How does RD Burman songs produced by Saregama sound crap while Universal sounds insanely "clear"

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dilliaudiophile

dilliaudiophile

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I mention RD in the title but this seems to be true for other artists. All Saregama produced songs sound noisy crap. I suddenly started playing Mehbooba Mehbooba (Universal) a couple of minutes ago and it sounds pretty much like it was recorded yesterday. Same with Jahan teri ye nazar hai, also Universal. Sagar, Satte pe Satta, more stunning records to listen to.

And then next song I move to Chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko and again its noisy, vocals sound like it went through sandpaper, instruments sound awful. How did RD sign off on this? How was music production so wildly different based on labels? Something doesn't add up.

To be clear I'm not talking about dynamic range, I'm just talking about pure clarity. I can deal with bad dynamic range but noisy audio really grates my gears. I so wish we had records from the 50s-70s that could replicate what the west has done with every major artist's records (and they keep improving with remasters [this is strictly my opinion, i know people don't like remasters in most cases, I do, especially the Beatles ones]).
 
That is so true. I think wherever there was involvement of foreign companies such as Universal, Polydor, etc., those were really good compared to our own HMV. I know HMV did have some foreign connections, but it was pretty much managed by Kolkata.

Even today, I do not know what our guys in India do, hardly there are albums that are recorded and mastered well except some that came on Magnasound. A few that I find to be of international level are Tum Aaye of Javed Akhtar and Kassh by Hariharan.
 
Cannot say for a particular song/record, but in general I find the HMV/Saregama/RPG albums more full-sounding. The Universal albums for Hindi old Hindi films feel like the bass has been cut off. Now, that can give an illusion that the recording/remastering is cleaner.

The best CDs of old Hindi film soundtracks are the ones by HMV UK, most of which have combos of two or three films. They are full sounding as well as clear. But they are rarer to find and costlier too.
 
dilliaudiophile said:
I mention RD in the title but this seems to be true for other artists. All Saregama produced songs sound noisy crap. I suddenly started playing Mehbooba Mehbooba (Universal) a couple of minutes ago and it sounds pretty much like it was recorded yesterday. Same with Jahan teri ye nazar hai, also Universal. Sagar, Satte pe Satta, more stunning records to listen to.

And then next song I move to Chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko and again its noisy, vocals sound like it went through sandpaper, instruments sound awful. How did RD sign off on this? How was music production so wildly different based on labels? Something doesn't add up.

To be clear I'm not talking about dynamic range, I'm just talking about pure clarity. I can deal with bad dynamic range but noisy audio really grates my gears. I so wish we had records from the 50s-70s that could replicate what the west has done with every major artist's records (and they keep improving with remasters [this is strictly my opinion, i know people don't like remasters in most cases, I do, especially the Beatles ones]).
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There are a few observations in your message.

The best source for Chura liya hai tumne is LP record of Yadon ki barat, which is unfortunately a ERS ( fake hollow sounding stereo ).

Whereas Mehbooba from Sholay was first mass produced stereo LP record, which was recorded on 6 track stereo.

So comparing both of them is like comparing apples to oranges.

But yes, HMV / Saregama did have many dull sounding recording specially from late 60s till advent of stereo in mass production, circa 1978s-79s.

Music released on Polydor are usually better sounding but there's hit and miss too.

Saregama has a music catalog that I think covers 70% music of Indian OST atleast before 90s. So there's bound to be many misses in SQ.

Yes, have to admit they don't look very keen on SQ and quality of their collection. But they lost the masters long ago so.....
 
frend2001 said:
There are a few observations in your message.

The best source for Chura liya hai tumne is LP record of Yadon ki barat, which is unfortunately a ERS ( fake hollow sounding stereo ).

Whereas Mehbooba from Sholay was first mass produced stereo LP record, which was recorded on 6 track stereo.

So comparing both of them is like comparing apples to oranges.

But yes, HMV / Saregama did have many dull sounding recording specially from late 60s till advent of stereo in mass production, circa 1978s-79s.

Music released on Polydor are usually better sounding but there's hit and miss too.

Saregama has a music catalog that I think covers 70% music of Indian OST atleast before 90s. So there's bound to be many misses in SQ.

Yes, have to admit they don't look very keen on SQ and quality of their collection. But they lost the masters long ago so.....
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How did they lose the masters??!! Nuts that the most popular songs just cannot ever be remastered. I really hope AI succeeds in this one thing, restoring audio recordings to pristine quality.

But tell me this, how does this problem last till the 90s? I mean, Gupt is a stunning record from the 90s, but then you hear an album like Kaho na Pyaar hai or Mann, they sound trash
 
sachinchavan 15865 said:
Cannot say for a particular song/record, but in general I find the HMV/Saregama/RPG albums more full-sounding. The Universal albums for Hindi old Hindi films feel like the bass has been cut off. Now, that can give an illusion that the recording/remastering is cleaner.

The best CDs of old Hindi film soundtracks are the ones by HMV UK, most of which have combos of two or three films. They are full sounding as well as clear. But they are rarer to find and costlier too.
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I don't think it's just bass cut, I'm talking about literal noise in the records, everything sounds scratchy and old. There are records from that exact same year that sound wildly sophisticated.
 
bornfi said:
That is so true. I think wherever there was involvement of foreign companies such as Universal, Polydor, etc., those were really good compared to our own HMV. I know HMV did have some foreign connections, but it was pretty much managed by Kolkata.

Even today, I do not know what our guys in India do, hardly there are albums that are recorded and mastered well except some that came on Magnasound. A few that I find to be of international level are Tum Aaye of Javed Akhtar and Kassh by Hariharan.
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These days I find the problem is literally no sound producers actually wants to play with the sound. All instruments and effects and vocals sound the exact same way, the kind of sounds that gets a lot of airtime at discos and other loudspeaker setups.
 
Saregama SQ has always been bad . It not just RDB

Polydor / Universal Music in 80's made it very apparent . Even T-Series CD's released in 80's like - Hatya , Ilzaam , Tridev, Chaalbaaz etc is way better than Saregama CD's released during the same period . We are fortunate to have T-Series , Tips , Time Audio and Venus dominating the scene in 90's and then later on Sony Music , otherwise those recordings would have been equally bad . For some reason Saregama simply decided not to improve .

Compare Vishwatama (HMV) with Tridev (T-series) and Gupt (Tips) and Mohra (Venus) - All Viju Shah

I dont agree with the fuller sound argument . Take Dil Chahta Hai or for that matter any Shankar Ehsaan Loy release on T-Series or Sony Music , they all have that Bass and sound great .
 
Can we make a thread on the best recorded Bollywood albums from the 60s to say the late 70s?

From the 80s the difference in qualities seem a little more tolerable so I'm not going to push that.
 
COOLDUDE7808 said:
I dont agree with the fuller sound argument . Take Dil Chahta Hai or for that matter any Shankar Ehsaan Loy release on T-Series or Sony Music , they all have that Bass and sound great .
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The fuller sound argument was for HMV’s recordings from the 70s vs Universal’s from same era. Sony Music from 00’s is in different league.

If one has to cast the net wider, I personally find the Venus and Magnasound recordings from 90’s quite good.
 
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Nice thread. At the same time we cannot negate good recordings from EMI/ HMV. If the assumption is built on digital repository or audio CDs, then Polydor/ Music India/ Universal will stand taller. However from vinyl, there are multiple examples of excellent recordings from EMI/HMV -

Hum Kisise Kum Nahin, Disco Dancer, Suraag, Namak Halal, Dil Padosi Hain, Barrister, Sansani, Nishan, Karz, Swami Dada, Sitamgar, Chor Police and many more. Bengali Puja songs by R.D.Burman are a different league in terms of vinyl sound quality.

Many Angel and Odeon pressing LPs are heavenly.

EMI HMV did not adequately focus while making CDs from master repository.

To me Sholay 1st pressing LP recording is very bright. 3rd pressing on generic cover is much balanced. I will write more during the weekend.
 
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