Hello and need AVR+Speaker Advice

[vemind]

Greetings all and a big thanks for an ec=xcellent forum! I am a new recruit to these forums, and am now addicted!!

I am seeking help in finalizing a HT system with the following ideas:

GIVEN:
I have an excellent 50 inch Samsung Plasma, P50A550.
The HTR is for the lounge area size 18 feet by 16.5 feet

I want to replace my old Bose lifestyle 5 with a new system to be used 50% for movies and 50% for music (not to forget about 1 hr of Tata Sky every day).

I would like a good future proof AVR and 5.1 speakers. My budget is Rs 100,000/-

In this budget I hope to buy:
+ A good AVR
+5.1 Speakers (on wall, as the area is already too cluttered)
+a good DVD player with HD (not investing in Blu-ray right away).

SO FAR:
I have researched enough on the furums (thanks all) and some other websites, and am torn between Onkyo 806, Yamaha RX1800 (not sure if available in India) or Denon 2309.

Question:
1. To be really future proof, would it be better to plonk most money on AVR and upgrade speakers at a later time?
2. What is the best value for money, and yet future proof? I somehow prefer brands Onkyo, Yamaha and Denon brands (maybe because I read these most often on the web and in this forum).
3. Speakers: I have seen several, but am just not able to decide. I guess this has to wait for after I decide on the AVR. Any advice here, specially, if matching speakers to AVR is an issue?
4. A dumb one; how do you review a demo? while I think I have a keen year for music, but I feel that all demo rooms are a sterile environment in which one gets to listen to music, so how does one really 'check out' a new system?

Any and all inputs are welcome!!

 

[spirovious]

So some of good combinations

1.Onkyo 606/706 + wharfedale Diamond 9 HCP
(36k/55k?) (35k)

2.Denon 1909 + Kef KHT 3005
(38K) (95K)


For mov go for Onkyo & for both mov ,music Denon(all future proof)
Other spks can be Tannoy F1 custom,Jamo

DVD player-
Budget- 1.LG DV 388 (3700 with HDMI cable)
2.Philips (45k)
Performers- 1.Denon 1740 (15k)
2.Pioneer 610 (6.5k)
3.Oppo 981 (19K)

 

[vemind]

Spirovious; Special thanks! Deeply appreciate all your inputs!

Can you advise, or point me to a thread on the site for demo/dealers for
-Wharfdate

-Denon

-KEF

Thanks.

Further, what is a good way to 'demo' these compbos? any pointers are welcome. While have a good 'listening year' is there anything specific to look out for?

So some of good combinations

1.Onkyo 606/706 + wharfedale Diamond 9 HCP
(36k/55k?) (35k)

2.Denon 1909 + Kef KHT 3005
(38K) (95K)


For mov go for Onkyo & for both mov ,music Denon(all future proof)
Other spks can be Tannoy F1 custom,Jamo

DVD player-
Budget- 1.LG DV 388 (3700 with HDMI cable)
2.Philips (45k)
Performers- 1.Denon 1740 (15k)
2.Pioneer 610 (6.5k)
3.Oppo 981 (19K)

 

[vemind]

So some of good combinations

1.Onkyo 606/706 + wharfedale Diamond 9 HCP
(36k/55k?) (35k)

2.Denon 1909 + Kef KHT 3005
(38K) (95K)

Spirovious; another quick question please....I notice that Yamaha DSP AX863SE is getting great reviews on the net. Is it worth considering? Does Yamaha have a dealer in Delhi?

Thanks again!

 

[venkatcr]

Spirovious; another quick question please....I notice that Yamaha DSP AX863SE is getting great reviews on the net. Is it worth considering? Does Yamaha have a dealer in Delhi?

The Yamaha 863 is certainly worth looking at. I have heard it's younger brother, the 663, a few times over the last few weeks. I must say I was impressed with the sound that the 663 delivered.

Yamaha should be easy to source across India. Check with their office in Gurgaon and they should be able to tell you who to contact.

Yamaha Music India (P) Ltd
5F Ambience Corporate Tower,
Ambience Mall Complex,
Ambience Island,
NH-8, Gurgaon 122001, Haryana, India
Tel: (91) 124-466-5551 Fax: (91) 124-466-5552

Cheers

 

[vemind]

The Yamaha 863 is certainly worth looking at. I have heard it;s younger brother, the 663, a few times over the last few weeks. I must say I was impressed with the sound that the 663 delivered.

Cheers

Venkatcr; thanks! Will talk to folks at Yamaha and revert!

Deeply appreciate this forum!

Cheers!

 

[Sujit]

1. To be really future proof, would it be better to plonk most money on AVR and upgrade speakers at a later time?

Vemind - if you are looking at a long lasting option then I would recommend putting MORE money on better speakers first. The amp tech will keep improving - and for a regular living room environment you may be hard pressed to discern the difference between say a 20k 5.1 amp and a 50 k 7.1 while watching a movie. Not enough to warrant the x2 cost - not to mention some 5.1s are outright better than the 7.1 in all areas relating to sound! You can think of upgrading to the 7.1 AVR in a couple of years - when the software becomes more widely available. If its going to spend a large portion of its time till then doing stereo or 5.1 duties, then you might as well spend it on a good 5.1 AVR and invest in better speakers - I would.

 

[spirovious]

Spirovious; Special thanks! Deeply appreciate all your inputs!

Can you advise, or point me to a thread on the site for demo/dealers for
-Wharfdate

-Denon

-KEF

Thanks.

Further, what is a good way to 'demo' these compbos? any pointers are welcome. While have a good 'listening year' is there anything specific to look out for?

In Delhi you will get-

Denon,Jamo at- Hi-Fi zone, chandani chauk, 23863304, 9811256782
Yamaha@ - Gemini traders,near Red fort,23866526, 9311155528
Wharfedale -BASS 'n' TREBLE (for Wharfedale, Quad, DAC, Vanguard)
F-6, First floor, Manish Link Road, Plaza-1,
Plot 9, Sector-5, Dwarka, New Delhi-110075.
Tel: 9999016124, (011) 45509308.

Kef - Profx 41414100 /09810339238
Tannoy -sunnyacoustics 41603949

 

[marsilians]

Hi Vemind,

Some things to keep in mind for your AVRs.

Onkyo's tend to run hot so be aware of that and you need sufficient space aorund it.

Between Yamaha and Denon, they are quite comprable. very stable and reliable products.

I had a Denon 2308 Ci and Yamaha RX-v659. Was happy with both. Denon was a "laid back" speaker in that the top end treble was lacking a bit RELATIVE TO Yamaha. Yamaha was more forward though I ahve seen some people call it bright. I did not feel that way.

The best thing I suggest is to pick one fo the receivers and go and audition a range of speakers to get a feel fro what you like since everyone listening styles are different. Then you can give you 3 - 4 choies and it becomes easier to provide advise on that.

 

[prakasse]

Hi,

Since you need future proof HT setup, i will recommend any of these AVR's. They can cater for your music/movies.

Onkyo 706, Yamaha 863, Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K. Reviews suggest that Pioneer AVR video upscaling features are very good compared to Yamaha. I feel you need good video upscaler for your DTH since your TV is more than
40" size.

Onkyo 706 has THX certification which means you can be assured of good sound output.

For 5.1 speakers you can try Q-acoustics 1010i since you need wall mounted speakers.

Else you can try
Wharfedale 9.1 fronts. 9.dfs rears, 9.cc center and SW 150 Sub.

These components will come within your budget.

Thanks,
Prakash.

 

[vemind]

Venkatcr; thanks! Will talk to folks at Yamaha and revert!

Deeply appreciate this forum!

Cheers!

Thanks Guys! Vrey valuable inputs from all of you!

I contacted Yamaha office in Gurgaon for contacts to their distributor, and they have sent me on a wild goose chase. They gave me details of their distributor 'Amrit', who incidentally did not answer his phones for over 36 hrs....hmmm! Finally, I visited him today and was told that Yamaha is officially not importing AV components presently, and so there would be no service available till end Jan. So I really do not know what is happening with Yamaha.

Anyone hear Dali Motif Speakers? I have not seen too many reviews on the net, but Sound+Vision Delhi conveys these are the BEST! I welcome your ideas....

 

[vemind]

In Delhi you will get-

Denon,Jamo at- Hi-Fi zone, chandani chauk, 23863304, 9811256782
Yamaha@ - Gemini traders,near Red fort,23866526, 9311155528

Kef - Profx 41414100 /09810339238
Tannoy -sunnyacoustics 41603949

Thanks Spirovious; appreciate the inputs.

today I went to the Onkyo shop to see the range available (C R Park, South Delhi). They do not seem to have any of the new Onkyo receivers. I could see a demo of the Onkyo 575 and Onkyo 705 only. Somehow, I am not impressed with these (perhaps it was the speakers....Elac cubes).

Tomorrow, I hope to visit Sound+Vision and check out Denon.

 

[venkatcr]

I contacted Yamaha office in Gurgaon for contacts to their distributor, and they have sent me on a wild goose chase. They gave me details of their distributor 'Amrit', who incidentally did not answer his phones for over 36 hrs....hmmm! Finally, I visited him today and was told that Yamaha is officially not importing AV components presently, and so there would be no service available till end Jan. So I really do not know what is happening with Yamaha.

This does look like a real wild goose chase. Yamaha AVRs are selling in large numbers all over India, and they have regular ads in magazines. In addition I have seen them represented very aggressively in all exhibitions.

Maybe the Yamaha Music and Amrit are more tuned for professional musical instruments.

In addition to Gemini Traders suggested by Spirovious, also see if you can call 022-2640 7318 for details on more dealers in Delhi.

Cheers

 

[vemind]

This does look like a real wild goose chase. Yamaha AVRs are selling in large numbers all over India, and they have regular ads in magazines. In addition I have seen them represented very aggressively in all exhibitions.

Maybe the Yamaha Music and Amrit are more tuned for professional musical instruments.

In addition to Gemini Traders suggested by Spirovious, also see if you can call 022-2640 7318 for details on more dealers in Delhi.

Cheers

So let me update you on my doings....

YAMAHA
Yesterday, I visited Gemini, as advsied earlier in this thread. The shop is a quaint little on, in a street (galli) sandwiched between Red Fort and Chandini Chawk, in the most unlikely corners of Delhi. I live in thsi city for over 25 years, and never know of this area even existing.....

The owner, Bharat, was of course very affable. He had prices of all the models, but none of the AVs for review except 363. So there goes a demo!

Having said, I am invreasinglythinking of putting max $ on speakers and take a basic AVR presently to conserve cash. And hence a 363 or a 463 will have to suffice. Your ideas on this are welcome....specially if you can advise of an alternative. incidentally, the 363 is available for 18K and the 463 for 24 K (Tax paid).

DALI
I am torn between the choice of:
Dali Motif 5.1 (approx 100K)
or
KEF KHT3005 (approx 95K)

I welcome your inputs on this please!

DVD Player:
I am zeroing in on the Sony PS3. I am told that it is the best thing around...blu-ray, with gaming thrown in... (approx 24K)

yes, I know, I am overshooting my budget...but, I think I will end up with a pretty solid setup....

And if you can give me some creative ideas on how to lower the overall cost...I deeply value that....

Cheers!

 

[marsilians]

vemind,

I would atleast try to the 463 given its auto room calibration techniques. Our houses material construction & setup lead to very poor dynamics for the AV systems. So the YPAO feature will go a long way in helping you get very close to good settings.

Put in simplistic terms this will do 90% of the audio settings job of Avia or Digitial Video Essentials setup all automatically.

The one job it does not do and easily fixable is subwoofer crossover settings. This is only a 30 sec job if your AVR allows it.


Secondly, you seem to have a bit of wrong priorities. A bad source with great speakers will lead to bad sound. A decent source with decent speakers will sound decent. Remember the speakers are not enhancing the quality at all. They only make it louder and dispersed. Its the AVR that has to do the job.

So invest a bit more on the AVR and trim down on your speaker, you will be much happier.

I used to own Yamaha equipment and they are very good for HT as well as music esp. if you listen to a lot of fast harmonics (hindi songs, classic rock, pop, etc.)

They very easily compare with Denon, Marantz, HK, Pioneer, etc. In one of my earlier posts, I have sent a link to cnet website comparing the various models (search the forums) yo uwill see what each AVR offers and I would get off the 363 bandwagon!

 

[vemind]

Marsilians; thanks for your inputs. Vallue it considerably!

I was planning more on speakers, simply because speakers generally stay around for 5 to 10 years, and are a long term investment. The AVR technology is changing often and rapidly, and I have been thinking of a 'starter AVR' and then upgrading next year, when I will have more $$ and hopefully the latest technology would be around.

What do you think?

Cheers!

 

[marsilians]

I have been thinking of a 'starter AVR' and then upgrading next year, when I will have more $$ and hopefully the latest technology would be around.

What do you think?

Cheers!

By buying a cheap one and selling within even 2 yrs and getting an upgrade will cause you to spend more in the long run. If you get a decent enough AVR you can hold onto it for 5 or 10 yrs. If you always think of getting the latest, you will get into an endless cycle of upgrade which is what this hobby makes you do easily.

463 would still be my choice

 

[vemind]

By buying a cheap one and selling within even 2 yrs and getting an upgrade will cause you to spend more in the long run. If you get a decent enough AVR you can hold onto it for 5 or 10 yrs. If you always think of getting the latest, you will get into an endless cycle of upgrade which is what this hobby makes you do easily.

463 would still be my choice

Marsilians; appreciate your inputs!

So here goes....would it be enough to start with:

Speakers: KEF KHT2005

AVR: Yamaha 463

DVD: Sony PS3

Thanks for your inputs!

 

[marsilians]

I have not personally owned Kef but they seem to be a decent brand. I heard though that some subwoofers in this package had problems. Check around for that and then make the purchase.

The AVR and PS3 (wow you are jumping the gun I see) are very good investments that should hold yo on for years and the PS3 supports 1080P full-hd + blue-ray + many new HD audio formats. Should serve you for long as a DVD + music source + game player

Also have 10% for cables and don't buy expensive kind. Any brand will do the job adequately. So no audio quest or monster or ... since they offer great quality but at criminal prices.


get an HDMI cable for video + RCA & optical or coax cables for audio

 

[venkatcr]

This is very strange. I had posted a detailed reply on speakers and they seem to have disappeared. I hope I have not posted in in some other link. Here goes again.

I am torn between the choice of: Dali Motif 5.1 (approx 100K) KEF KHT3005 (approx 95K)

I have heard neither the Dalis' nor the KEF. KEF has been around for a long time and has earned a good reputation.

Over the last few weeks, I have heard a few similar systems.

One was the Denon 1909 with Focal SIB 5.1. I came away very disappointed. I could not hear the dialogues properly, and in many scenes, I could not even hear sound which I knew were there. For example, in a scene from Gangaajal, Bachcha Yadav brings back the dead bodies of two killers on a tractor trailer. He is leading on a Bullet. I just could not hear the sound of the tractor, though the Bullet sound was there.

I even tried setting the front speakers as large, and that is really incorrect as these speakers are very small. But even that did not help.

Similarly I had issues with music where the drums were muffled and boomy.

Just a few days later, I hear the Canton sub/sat system with a Yamaha 663. Here things were much better. I could hear the tractor sound and music was clear. I think the combination of Amp and sub/sat speakers makes a huge difference.

I am afraid if you combine a sub/sat system with low powered speakers, you may not get good results.

For your kind of investment (100,000), why don't you look at wall mountable bookshelves such as the PSB Alpha B1s. Four of these would cost your 30,000, and they would perform admirably for both movies and music. You can add a matching center speaker. These speaker will give you life long service. Other companies such as Mordaunt Short also make similar bookshelves. Such speakers will work well with all amps.

For sub, I would advise you look at products from Velodyne, EPOS, tec. These would give you a large sound stage needed for movies.

Cheers