ESSAY: HAVE WE BEEN WASTING OUR MONEY ON STREAMING?

[Analogous]

Doing the math; but does is add up?

Have we been wasting our money on streaming? - Atwood Magazine

With all music at the touch of the button, what benefits can we find in turning down the tap of streaming? One music lover explores the advantages and disadvantages of unlimited music.

atwoodmagazine.com

 

[arj]

Well some would say a hifi itself does not add up especially when you consider the real estate it takes.

Overall as an expense some like me prefer it as a capital cost over recurring cost ( unless you can expense it for tax) so prefer owning music instead of renting. I do have spotify as that helps discover music but the ownership of physical media is something else !

 

[sbg]

Isn't this a cup of Tea/coffee for a month of access .
Given the quality and the Desi catalogue offered here I prefer not to do any math right now.
This is besides spending on hard copies of CD and vinyl.

 

[Nitin K]

I just renewed Spotify after a long time to discover new music & some old tracks for which I do not have the CD's. Imo for just Rs. 59/- for 3 months & Rs. 119 per month thereafter is extremely reasonable. Hence I don't find any reason to complain where the price is concerned. One coffee at Starbucks will easily surpass the per month subscription amount in just one sitting.

 

[Analogous]

It’s about choices we have and make
Depending on the skill and expertise of the set up I have heard fabulous sounding music from vinyl, CDs, stored digital and streaming.
It’s the economics of each that boggles the mind when comparing them.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

The math for Indian listeners will be very different. We pay just Rs 99 pm for Apple Music lossless here. That’s Rs 1200 per annum. Assuming a foreseeable period of even 20 years that’s just Rs 24000 at today’s value of Rupee.

Now how many CDs can you buy in that amount? Considering Indian recordings at Rs 200 and international CDs at even as low as Rs 1000, we are talking of average Rs 600 per CD investment, fetching you just 40 odd CDs! And LPs? Not more than 15-20.

Of course we are comparing only the economics here. And also not taking into account the resale value of the CDs/LPs, which, given how technology is fast evolving, would be difficult to determine in 20 years from now. But even if one recovers the amount they spent, you got to consider the opportunity cost of the invested amount for a long period like that. With the exception of first print LPs, other physical media don’t appreciate like collectibles.

But beyond pure math, the intangible value of physical media - right from purchasing to organising/displaying to picking to handling to maintaining it cannot be put into money. I don’t think I’d ever part with my CD collection (glimpse of a part of it in my DP) just because I do a lot of listening through streaming these days. Yes, I don’t listen to two CDs in a day like before, but even listening to those one or two CDs over a weekend is an experience I treasure.

And yes at the level at which streamer technology currently is, even my Rs 1 lac streamer isn’t able to provide the sound quality of listening to the CD even using the lossless subscription. But the difference isn’t day and night and I believe would keep reducing.

Having said all this, I believe the constraining commodity when it comes to media (streaming or even physical) isn’t money. It is on fact ‘Time’! I doubt I’d be able to listen to my entire CD collection an average of more than say twice. And so you should too. Don’t believe? Well, let’s do the maths. 1000 CDs x an hour each x 2. That’s 2000 hrs. Assuming I continue to listen to even to 2 CDs on an average in a week, that would take 1000 weeks. That’s close to 20 years isn’t it?

 

[Analogous]

The math for Indian listeners will be very different. We pay just Rs 99 pm for Apple Music lossless here. That’s Rs 1200 per annum. Assuming a foreseeable period of even 20 years that’s just Rs 24000 at today’s value of Rupee.

Now how many CDs can you buy in that amount? Considering Indian recordings at Rs 200 and international CDs at even as low as Rs 1000, we are talking of average Rs 600 per CD investment, fetching you just 40 odd CDs! And LPs? Not more than 15-20.

Of course we are comparing only the economics here. And also not taking into account the resale value of the CDs/LPs, which, given how technology is fast evolving, would be difficult to determine in 20 years from now. But even if one recovers the amount they spent, you got to consider the opportunity cost of the invested amount for a long period like that. With the exception of first print LPs, other physical media don’t appreciate like collectibles.

But beyond pure math, the intangible value of physical media - right from purchasing to organising/displaying to picking to handling to maintaining it cannot be put into money. I don’t think I’d ever part with my CD collection (glimpse of a part of it in my DP) just because I do a lot of listening through streaming these days. Yes, I don’t listen to two CDs in a day like before, but even listening to those one or two CDs over a weekend is an experience I treasure.

And yes at the level at which streamer technology currently is, even my Rs 1 lac streamer isn’t able to provide the sound quality of listening to the CD even using the lossless subscription. But the difference isn’t day and night and I believe would keep reducing.

Having said all this, I believe the constraining commodity when it comes to media (streaming or even physical) isn’t money. It is on fact ‘Time’! I doubt I’d be able to listen to my entire CD collection an average of more than say twice. And so you should too. Don’t believe? Well, let’s do the maths. 1000 CDs x an hour each x 2. That’s 2000 hrs. Assuming I continue to listen to even to 2 CDs on an average in a week, that would take 1000 weeks. That’s close to 20 years isn’t it?

Wow!
Thanks for thinking (and calculating) this through.
It does boggle the mind
Wait! What are we discussing? Why?

I apologise. I think the time spent on this topic would be better spent listening to music whichever way we like or have in hand.

 

[arj]

The math for Indian listeners will be very different. We pay just Rs 99 pm for Apple Music lossless here. That’s Rs 1200 per annum. Assuming a foreseeable period of even 20 years that’s just Rs 24000 at today’s value of Rupee.

Now how many CDs can you buy in that amount? Considering Indian recordings at Rs 200 and international CDs at even as low as Rs 1000, we are talking of average Rs 600 per CD investment, fetching you just 40 odd CDs! And LPs? Not more than 15-20.

Of course we are comparing only the economics here. And also not taking into account the resale value of the CDs/LPs, which, given how technology is fast evolving, would be difficult to determine in 20 years from now. But even if one recovers the amount they spent, you got to consider the opportunity cost of the invested amount for a long period like that. With the exception of first print LPs, other physical media don’t appreciate like collectibles.

But beyond pure math, the intangible value of physical media - right from purchasing to organising/displaying to picking to handling to maintaining it cannot be put into money. I don’t think I’d ever part with my CD collection (glimpse of a part of it in my DP) just because I do a lot of listening through streaming these days. Yes, I don’t listen to two CDs in a day like before, but even listening to those one or two CDs over a weekend is an experience I treasure.

I agree this is the right approach for anyone getting into Music now, but if someone already has a Music collection that is where the calculations get tricky around how much would one pay
ie how many streaming services do it get ? Spotify/apple etc are great to discover music but they are not truly lossless (ie spotify) . Perhaps Tidal and Quboz Premium cuts the ice but at 10USD/month each might not be econimically worth it for someone already having most of the music they like .

But for someone getting in new it makes most sense to stream, identify what they might really own and get only those unlike many like me who have CDs and vinyl heard only once or twice a year or even less.

And yes at the level at which streamer technology currently is, even my Rs 1 lac streamer isn’t able to provide the sound quality of listening to the CD even using the lossless subscription. But the difference isn’t day and night and I believe would keep reducing.

Having said all this, I believe the constraining commodity when it comes to media (streaming or even physical) isn’t money. It is on fact ‘Time’! I doubt I’d be able to listen to my entire CD collection an average of more than say twice. And so you should too. Don’t believe? Well, let’s do the maths. 1000 CDs x an hour each x 2. That’s 2000 hrs. Assuming I continue to listen to even to 2 CDs on an average in a week, that would take 1000 weeks. That’s close to 20 years isn’t it?

yeah..time is the luxury in Hifi !

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Wow!
Thanks for thinking (and calculating) this through.
It does boggle the mind
Wait! What are we discussing? Why?

I apologise. I think the time spent on this topic would be better spent listening to music whichever way we like or have in hand.

Wasn’t it you who started the thread? With an all-caps title to effect. And now you think of time after wasting so much of ours replying to it?

But yes, all the time we spend in this forum, rather, all the time we spend on everything else comes at the cost of time to listen to music!

Spotify/apple etc are great to discover music but they are not truly lossless

Why do you say Apple Music is not lossless? There are ways to listen it lossless through the stereo system.

for someone already having most of the music they like

Do we ever have enough?

 

[arj]

Why do you say Apple Music is not lossless? There are ways to listen it lossless through the stereo system.

I meant the Spotify. Apple sounds "Cooked" is what i was told..never tried it though

 

[Analogous]

Wasn’t it you who started the thread?

Yes. Hence the apology

 

[mbhangui]

Why do you say Apple Music is not lossless? There are ways to listen it lossless through the stereo system.

Sachin and myself did spend some trying to make apple music thing work. The thing is spotify is system agnostic. You can play it from any device anywhere (Windows, Mac, linux, FreeBSD, etc) and it works the same. The convenience that spotify provides is available only when you use airplay with something like airport express. But airplay is lossless only when the sampling rate is 44.1 kHz. If you want to truly play lossless than you require an IOS device or android with minimum version 14 and that restricts your ability to consume apple music subscription with a quality better than spotify.

 

[heliumflight]

If you want to truly play lossless than you require an IOS device or android with minimum version 14 and that restricts your ability to consume apple music subscription with a quality better than spotify.

How much does the yearly plan for Apple music cost? Is it better than Tidal sq?

 

[Analogous]

Rd.100 per month currently

 

[mbhangui]

How much does the yearly plan for Apple music cost? Is it better than Tidal sq?

It will definitely be better. If you know about the tidal scam you will now know that tidal was giving you a lossy format. They had a wonderful ride on the gullibility of audiophiles obsession with the sampling rate of digital music. So one can say Tidal = Spotify

Tidal 'HiFi' is NOT lossless - GoldenSound

It seems that TIDAL's new 'HiFi' tier does not actually offer true lossless music for many tracks. I do some testing to show this.

goldensound.audio

 

[heliumflight]

Can you guide me as a dummy and instruct how I can register for Apple music lossless music? Do I have to buy an iphone?

HiFi Rig: Cambridge Audio Cxn v2 + Cyrus6 / Elekit tu8730 300b + ASI Live line power cable + ASI Live line Reference IC + Townsend Isolda speaker cables + Linn Keilidh speakers

 

[mbhangui]

Can you guide me as a dummy and instruct how I can register for Apple music lossless music? Do I have to buy an iphone?

HiFi Rig: Cambridge Audio Cxn v2 + Cyrus6 / Elekit tu8730 300b + ASI Live line power cable + ASI Live line Reference IC + Townsend Isolda speaker cables + Linn Keilidh speakers

No you don't have to buy an iphone.
1. Register your id on apple.com with your name, shipping address, card details, etc. I added money to my apple account using netbanking.
2. go to music.apple.com. I think you get 2 or 3 months free (don't remember). Once the free trial period is over, you will get charged
3. You can have the apple music android app to consume music. But it will not be lossless because android does some stupid things like windows used to do. But android 14 onwards will be lossless IIRC.
4. You require an IOS device only if you do not want any headache worrying about flac, DSD, sampling rate, etc and if your brain thinks and also hears lossless is better than lossy.

NOTE: I use an old 2014 mac mini with some hack to upgrade it to the latest Mac OSX version and one app known as Vincent's Lossless switcher.

 

[heliumflight]

Can you guide me as a dummy and instruct how I can register for Apple music lossless music? Do I have to buy an iphone?

HiFi Rig: Cambridge Audio Cxn v2 + Cyrus6 / Elekit tu8730 300b + ASI Live line power cable + ASI Live line Reference IC + Townsend Isolda speaker cables + Linn Keilidh speakers

No you don't have to buy an iphone.
1. Register your id on apple.com with your name, shipping address, card details, etc. I added money to my apple account using netbanking.
2. go to music.apple.com. I think you get 2 or 3 months free (don't remember). Once the free trial period is over, you will get charged
3. You can have the apple music android app to consume music. But it will not be lossless because android does some stupid things like windows used to do. But android 14 onwards will be lossless IIRC.
4. You require an IOS device only if you do not want any headache worrying about flac, DSD, sampling rate, etc and if your brain thinks and also hears lossless is better than lossy.

NOTE: I use an old 2014 mac mini with some hack to upgrade it to the latest Mac OSX version and one app known as Vincent's Lossless switcher.

I will call you, to understand this. Dm sent

 

[Analogous]

if your brain thinks and also hears lossless is better than lossy.

This is so true!!!

If we think (or read description) of the stream or file as lossless we believe it better sounding.
I understand that it’s possible to make a lossless (FLAC) file from a MP3 source !!! I suppose this will contain the same amount of info as the MP3. But can it sound better?

How often do we compare the same track lossy vs lossless in day to day listening ?

A good quality recording is more important than lossless or lossy files in playback
If it sounds good that’s all that matters

 

[mbhangui]

A good quality recording is more important than lossless or lossy files in playback
If it sounds good that’s all that matters

So damn true. Good recording is the most important. A good recording will have a high dynamic range. There are tools which tell you the DR in your digital file. I have good mp3 recordings that are better than Hi-Res flacs.

Recently I came across recordings from the African subcontinent. The DR in those tracks are amazing. Some of them are mp3 and while listening I accidentally found that they were mp3 (Toumani Diabate's recordings).