HTiB vs ala carte

[srag4568]

Hi all, I have been following this forum and really awed by the amount of knowledge. I recently got a SONY 40" LED and would like to add a suitable Home Theater for good experience. I have got Airtel DTH connection.

I had earlier visited SONY showroom but not very impressed with their product. Then I went to ONKYO showroom and was really impressed. I started off from the cheapest they had Rs 25K HT-S3400, HT-S5400 at 52K. The Onkyo guy showed me a few other pieces and has left me in good confusion. The other pieces were : (a) Onkyo TXNR509 with 5.1 Energy speakers (front speakers tower) - price Rs 34K + Rs90K; (b) Onkyo TXNR579 with MK 5.1 series speakers at Rs45k + Rs 96K. I was really impressed with the MK series speakers - but my confusion is the following :
a) Given the sound impact, I am worried how it would affect neighbours as I stay in an apartment. Having bought a good system, and not able to use it would be utter waste
b) Should I then go for the cheapest at 25K and make do with something rather than nothing - of course, for this I am ok to tune down the sub-w.
c) My hall size is 20x12 but has 5 doors (that can be closed) and one window (also can be closed). I have already got false ceiling (gypsum board). Once shut in, the noise can be trapped to some extent. But the bass and treble effect is distinct on the floor and the walls, which can be felt by other flat owners.

I really would appreciate if someone can guide me. While I do have budget for MK, I am not too keen to spend that much if HTS3400 can take care.

Kindly advise.
Raghavan

 

[jaudere]

hi,
If it is the question of rattling the neighbours, even 3400 will do that.
My 20w RMS stereo amp goes unbearably loud at 75% capacity and i can easily hear it from my parking (1 floor below my home)

So it is a question of how loud you like the sound.
Get a good system that you like,may be with active sub (which 3400 does not have). Saying so especially because you have the budget.
About the low frequency sounds, proper placement of the sub can help you to some extent.

It is better to get avr with higher wattage especially for movies. Many DVDs have low amplitude sound and you need to crank up the volume knob to get adequate volume.
Music cds have pretty good volume and even a 40 or 50watt rms /ch is more than enough for routine home use.

Buy the best sounding speaker set in your budget. This is likely to be your long term investment. Costly speaker does not simply mean louder speaker. Better speaker gives better sound quality at equal volume.

Hope this helps.

 

[coolraghav]

do check out denon1312 htib, they just launched this week or last week. I'm not sure about the model but it does include denon1312 reciever and I auditioned it with Jodha Akbar bluray and was completely stunned with the sound quality. I think its for around 30-35K. its beats onkyo htib 3400

IMHO, dont go to hts5400..its not worth it.

 

[Santy]

Playing loud is possible in all cheapo HTIBs which annoys the neighbours. A better setup helps you to enjoy at moderate volumes too. You may also need AVR with Dynamic range control/ Audessey feature which will ensure there are no sudden peaks in sound.

Which is the model of Energy speakers you have seen? I would recommend them, they are great quality ones. But looking at the price it is too expensive. Is the price only for Floor Standers?

In any case, go for components, that will give a satisfaction which otherwise is too short lived in case of HTiBs.

 

[srag4568]

hi,
If it is the question of rattling the neighbours, even 3400 will do that.
My 20w RMS stereo amp goes unbearably loud at 75% capacity and i can easily hear it from my parking (1 floor below my home)

So it is a question of how loud you like the sound.
Get a good system that you like,may be with active sub (which 3400 does not have). Saying so especially because you have the budget.
About the low frequency sounds, proper placement of the sub can help you to some extent.

It is better to get avr with higher wattage especially for movies. Many DVDs have low amplitude sound and you need to crank up the volume knob to get adequate volume.
Music cds have pretty good volume and even a 40 or 50watt rms /ch is more than enough for routine home use.

Buy the best sounding speaker set in your budget. This is likely to be your long term investment. Costly speaker does not simply mean louder speaker. Better speaker gives better sound quality at equal volume.

Hope this helps.

Hi Jaudere - thanks for your useful comments. Yes I do agree to your point on the costly speaker do not simply mean loudness. Even a mini Hi FI can rattle. But my choice is not so much for the volume but for the detail / clarity - and reasonable resonance especially when we watch movies like Air Force One, etc.... Perhaps need to reach an understanding with my neighbours.. Will check out details on AVR wattage and the active sub.

 

[srag4568]

Thanks, will check out the Denon and update. Yes, I was also not too impressed with the HTS5400, I felt HTS 3400 was better.

 

[HTuser]

Ala carte will be better than HTIB

Select Denon 1612 if you want Audyssey and pair with matching speakers like KEF, Paradigm, Tannoy, Monitor Audio etc. If your usage is more for movies Polk RTi also can be considered.

For subwoofer, Kllipsch, Velodyne, SVS, Polk DSW etc can be considered.

Don't hurry, if you are short of money, build the setup step step.
Like AVR with two speakers, then subwoofer, then center then surround etc.

 

[srag4568]

@Jaudere - thanks for your kind comments. Yes I would prefer quality of sound to jarring notes. Hence, take your point on the best quality speakers.

@coolraghav - Denon seems to be a good option. Maybe will take a dekko n 1911 / 1912

@Santy - yes, not particularly keen on HTiBs, but only as a compromise. Any idea of quality of Onkyo Tx NR 579? Sorry, did not take note of the Energy series. But it was 5.1 - 2 floorstanding and 3 wall mount / BS.


@HT user - thanks, yes, will not hurry. Will post more updates post research and after going to showrooms sometime from now. During my last visit to Malaysia, I had nearly zeroed in on Onkyo 509 with Jamo speakers / Mirage around INR 100K all in. But then will have to pay duty on 75K @ 33% + not sure how to go about the installation in Chennai...

Since I have just now embarked on this search, not sure where to locate good Dealers /showrooms for AVR / Speakers in Chennai - can some one please help?

 

[Calvin]

^^^ Decibel, Grand Cinema, Cressida AV Zone & Pro FX.

 

[rav11stars]

Hi,

As we're already on the topic I'd like to hear from you guys on something. I have a Philips DSP 2200 HT, a very basic HT, I'd say.I liked my creative 2.1 more as it delivered better bass.
I intended to buy an Onkyo HT-S3400 but then I also auditioned an Onkyo setup with a powered subwoofer. I wanted that and so thought of digging up a bit before buying.
I'm considering building up my HT bit by bit than going for a HTiB. Now with a speaker set-up that I have please suggest an A/V receiver upon which I can upgrade in future to a better speaker set-up.The Philips 5.1 accepts only 6 RCA analog inputs.I have a LG TV that outputs digital audio output.

thanks,
Ravi

 

[jaudere]

Please provide details of the philips satellites especially impedance (ohms),power handling capacity in RMS.
If that is good, the same speakers can be used with an AVR.
The philips sub with built in amp can be used as powered sub temporarily.
I mean the satellites may be connected to speaker terminals on AVR While the LFE Out(line level) from AVR Can be fed into the 'sub in' of your philips system. This will work temporarily till you buy better satellites and a good subwoof.

 

[paritosh]

I may suggest a couple of options, the choice of them depend on your liking of sound signature.

One is Onkyo SKS HT 728, a 5.1 speakers pkg with powered 10 inch sub, paired with your choice of AVR, choose one with airplay capability and network worthy.

For more detailed sound, also check Elac 50 series speakers.

Another option is Paradigm CT series speakers.

Wharfedale obsidion pkg is also worth an auditing.

If budget id not a constraints, go for Paradigm Monitor series based pkg. That should deliver you great vocal details as well as the towers are worthy of stereo use which should satisfy your dual requirements of music plus movie. But, be careful while chowing an AVR to pair them with. Some people may find Paradigm a little forward sounding too.

That's my two bit....

Audition as many setups as possible. Try to make out the kind of sound signature you prefer (I.e. more bass / a sharper tweeter / more pronounced mid range or vocals / a more or less neutral sound etc.). After settling for a sound signature,ask the forum members which all setups you liked and what you liked about them and what quality would you prefer your set up to have, so they can suggest options in the same direction.

Enjoy your journey.... its a beautiful experience.

Cheers
Paritosh

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

 

[srag4568]

Hi all

Firstly belated Happy Diwali to all.

My search is temporarily on a slow move, as I am required to travel to MY/SG and will be back after Nov 15. However, this should also give me an opportunity to audition some systems in Malaysia. I shall keep the forum posted with my experience and seek the guidance.

Best wishes

 

[rav11stars]

Please provide details of the philips satellites especially impedance (ohms),power handling capacity in RMS.
If that is good, the same speakers can be used with an AVR.
The philips sub with built in amp can be used as powered sub temporarily.
I mean the satellites may be connected to speaker terminals on AVR While the LFE Out(line level) from AVR Can be fed into the 'sub in' of your philips system. This will work temporarily till you buy better satellites and a good subwoof.

Thanks Jaudere. Here are the specifications.

4 Satellites: Impedance->4 Ohms
Speaker Drivers->76mm full range
Frequency response->90Hz-18KHz
Centre Speaker:Impedance->8 Ohms
Subwoofer:Impedance->4 Ohms
100mm driver
65Hz-5KHz freq response

The amp has a specified power output of 11W RMS for subwoofer and 4W+3WX4 RMS for satellites

thanks,
Ravi

 

[jaudere]

Thanks Jaudere. Here are the specifications.

4 Satellites: Impedance->4 Ohms
Speaker Drivers->76mm full range
Frequency response->90Hz-18KHz
Centre Speaker:Impedance->8 Ohms
Subwoofer:Impedance->4 Ohms
100mm driver
65Hz-5KHz freq response

The amp has a specified power output of 11W RMS for subwoofer and 4W+3WX4 RMS for satellites

thanks,
Ravi

Well,you can use your system with an AVR But here are few words of caution.
1) most of the AVRs officially do not recommend speakers below 6 ohm. However I have regularly used 4 ohm speakers with my yamaha avr without any problems. The expected problem is that the Avr runs hot if the volume is kept high and ultimately may go into protection mode(automatically switched off) till it cools down sufficiently. My avr never went into protection mode. Just take care that you dont go to high on volume.

2)In speaker selection in the avr,choose fronts as 'small'. This is for speaker protection by not allowing bass frequencies fed into satellites.

3) your speakers can handle very low power. 4w RMS. You have to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS about volume control. Most of the AVRs provide 35w RMS into each channel and above. It does not mean that they will feed minimum 35w. You can feed just a watt or 2 by controlling volume knob. However the small speakers can be easily blown off by any decent amp if volume is sufficiently high.

You need not worry about the sub much because it is powered sub and has its own amp but I feel that is is too underpowered to be of real use.
So you can use your present speakers with an AVR But be extremely cautious.
By the way,are you happy with the sound of these philips speakers? I mean good sub should at least come down to 30hz if not 20hz. The sub you have goes down just to 65hz. There are some book shelves which come down to 40hz and will give a much fuller sound than using this sub.
Secondly , this philips system that you have may be adequate for music in a small room or near field use like PC Desktop speakers but is very much underpowered if it is to be used for movies.

 

[rav11stars]

Well,you can use your system with an AVR But here are few words of caution.
1) most of the AVRs officially do not recommend speakers below 6 ohm. However I have regularly used 4 ohm speakers with my yamaha avr without any problems. The expected problem is that the Avr runs hot if the volume is kept high and ultimately may go into protection mode(automatically switched off) till it cools down sufficiently. My avr never went into protection mode. Just take care that you dont go to high on volume.

2)In speaker selection in the avr,choose fronts as 'small'. This is for speaker protection by not allowing bass frequencies fed into satellites.

3) your speakers can handle very low power. 4w RMS. You have to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS about volume control. Most of the AVRs provide 35w RMS into each channel and above. It does not mean that they will feed minimum 35w. You can feed just a watt or 2 by controlling volume knob. However the small speakers can be easily blown off by any decent amp if volume is sufficiently high.

You need not worry about the sub much because it is powered sub and has its own amp but I feel that is is too underpowered to be of real use.
So you can use your present speakers with an AVR But be extremely cautious.
By the way,are you happy with the sound of these philips speakers? I mean good sub should at least come down to 30hz if not 20hz. The sub you have goes down just to 65hz. There are some book shelves which come down to 40hz and will give a much fuller sound than using this sub.
Secondly , this philips system that you have may be adequate for music in a small room or near field use like PC Desktop speakers but is very much underpowered if it is to be used for movies.

You're right mate...I'm not much satisfied with this. I bought this one in a hurry on a suggestion and didnt think much. For now I connected it to my TV headphone jack; so atleast it's working as a 2.1
I was on the verge of buying an Onkyo HT-S3400, but then I also saw an Onkyo setup with a powered SW and then got into a dilemma. I wanted the one with the powered one now hyeah:
So i'm caught between whether to build up my HT gradually or buy a HTiB

 

[jaudere]

I would suggest you to build it step by step. Buy decent AVR And the sub first. Use your satellites for the time being. Later go for front speakers then the centre and lastly the surrounds.

You can go for an HTIB Also. If I am not wrong there are some HTIBs(i think denon,hk-jbl) in market which come with powered sub. So you may get that to start with and then buy a better powered sub later( a good powered sub itself will cost 20k and above).

Even the Onkyo 3400will be a good choice PROVIDED it has a LFE Out for future connection to an active sub. I fear it does not have that. However please check it yourself as I am not very sure about it.

 

[rav11stars]

I would suggest you to build it step by step. Buy decent AVR And the sub first. Use your satellites for the time being. Later go for front speakers then the centre and lastly the surrounds.

You can go for an HTIB Also. If I am not wrong there are some HTIBs(i think denon,hk-jbl) in market which come with powered sub. So you may get that to start with and then buy a better powered sub later( a good powered sub itself will cost 20k and above).

Even the Onkyo 3400will be a good choice PROVIDED it has a LFE Out for future connection to an active sub. I fear it does not have that. However please check it yourself as I am not very sure about it.

You're right..Onkyo 3400 does not come with a powered subwoofer.

 

[srag4568]

HI all - I have been able to visit some shops in Chennai and in Malaysia since my last post and here's what I have found out :
1. Chennai Onkyo Showroom : checked out HTS 3400 with MKII speakers and also with Energy Tower (Floor standing speakers) - this was my first experience and really did not have much of a clue about any of the systems, it was just plain experience. But the speakers still stand out in my memory. So have to visit this shop once I am back to Chennai again to find out exact details. prices quoted : HTS3400 package (5.1) Rs 25000/-; HTS 5400 (7.1) Rs 54000/-; Onkyo TXNR509 34k + Energy Tower speakers with sub w (5.1) 90k; NR 579 amp Rs45K + MKII 5.1 + s/w 96K.
2. Chennai Profx - with slightly better knowledge and thanks to guidance in this forum, atleast could identify the components for its worth. Checked out Denon 1312 with Polk audio RM 705 series - did not like the speakers at all, or was it the amp? However, could spend only about 45 minutes. Have to revisit to investigate further. Prices quoted : for the above 1312 + RM 705 = around Rs 45k
3. Malaysia : visited three shops in a place called Sungei Wang Plaza (Bukit Bintang) & Low Yat. Prior to going here, did some studies/research and here were the recommendations from some sources in the net : (cnet.com, about.com)
A)Best 5 Home Audio products : (a) Denon AVR 1912 best midrange AVR USD 550 (b) Energy Take Classic 5.1 Best budget speaker USD 400 or Pioneer SP-PK21BS; (c) Aperion Intemus 4T Hybrid SD (medium cherry) - Best midsize speakers for the money) USD 1570 (alternatively KEF KHT 3005 / KHT 5005.2, Mirage Nanosat 5.1 HTS) (d) SONY HTCT150 Best sound bar HT system USD 300; (e) Logitech Squeezebox radio ..
B) Best 5 speakers : (1) Energy Take Classic 5.1; (2) Aperion Intemus 4T Hybrid SG (3) KEF KHT 3005 BL(SE) glossy black US D2k; (4) Aperion Intemus 5B Harmony SD USD 1749 (5) Energy RC Micro 5.1 at USD 600. Others also mentioned were (6) Mirage Mx5.1 (7) KEF KHT 5005.2 (8) Definitive Technology Procinema 800 - satellite subwoofer package USD 1200; or same as 8 but 600 series at USD 800.
C) Best AVRs : (1) DENON AVR 1912 - best sounding AVR <USD550 (Cnet Editor's choice in midrange AVR); (2) Pioneer Vsx 1021K - best overall value; (3) Yamaha Rx v671 Best overall midrange receiver - but lacks airplay (4) Onkyo NR609 (lacks airplay). Apart from this - Best looking AVR : Marantz nr 1601 or Harman Kardon AVR 2600.
Apart from this I also studied on what home theater is - what each component does and what are critical things to look out for. For those interested - please go to about.com and go into the receivers section in progressive drill down... I also had the luck to hit upon a table of comparison of the features.

Best AV receivers - CNET Reviews

We can find the link in the first couple of paragraphs of this article for the spreadsheet comparison chart.

Armed with new knowledge I now sauntered into the first shop (CMY Audio & Visual)- a big let down, the demo room was the shop and vice versa and there was heavy outside noise. However, tested the Denon 1912 and seemed to like it. Price 2590 Ringgits = INR 39k (Profx quoted INR 46k negotiable). The speakers however not to my liking - ProAC (audio pro 5.1) Onkyo NR609 he quoted at RM 2750 = INR 41.3k. With not much options and slightly noisy surrounding, I felt let down on my experience and moved to next shop (A&L Audio station) and was pleasantly surprised. He had just one demo room, but was secluded and set the atmosphere. He did not have Denon, but dealt only with Pioneer, Marantz, Yamaha and NAD. The first demo was with Pioneer VSX 1020 with Elac Starlet CM speakers (subwoofer Velodyne Impact 12). IT was excellent and caught my imagination. The Elac speakers - imported from Germany was sleek and small, but the effect was terrific. Did not want the Elac sub w as it was very costly (> INR 70000). We then tested the Yamaha v671 and then NAD. But Pioneer it was... Yamaha was too warm and Marantz out for the same reasons. Price Elac 5.1 @ Rs 51K + Pioneer (he did not have the 1021 which is a new model, but gave a good price for 1020) at Rs34.5 + Velodyne Rs 27.8 = total package Rs 113.3. So long I had been pinning on Denon 1912 with only one nigglng thought that it did not provide for upscaling, which Pioneer provides. Also added features in Pioneer (like ipod, usb, wireless etc) were making it more attractive. Next shop (Desa Home Theater) Onkyo NR609 with Mirage OMD15 Floor standing speakers (2 nos) + 2 surround sat systems + Jamo sub-w 300 (Rs39k + Rs 223k!) or with Mirage Omni S-10 Sat speakers 5.1 with Jamo sub-w 300 Rs39k + Rs148k)
or KEF KHT 1005.2 with 8" sub-w package deal = Rs60000/- with Onkyo NR609 Rs 39k. He did not have the Denon 1912 but was offering denon 1911 for Rs30000/-.

So that was how my day was spent and I have one more day tomorrow to look for. I am tending to get a bit confused between Denon and Pioneer and Onkyo and after going through the net comparisons etc, feel like shying away from Onkyo. The A&L Audio Station also cautioned against any Denon series below 3, would not be as good, and recommeded Pioneer (another matter that he did not sell Denon). Kindly share your thoughts and comments.

One more thought I am having is : for a price differential of Rs 5000, should I forsake warranty..? especially AVR being so sensitive and costly. In that case having observed all teh demo and choice of products, I can straight away go to India nad bargain for good price on selected models. ALternatively, I shall be coming again to Malaysia in Jan / Feb and can still buy, if nothing works out in India by then. Please suggest.

 

[srag4568]

I may suggest a couple of options, the choice of them depend on your liking of sound signature.

One is Onkyo SKS HT 728, a 5.1 speakers pkg with powered 10 inch sub, paired with your choice of AVR, choose one with airplay capability and network worthy.

For more detailed sound, also check Elac 50 series speakers.

Another option is Paradigm CT series speakers.

Wharfedale obsidion pkg is also worth an auditing.

If budget id not a constraints, go for Paradigm Monitor series based pkg. That should deliver you great vocal details as well as the towers are worthy of stereo use which should satisfy your dual requirements of music plus movie. But, be careful while chowing an AVR to pair them with. Some people may find Paradigm a little forward sounding too.

That's my two bit....

Audition as many setups as possible. Try to make out the kind of sound signature you prefer (I.e. more bass / a sharper tweeter / more pronounced mid range or vocals / a more or less neutral sound etc.). After settling for a sound signature,ask the forum members which all setups you liked and what you liked about them and what quality would you prefer your set up to have, so they can suggest options in the same direction.

Enjoy your journey.... its a beautiful experience.

Cheers
Paritosh

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Hi Paritosh - thanks for your nice suggestion, indeed am enjoying this and I posted the experience. I found Elac starlet CM series great. Could not find the paradigm though as yet, may be when I am back in India, would try. Would you have an idea about Energy Take Classic 5.1 series or Mirage Nanosat, both I have heard, and so far they outscore all that I have listened to. Also MKII series.