We used to a general rule of 60:40 for speakers and amps. Now.. where and how the source comes in picture?
I’m in line with @arj i would choose speakers 1st then amp and then source. The answer would have been straight forward if the speakers of the DAC requirer was known. This makes me wonder what ratio of cost does dac come in?
If it is around 10% then does op use a 15L speakers? (as the requirement is used) if yes.. it’s fair.. but if not what makes the current dac not performing up to the mark?
BTW, the guy who uses the revels is using a focal dac (not got the details) and the Elac one uses a schit gungnir.
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I find it very difficult to define these %ges to be honest especially since DACs have only become cheaper and cost/quality reduced but taking out a DAC from your plan/budget is not the right path.
Maybe 30-35% for source 35-45% for speaker , 30-35% for the amp..go with basic cables and no treatment and as everything settles down start playing around with the rest but all of these are debatable and very difficult to compare since price is also based on buying used vs new, customs duties etc etc..
If you look at it with the basics, Amplifiers amplify the signal that means the good and the flaws in the signal gets amplified and then adds its own distortion ie both the good and the flaw gets amplified and then distorted. Hence your distortion has increased even more . The contribution of the source to the distortion is highest since even a small percentage gets amplified by amp..
Having a better amplifier might reduce the distortion but it will still amplify the flaws..and hence generally speaking to improve the sound, makes sense to get a source which is as real as possible even if the amp is constrained by your budget
Usually at 2-2.5L you should be playing at a very good Level and after that the speaker/Amp might make more sense.
For his equipment I would say a Schitt Yggdrassil would be ideal but there are so many these days and my knowledge is limited.
I am not talking TTs at this point since that is a very different discussion.
Let me Simplify :
DAC in Digital Audio = Cart & Phono in Vinyl Setup...
Are Highend DACs worth the investment? If your setup mainly relies on Digital media and Streaming Sources, Definitely yes.
At what point it becomes VFM and Area of diminishing returns, depends solely on individual budget and expectations.
DAC in Digital Audio = Cart & Phono in Vinyl Setup...
Are Highend DACs worth the investment? If your setup mainly relies on Digital media and Streaming Sources, Definitely yes.
At what point it becomes VFM and Area of diminishing returns, depends solely on individual budget and expectations.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
Speakers even in the range of 5 to 6L may not be out of place for such a dac unless it is some overpriced mainstream brand that gives you very low value for money. However synergy is key rather than price. The basic rules of "right speaker for the room / taste" and "right amp for the speaker" are very important as others have rightly pointed out.
absolutely right
Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
Might be a late enlightner for me.. recently got an r2r dac for my Pi as a HAT, and paired with Norge 1000 and Diamond mishras.
These were tested on a Hifiman ananda compared with JDS EL IIs! (To ensure a reference is taken)
Guys! I now understand the value of DAC on the chain! it makes the whole setup come as close to analog in terms of sound reproduction!
These were tested on a Hifiman ananda compared with JDS EL IIs! (To ensure a reference is taken)
Guys! I now understand the value of DAC on the chain! it makes the whole setup come as close to analog in terms of sound reproduction!
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Walnut finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
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