How do Speaker stands matter

[arj]

While I personally have found significant differences on where and how you place your speakers ie Metal/Wood/Spikes/Sliders/carpet and also rigid vs lossy or coupled vs Decoupled. This gets Highlighted far more with bookshelf speakers and stands

This video is a more Objective way to look at the effect. Of course you can argue if what was being measured matters at all and if the ear can differentiate between them. but again since there are auditory difference there must be something which is changing

I prefer watching this at 125% speed

 

[reignofchaos]

Huge differences as far as I'm concerned. Even the material of the stand matters. So far I've tried metal and wood. I greatly prefer the sound on wooden stands.

I sold my Usher speakers but didn't sell their RWS 729 stands as these are some of the best stands I've found till date. Paid a lot for them but was totally worth it. It is almost impossible to find similar stands under 100k now. These are made of solid wood and have a marble base. Beautifully finished and exceptionally functional. Each one weighs close to 30 kilos.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Theoretically, it should be possible to build a speaker that gives the flattest possible frequency response and minimum resonances. Would that result in the most accurate sound? The former attribute is perhaps a good measurement tool, but when it comes to resonances, what we like can be very subjective. That is why many of us find that footers and pucks kinda deaden the sound. See how the screwdriver tap on the Sound Anchor stand sounds like a thud? Is this what we want to hear? And if one wanted it to be more resonant, would that then be called 'coloured'?
So for now, we have no option but to let our ears be the best judge.
Cheers!

 

[sidvee]

Personally I am not a fan of stands matter theory, simply because - is that what the speaker manufacturer wants? How do they test their speakers and report the measurements? Then how do we modify the sound with rigid, lossy stands etc. and say it is better or worse. Don't you think the speaker manufacturer would want you to listen with the best stand possible - especially for bookshelf designs that cost $4000- $5000? Then how can these other commercial designs upto $1000 or more exist claiming improvement without the manufacturer sanction? How do they know what floors the stands are placed one - poured concrete vs suspended wood, vs whatever? Too subjective imo. I have 4-5 stands with me, from $200 to $1000, wood, metal etc, however I don't particularly hear anything definitive to propose any objective opinion.
I have been to many anechoic chambers where speakers are measured and they use basic metal welded stands or extruded aluminum, that cost probably $50 and they look like crap. Mainly used to raise the speaker off the ground so that floor reinforcement doesn't mess up the measurements. So if speakers are measured with such supports, how are our stands going to improve their sound?
Yes granted different stands will make the speaker sound different, but to what degree? and it is better or worse - again to what degree?
Personally getting the tweeter to listener height, treating the room, placing the speaker better will yield better results imo.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

Personally, I have found sound differences with all components in where they are placed. ideally a non ringing/resonant even surface , which is solid. with Merlin speakers a heavy stand placed with bluetack was what the manufacturer recommended and what worked best. While tweeter height and toe in angle were important so was the stand.

 

[Nikhil]

This is a topic of great interest for me right now. I have sketched a few stands in CAD and am planning to build a few to test. In my experience stand design matters in an audible manner once you have defined the speaker system and room. Primarily of course, stands serve the basic purpose of positioning the speakers in a room that helps create the sound stage by setting the distance from front wall, positioning of the drivers (to ear height) etc.

Of special interest for me at the moment, is what effect does the stand design have on the sound. Frame style stands are recommended for the BBC thin wall speakers. My Green Mountain Audio Eos HX were designed with Skyllan stands so that is what I had with them. They are a two column mass loaded design filled with sand to provide some amount of damping on the columns. They sound great with my ATC SCM20 which I am using right now. The question I have now are what would a four column stand do? Have been looking long and hard at some of the Sound Anchors which are supposed to be the last word especially in studios.

I sold my Usher speakers but didn't sell their RWS 729 stands as these are some of the best stands I've found till date. Paid a lot for them but was totally worth it. It is almost impossible to find similar stands under 100k now. These are made of solid wood and have a marble base. Beautifully finished and exceptionally functional. Each one weighs close to 30 kilos.

Those are superb stands. You did well to keep them.


.

 

[sidvee]

Personally, I have found sound differences with all components in where they are placed. ideally a non ringing/resonant even surface , which is solid. with Merlin speakers a heavy stand placed with bluetack was what the manufacturer recommended and what worked best. While tweeter height and toe in angle were important so was the stand.

Did the material matter with Merlin speakers? Design open frame, solid column? What about spikes etc. what is heavy 20kg, 50kg etc? Again as I said too subjective, that is what every manufacturer recommends, nothing objective or definitive. Very difficult to say this or that sounds better, will vary.
Anyways just my simple experience over the years, not really an expert - will defer to the more experienced on this.
Cheers,

 

[arj]

Did the material matter with Merlin speakers? Design open frame, solid column? What about spikes etc. what is heavy 20kg, 50kg etc? Again as I said too subjective, that is what every manufacturer recommends, nothing objective or definitive. Very difficult to say this or that sounds better, will vary.
Anyways just my simple experience over the years, not really an expert - will defer to the more experienced on this.
Cheers,

Hi Sid, as a function of the speaker, it needed a Solid Column and ideally damped and the speaker coupled to the stand : this gave a more stable imaging. single or multi column does not really matter as its a structural function of how heavy the speaker is. did not experiment too much with material but ideally Stainless steel is the most neutral ( with option of sand filling to add weight/damping depending on the speaker)

Since the Spike is less about the speaker and more about the floor, I used spikes with wooden discs since I had vitrified tiles..this gave a better midrange just the spike in the tile had a glare in the midrange.

But again these are personal observations and am sure there are far better/optimal ways !

I most cases the Stand is more of a Structural element like the floor/Spike than a tuning component but there are exceptions that some speakers like the JM Reynaud used to have Helmholtz resonator based stands which are speaker extensions to enhance the bass. but then that should be considered as a floorstander

Of special interest for me at the moment, is what effect does the stand design have on the sound. Frame style stands are recommended for the BBC thin wall speakers. My Green Mountain Audio Eos HX were designed with Skyllan stands so that is what I had with them. They are a two column mass loaded design filled with sand to provide some amount of damping on the columns. They sound great with my ATC SCM20 which I am using right now. The question I have now are what would a four column stand do? Have been looking long and hard at some of the Sound Anchors which are supposed to be the last word especially in studios.
.

Hi Nikhil,

from what I know about ATCs you are good with these. ATCs needs solid, rigid stands and you are good. 4 columns are for much heavier speakers hence a studio version of the ATC Active 50 etc which are stand mount will do better for stability with them.

Sound Anchors have some treatment they do to SS but again you are very good with Skylan/Sand as well IMHO

 

[sidvee]

I most cases the Stand is more of a Structural element like the floor/Spike than a tuning component

And I second that. That is how I approached it after many years of owning bookshelf speakers and various stands. I still own 3 pairs of bookshelf speakers, and about 4-5 pairs of steel/ wood/single pillar/four column - stands and numerous spikes, pucks, supports etc etc.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[jigarpatel]

One of the benefits of stand is it allows you to experiment with speaker placement in your room.
Sometime those placement might not be very practical, but placement might sound best in your room.

 

[availlyrics]

Whatever stands one plans to buy, just make sure its not hollow or at least fill it up with river sand, if possible. The resonance of the stand itself will make the speaker sound worst, similar to ringing sound we hear, after hitting a metal pipe . For tight budget , cement blocks can also be considered.
Ironically book shelf speakers are supposed to be space savers, but with stands, they end up occupying same real estate as proper floor standers do.

 

[arj]

Whatever stands one plans to buy, just make sure its not hollow or at least fill it up with river sand, if possible. The resonance of the stand itself will make the speaker sound worst, similar to ringing sound we hear, after hitting a metal pipe . For tight budget , cement blocks can also be considered.
Ironically book shelf speakers are supposed to be space savers, but with stands, they end up occupying same real estate as proper floor standers do.

exactly ! unless you place it on a platform/shelf which is suboptimal placement space is the wrong reason to buy a standmount.

 

[reignofchaos]

Whatever stands one plans to buy, just make sure its not hollow or at least fill it up with river sand, if possible. The resonance of the stand itself will make the speaker sound worst, similar to ringing sound we hear, after hitting a metal pipe . For tight budget , cement blocks can also be considered.
Ironically book shelf speakers are supposed to be space savers, but with stands, they end up occupying same real estate as proper floor standers do.

I use fresh cat litter for hollow stands. Sand almost always becomes wet and internals start rusting if you stay in a slightly humid area.

The other good though expensive option is either lead shot or iron ball bearings.

 

[arj]

I use fresh cat litter for hollow stands. Sand almost always becomes wet and internals start rusting if you stay in a slightly humid area.

The other good though expensive option is either lead shot or iron ball bearings.

excellent tweak..and the word "fresh" is important i presume

 

[availlyrics]

The other good though expensive option is either lead shot or iron ball bearings.

How about Osmium?
BTW beach sand is corrosive coz it contains salts and tends get wet under high humidity , that's why river sand is preferred in construction work. Its dirt cheap and many times, when its stored in open I have often seen its defecated all over by cats, dogs , cows, etc so this ready pre-mix represents best of both worlds!

 

[neelay2709]

Made speaker stands from left-over MDF boards from carpentry work going on at home. Used dry white sand from a construction site material supplier to fill the hollow. Also placed a 8-10kg bumbell at the base in the hollow for stabilisation. My only expense was the sand and painting. Pieces are very heavy and looks good. No complaints in the sound dept. Infact sounds better than before.

 

[Hari Iyer]

My current OB Speakers are having the main OB standing on my H-frame woofer box. Popular wisdom will be too damp the vibration by adding weight to allow minimalvvibration to midrange and tweeter. On the contrary I went for an extreme low compliance solution. I bought myself a 12mm hexnut with a height of just 5mm. Three of them sits below the H-frame and similar 3 of them on the main OB frame. The result is a very low compliance without any damping. Surprisingly the vibration of this setup is minimal and not damped.

 

[Shinto]

 

[Shinto]

Writing my experience with stands recently.
I was using DIY open frame oak stands(Tontrager Imitation by me with the help of a youtube video(with encouragement from dear forum member @Orko ,he was very helpful in answering my questions.he use the same combination of speakers,stands and amplification)) for my Harbeth 30.1 /Croft combo.The sound was natural with no forced details yet very detailed and Dynamic with a beautiful midrange.
The open frame stand being very light was replaced recently with a heavy steel stand to protect the speakers from my kids
The steel stand was so heavy even without any filling .I tried the stands as it is (without filling even though there was long decay ringing).The sound was not to my liking in the exact speaker position as before .The bass became solid, but the system lost all the magic.Lost the natural dynamics if it makes sense.I tried different combination of spike vs solation etc under speakers , stand etc.. At some point it was the sounding out of phase /smeared to an extent that I even checked the wiring/connections.I filled the stands with sand, the ringing is gone but the sound is still not to my liking.I might go back to the wooden open frame stands.

Some background,
The above experience is in our new home/room.
In my previous home /room,(the amplification was also different at that time), the story was different. I never used the wooden frame stand even though I made it .I didn't like the sound at that time.It was too mid centric with not enough bass.So I was using glass stands with sand filling which gave me the sound I wanted.

And now I am preferring the open stands,Go figure, I have no idea, why is this so.Did my preference change? or Does this mean that stands are very important and would depend on setup room etc ...
Any one has similar experience , please share your thoughts.