I'm in a mess with channels, speakers and receivers/amplifiers for Dolby Atmos

[Frene]

I'm getting confused as there are several media players that specify this:

11.2 Channel Raw Output

What does this mean exactly? Does it mean that with a 11.2 channel media player I will be able to have a maximum of 11 speakers and 2 subwoofers whatever AV receiver or amplifier I use?

I have searched for information and I am not sure. I found this image:

There you see an 11.2 configuration with 11 speakers and 2 subwoofers. Suppose I buy an AV receiver like the Denon AVC-X8500H which is apparently a 13.2 channel receiver:

Several questions come to mind:

1- Could I get with that Denon up to 13.2 channels or if I am using a media player 11.2 am I limited to 11.2?
2- What's the difference between speakers and channels? i.e., for example, can I have for the surround channel 4 speakers for each side (i.e. 4 Left Side Surround and 4 Right Side Surround or would it only be 1 for each side and if I want more I would need another type of AV receiver or amplifier?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I'm getting confused as there are several media players that specify this:

11.2 Channel Raw Output

What does this mean exactly? Does it mean that with a 11.2 channel media player I will be able to have a maximum of 11 speakers and 2 subwoofers whatever AV receiver or amplifier I use?

I have searched for information and I am not sure. I found this image:

There you see an 11.2 configuration with 11 speakers and 2 subwoofers. Suppose I buy an AV receiver like the Denon AVC-X8500H which is apparently a 13.2 channel receiver:

Several questions come to mind:

1- Could I get with that Denon up to 13.2 channels or if I am using a media player 11.2 am I limited to 11.2?
2- What's the difference between speakers and channels? i.e., for example, can I have for the surround channel 4 speakers for each side (i.e. 4 Left Side Surround and 4 Right Side Surround or would it only be 1 for each side and if I want more I would need another type of AV receiver or amplifier?

Hi ...and welcome

Yes each channel is a speaker, when they say 11.2 channels. And the .2 is rightly inferred as 2 subwoofers.

You dont need a 11.2 channel media player. Any media player with a hdmi output will output all available audio channels on the disc or the movie file. The AVR will decipher the channel count from the hdmi input, and will assign sounds to each available channel. In case where the original audio file had only 5.1 channels of audio, the AVR can upmix same to 11.2 channels, so that all available audio channels ( speakers ) are utilized.

So you will have to choose which AVR you want to use depending on number of speakers you want to run. Some AVR's have in built amplification for less number of channels, but have preamp outputs to add external power amps, so that the desired number of speakers can be run. So if you want to save space and want to have only one AVR without external poweramps, then best to choose an AVR that has the required number of output amplification channels. That Denon that you posted has 13.2 channels, but 15 speaker binding posts at the back. So I think there are 2 channels available for a second zone. Will have to read the manual to find out what those extra 2 channels are for.

Besides, Iam posting a pic below of newer 11.2 configuration with Atmos speakers. There is still a debate wether Atmos or front / rear height channels are more effective. since most AVR's are running Dolby these days, I would vote for the below Dolby 11.1 channel configuration. ( Iam mentioning 11.1, as the below pic is only showing one subwoofer )

 

[Nitin K]

Your room size and sitting distance from the front speakers will determine the number of surround speakers and subwoofers you may require. If it is a small to medium size room say approx 16ft L X 12 ft W X 11ft H then a 5.1.2 or a 5.1.4 or 7.2.4 maximum channels should suffice.
If it is a very big room then it makes sense to go for more surround speakers and subwoofers as per what the avr supports.

 

[Frene]

Hi ...and welcome

Yes each channel is a speaker, when they say 11.2 channels. And the .2 is rightly inferred as 2 subwoofers.

Hi, thanks. But I don't understand it very well. I'm saying that because of this comment:

It depends not what ur trying to achieve. But it is not channel=speakers.

A channel can also have several speakers. Not necessarily separate. Cinemas for example can have multiple speakers for each channel.

You can see it in this thread:

Thread 'Channels vs speakers'

Jun 5, 2022

I have a very long standing doubt. Many people go for upgrades to include more channels in their sound stage. From 5.1 to 7.x and then to 11.x and so on. But what if more speakers are added into a say 7.2 set up in existing channels, given the sound signals are just shared, would just get more volume but not upmixing: BUT then we dont have many content that are meant for more than 7 channels either even for 2022 standards. So would it make sense to add more speakers than buying a costlier avr amp with more channel support?

• Donivlapog
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Speakers

• 

As I understand, for cinemas 7.1.2 is the Atmos bed but the Atmos for home (a near field remix) is 7.1.4.

Is that why some mediaplayers specify 11.2? Because of that 7.1.4 of the Atmos for home?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hi, thanks. But I don't understand it very well. I'm saying that because of this comment:

It depends not what ur trying to achieve. But it is not channel=speakers.

A channel can also have several speakers. Not necessarily separate. Cinemas for example can have multiple speakers for each channel.

You can see it in this thread:

Thread 'Channels vs speakers'

Jun 5, 2022

I have a very long standing doubt. Many people go for upgrades to include more channels in their sound stage. From 5.1 to 7.x and then to 11.x and so on. But what if more speakers are added into a say 7.2 set up in existing channels, given the sound signals are just shared, would just get more volume but not upmixing: BUT then we dont have many content that are meant for more than 7 channels either even for 2022 standards. So would it make sense to add more speakers than buying a costlier avr amp with more channel support?

• Donivlapog
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Speakers

• 

As I understand, for cinemas 7.1.2 is the Atmos bed but the Atmos for home (a near field remix) is 7.1.4.

Is that why some mediaplayers specify 11.2? Because of that 7.1.4 of the Atmos for home?

Well understood what the confusion is

In a home theatre, each channel is one location for sound playback. We can have one or many speakers per each channel. But for domestic rooms, one speaker per each location is adequate. This is the reason AVR's come with only one set of binding posts to connect only one speaker per channel.

Theoritically, we can take preamp outputs from a AVR or a Home theater processor, and use a splitter cable to feed a multichannel amplifier to drive several speakers to produce the same sound signal. And we can group all these speakers, into one location, and call it one channel. But in our domestic rooms, we do not need more than one channel. Besides, room correction over multiple speakers will be more miss than hit. Plus, we need a very big room to just house all these speakers.

So best to stick to one channel per speaker, and depending on your room and seating position, try to cover as many channels as you want. In my living room, I use 5.1.4 channels. Which is front, center, left, surround left, surroung right, two atmos front, two atmos back and one subwoofer. I would love to have rear surround channels too, but since I sit with my back to the wall, there is no room there to place extra speakers.

Coming to media players specifying 11.2 channels, that is new to me. Can you please share which media player you are referring to. The max channel count atmos supports is 128. The current processor that can process the max is a Trinnov at 32 channels. Atmos is a virtual object based sound format, which contains position and level of virtual soundsources which are mapped to the channels by your receiver depending on what speaker setup you have. So as you keeping increasing the channels, Atmos will start playing from more channels. So Iam confused at the mention of 11.2 channels being the limit.

 

[Nitin K]

Hi, thanks. But I don't understand it very well. I'm saying that because of this comment:

It depends not what ur trying to achieve. But it is not channel=speakers.

A channel can also have several speakers. Not necessarily separate. Cinemas for example can have multiple speakers for each channel.

You can see it in this thread:

Thread 'Channels vs speakers'

Jun 5, 2022

I have a very long standing doubt. Many people go for upgrades to include more channels in their sound stage. From 5.1 to 7.x and then to 11.x and so on. But what if more speakers are added into a say 7.2 set up in existing channels, given the sound signals are just shared, would just get more volume but not upmixing: BUT then we dont have many content that are meant for more than 7 channels either even for 2022 standards. So would it make sense to add more speakers than buying a costlier avr amp with more channel support?

• Donivlapog
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Speakers

• 

As I understand, for cinemas 7.1.2 is the Atmos bed but the Atmos for home (a near field remix) is 7.1.4.

Is that why some mediaplayers specify 11.2? Because of that 7.1.4 of the Atmos for home?

If you are setting up the HT in an home environment, then there is no need to confuse or overwhelm yourself with the channels the media players specify.
You can get a 4K bluray player or nvidia shield pro or a zidoo etc depending on your choice of source and just connect to the avr.

Pls do the room calibration using Audyssey or Dirac and the avr will do the channel separation processing. It's best to keep the chain as simple as possible.
The job of the media player is just to send the audio/visual signals via the hdmi connection to the avr and the avr separates the channels and sends them to the relevant speakers accordingly.

 

[Frene]

Coming to media players specifying 11.2 channels, that is new to me. Can you please share which media player you are referring to. The max channel count atmos supports is 128. The current processor that can process the max is a Trinnov at 32 channels. Atmos is a virtual object based sound format, which contains position and level of virtual soundsources which are mapped to the channels by your receiver depending on what speaker setup you have. So as you keeping increasing the channels, Atmos will start playing from more channels. So Iam confused at the mention of 11.2 channels being the limit.

It's this old media player from Egreat, I don't know if any of you know that brand. Here you can see some pictures of the box.

There you can see 11.2 Ch RAW Output. But I don't know if it refers to a limit. I would like to be sure and know what that is exactly:

And here you see DOLBY ATMOS / DTS X:

Egreat rear side (HDMI OUTPUT, STEREO AUDIO OUTPUT, OPTICAL / COAXIAL AUDIO OUTPUT):

I will read your messages carefully and then I will give you an answer. There is something I don't understand right now.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

It's this old media player from Egreat, I don't know if any of you know that brand. Here you can see some pictures of the box.

There you can see 11.2 Ch RAW Output. But I don't know if it refers to a limit. I would like to be sure and know what that is exactly:

And here you see DOLBY ATMOS / DTS X:

Egreat rear side (HDMI OUTPUT, STEREO AUDIO OUTPUT, OPTICAL / COAXIAL AUDIO OUTPUT):

I will read your messages carefully and then I will give you an answer. There is something I don't understand right now.

It will get very confusing with all these monikers on the box. So best to ignore them

The audio signal for each channel in a surround system is called as 1 channel of LPCM ( Linear PCM ). So to get 11.2 channels of audio takes 11.2 channels of LPCM, which is very big in data size. So Dolby and DTS came up with ways to compress these many channels into a smaller data size, without any loss of data. So the process of compressing multi channel audio into a smaller size is called encoding. And process of converting this small size data to full 11.2 channels of LPCM is called as decoding. Dolby, Dolby True-Hd, Dolby prologic are all different encoding formats only.

So Bluray or DVD disks are encoded in the studio. And when we spin the disk at home, the decoding takes place either in your Blue-ray player or inside the AVR. Now if the Blue-ray disk is encoded in a format that your AVR does not support, then it is possible to decode this in your Blue-ray player, and send it to your AVR via a hdmi cable as 5.1 or 7.1 or 11.2 channel LPCM, depending on how many channels have been encoded in the studio.

The 11.2 channel on that box is exactly saying only this. That if your AVR cannot decode, then the E-great player can decode and send upto 11.2 channel of LPCM audio.

However, as I already mentioned, all the new and current AVR's on the market, support all the available formats. So that 11.2 channel limit need not be considered, as the AVR will be doing the final decoding and no need for the E-great to do any decoding. Just buy any new AVR and just connec via hdmi to the E-great. Go into E-great settings and set audio output to bit stream. So then the E-great will just transmit bit perfect audio data to the AVR in whatever encoded format it might be in. Then the AVR will decode this back to 5.1 or 7.1 or 11.2 channel LPCM and play it back.