Impressions on - Genelec G3, Streamer (TBA), Subwoofer (TBA), Cables (TBA)

[chander]

This thread is going to reflect my impressions on multiple pieces of gear in my room & how they work - together. So it will be a small journey as I understand the system better. First impressions first.

#1 - Genelec G3

A little background - These speakers replace a passive system - Audiolab 6000a & Quad S1s. I was in love with this setup, with each equipment individually & their harmony together. I have used the said amp with a fair few speakers & for the price I believe this is a very hard amp to beat, specially at the price it was available 2 years ago. The Quads however, not the most accomplished speakers by any means - IN NEAR FIELD - they had a surreal quality about the vocals they generated which is hard to put in words. I have heard a fair number of speakers, in similar budget and above, and though many can beat the S1s in overall SQ and presentation, but the voices were addictive. Not accurate - just surreal - I am running out of words here.

Genelec G3s - I have been auditioning the G series (or 80x0) from Genelec for a while now - almost 2 years. Though G series is difficult to audition, the equivalent pro versions are easily available at almost any pro-music store across the world. The 2 series are identical in SQ/FR so easy to judge. From the get go, they have always impressed me, however when I heard the G3/8030 I was in love immediately. The G5/8050 are in a different league BTW, just too large for near field or even midfield. For my use case, G3 was the golden snitch . So I spent the better part of the last 2 years (since travel has been normalised again) to ALMOST exclusively audition Genelec G3s/8030. With all sorts of music, with spotify, with hi-res audio, with Qobuz with various streamers, and one thing was very evident. The speakers could play absolutely anything you throw at them with impressive presentation. That was a holy grail in my books! I jump from genre to genre all day.

See like I already mentioned, I was in love with my previous setup too, however, it did limit my choice of music that I listened too - primarily because of the Quad S1s (I have absolutely no complaints whatsoever with the AL 6000a; and I was very sad when I put it up for sale). They weren't very versatile. They kept surprising me every now and then, when I will change something or the other - so; on second thought, maybe I never really realised their full potential. Regardless the S1s directed that I stayed pretty much in a bubble of music genres, rarely straying away. And...

That is the reason G3s came in. They came home, plugged in, no hassle, straight up, first song, The Black Keys - The Big Come Up, 2002 Album. The whole album! And finally there it was - that raspy distorted guitar. OH! I missed that! A lot! In 2 years I finally crossed the 80 DB threshold for a whole album - clean, non-fatiguing, absolute bliss.

Without getting into too many superlatives, I will keep it short and sweet. The G3s/8030 do what they are supposed to do. Reproduce absolutely anything you throw at them with composure and authority, without being too fussy.

If I have to find cons -
1 - I do miss the vocals produced by the S1s. G3s do nothing wrong BTW, but I guess I am too used to the S1s vocals - whatever EQ they put in there with that folded ribbon tweeter - was magic. I am getting sidetracked again.
2 - They need a sub, YES, they pretty much fall off a cliff below 50HZ. But I knew this before I purchased these. That is why it took 2 years You won't notice it in most music, but you do when you start on the jazz & the orchestra stuff.

The sub is on it's way - and will be the second component I will put down the impressions for; after a few days of integration!

Cheers!
Chander.

 

[aeroash]

I'm glad that you've embraced them and hopefully more folks here warm up to the idea of pro-audio being an absolute bargain.
A little work on the aesthetics from the pro-audio manufacturers to make them look more living-room-friendly will have more takers.
Congrats on your purchase, and happy listening! At 80db, it sure is a house party.

 

[hydra]

Congratulations, Chander! If I were starting out with building a system now, I the G3 are exactly what I'd start with. (G3s, a subwoofer and a Roon Ready Streamer+DAC).

Over the last 2 years I've warmed up very much to pro-audio components and the immense value proposition that they represent. That, and the sheer lack of complexity in terms of components and wires.

I'm looking forward to the rest of your components coming in,and to reading your impressions.

 

[chander]

Impressions
#2 - Cambridge Audio CXN V2 -
Even though I had the BS Node 2i, I went ahead and got this as the XLRs were a requirement but that point is moot now, as I have got a DAC with XLR outs. So, an impulsive purchase? YES. But.. well..

Comparisons with BS node 2i - This was way easier than comparing anything else. As the G3 have both the RCA in & XLR in. So an A/B was possible. Maybe not apples to apple if you get into the RCA/XLR debate - but going for the best each can offer, I think it is fair.
To begin with they both have a very different sound, so instead of getting into which one is better, I would say, if you prefer neutral (can be boring for some), CXN V2 gets you much closer to that - so suits my needs very well and closer to my preferred sound signature. Node 2i has a very exciting sound; so, though it suited my previous combo very well, in this setup, it sounds bass heavy. So the decision was easy, CXN stays.

Comparing CXN V2, XLR vs RCA - Here I had some problems, as both RCA & XLR on CXN are active at the same time, I was very scared to plug them both together in the G3, so a little bit of changing cables was required. So no blind testing, no A/B. But on the XLR the background is completely quiet - almost like life has been sucked out of the sound. That led to a very interesting finding, the RCA sound, was much preferred in the beginning, till I got used to the XLR sound. Now it is much closer (though I am not sure if I will be able to tell them apart in a blind test). I also learnt that there is some magic in noise/distortion (perhaps induced by the cobweb of wires running around the speakers, I counted 8 power cables and around that many ICs), that we have all been so used to, that when you take that away, the music sounds wrong. In my case I have learnt to love the dead background and now RCA sounds off - but amazing nonetheless. I am sure 99.9% of the people will be fine either way. BTW, the RCA cables I have been using for these tests has been MOGAMI 2497 Neglex and that cable itself is magic .

Why CXN V2 - This is a tough one, I have been meaning to upgrade my streamer. After a lot of research and a few demos in various setups, the 4 candidates that topped the list were - Naim Uniti Atom HP edition, Matrix Audio element i2, Auralic Aries G1 (not the transport) & CXN V2. I never got a demo of the Matrix and as I wasn't ready to shell out on reviews alone, provided the other 3 I heard, were fantastic too. The interesting part was that of the few demos I did hear, CXN was always comparable to the "better ones". They all have different sounds & different strengths & weaknesses, so it all boils down to preference. To my ears, what CXN was doing at a fraction of the cost of the others, was perfectly fine. Yes the Auralic had very controlled bass, Naim had beautiful voices, but CXN did everything just fine too, a bit boring in comparison, but perfectly fine.
***BTW - the CXN is pretty good on it's own and I didn't need a DAC, I however do have a couple of troubling frequencies in my room, hence the RME - to get a slightly flatter response. As supposedly - RME has no sound, so I am hoping, that it keeps the CXN sound intact, while removing the troublesome frequencies. HOPING.

Now that boring sound is what I like, exciting sound, though thrilling gets fatiguing after a while - FOR ME. Hence as far as my IEMs are concerned, I have Etymotic ER4XR & Westone pro 3, after owning a few which are considered better & are way more expensive.

In all honesty, if you are looking for AIO box, CXN V2 is a worthy contender. And DO AUDITION, you will be surprised, how many times you will love the cheaper product .

Anyone looking for a BS Node 2i - let me know. It is going.

Cheers!
Chander

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Quite a frank write-up. I especially liked reading the ambivalence on silent/dead background and euphonic distortion (while comparing XLR vs RCA). It’s tricky - I experience something similar when I use the digital pre in the CXN and bypass the integrated amp’s pre section. The background goes silent, but the music also feels bit inert. When I bring the integrated’s pre back in, it sounds more musical, though less clear. It’s upto the individual what they like. After all, music is a hobby and there’s no one best way to enjoy it.

One of the concerns people have about active speakers is that they sound clinical/non-forgiving and fatiguing. It’s nice to see your experience with the G3 suggests that not all actives are so.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Impressions
#2 - Cambridge Audio CXN V2 -
Even though I had the BS Node 2i, I went ahead and got this as the XLRs were a requirement but that point is moot now, as I have got a DAC with XLR outs. So, an impulsive purchase? YES. But.. well..

Comparisons with BS node 2i - This was way easier than comparing anything else. As the G3 have both the RCA in & XLR in. So an A/B was possible. Maybe not apples to apple if you get into the RCA/XLR debate - but going for the best each can offer, I think it is fair.
To begin with they both have a very different sound, so instead of getting into which one is better, I would say, if you prefer neutral (can be boring for some), CXN V2 gets you much closer to that - so suits my needs very well and closer to my preferred sound signature. Node 2i has a very exciting sound; so, though it suited my previous combo very well, in this setup, it sounds bass heavy. So the decision was easy, CXN stays.

Comparing CXN V2, XLR vs RCA - Here I had some problems, as both RCA & XLR on CXN are active at the same time, I was very scared to plug them both together in the G3, so a little bit of changing cables was required. So no blind testing, no A/B. But on the XLR the background is completely quiet - almost like life has been sucked out of the sound. That led to a very interesting finding, the RCA sound, was much preferred in the beginning, till I got used to the XLR sound. Now it is much closer (though I am not sure if I will be able to tell them apart in a blind test). I also learnt that there is some magic in noise/distortion (perhaps induced by the cobweb of wires running around the speakers, I counted 8 power cables and around that many ICs), that we have all been so used to, that when you take that away, the music sounds wrong. In my case I have learnt to love the dead background and now RCA sounds off - but amazing nonetheless. I am sure 99.9% of the people will be fine either way. BTW, the RCA cables I have been using for these tests has been MOGAMI 2497 Neglex and that cable itself is magic .

Why CXN V2 - This is a tough one, I have been meaning to upgrade my streamer. After a lot of research and a few demos in various setups, the 4 candidates that topped the list were - Naim Uniti Atom HP edition, Matrix Audio element i2, Auralic Aries G1 (not the transport) & CXN V2. I never got a demo of the Matrix and as I wasn't ready to shell out on reviews alone, provided the other 3 I heard, were fantastic too. The interesting part was that of the few demos I did hear, CXN was always comparable to the "better ones". They all have different sounds & different strengths & weaknesses, so it all boils down to preference. To my ears, what CXN was doing at a fraction of the cost of the others, was perfectly fine. Yes the Auralic had very controlled bass, Naim had beautiful voices, but CXN did everything just fine too, a bit boring in comparison, but perfectly fine.
***BTW - the CXN is pretty good on it's own and I didn't need a DAC, I however do have a couple of troubling frequencies in my room, hence the RME - to get a slightly flatter response. As supposedly - RME has no sound, so I am hoping, that it keeps the CXN sound intact, while removing the troublesome frequencies. HOPING.

Now that boring sound is what I like, exciting sound, though thrilling gets fatiguing after a while - FOR ME. Hence as far as my IEMs are concerned, I have Etymotic ER4XR & Westone pro 3, after owning a few which are considered better & are way more expensive.

In all honesty, if you are looking for AIO box, CXN V2 is a worthy contender. And DO AUDITION, you will be surprised, how many times you will love the cheaper product .

Anyone looking for a BS Node 2i - let me know. It is going.

Cheers!
Chander

Excellent write up @chander ...

Thought I'd chip in my 2 cents worth. If you are considering adding some peq to tame existing bass nodes. Then it is best to do it in the digital realm before the digital to analogue conversion. I don't know which RME unit you are considering, but if you are using any kind of pc to stream, then a lot of the usual players like jriver and audirvana have built-in plug-ins for the same. If you are considering a separate box, then the minidsp Studio will do a lot more than simple correction including Dirac live. There are many more ways to accomplish bass correction. But I guess they can wait for later. Time to sit down and enjoy your music for a while, no point being on the chase all the time

 

[chander]

Excellent write up @chander ...

Thought I'd chip in my 2 cents worth. If you are considering adding some peq to tame existing bass nodes. Then it is best to do it in the digital realm before the digital to analogue conversion. I don't know which RME unit you are considering, but if you are using any kind of pc to stream, then a lot of the usual players like jriver and audirvana have built-in plug-ins for the same. If you are considering a separate box, then the minidsp Studio will do a lot more than simple correction including Dirac live. There are many more ways to accomplish bass correction. But I guess they can wait for later. Time to sit down and enjoy your music for a while, no point being on the chase all the time

Brilliant -Thank you @Yelamanchili manohar !!
Today - I finishing calibrating the subwoofer & speaker to the best of my abilities - by ear. A Umik 1 is on the way to get deeper understanding of what's happening. By the ear, I believe the sound is pretty perfect, but I guess the UMIK is going to be a good to know more than anything else.

Regarding the PEQ, the RME is going to be the DAC and the equaliser & will be fed through a streamer, now I am not aware whether the PEQ is applied by REW before or after the DA conversion, but currently I am at it's mercy. So lets see.

Thanks!

 

[keith_correa]

<snip>If you are considering adding some peq to tame existing bass nodes. Then...<snip>

Why would one want to "tame" a bass node? You'd want it boosted, no?

 

[aeroash]

Brilliant -Thank you @Yelamanchili manohar !!
Regarding the PEQ, the RME is going to be the DAC and the equaliser & will be fed through a streamer, now I am not aware whether the PEQ is applied by REW before or after the DA conversion, but currently I am at it's mercy. So lets see.

Unless you're using a miniDSP, or a computer you cannot use REW filters. I'm assuming your current source is CXN, in which case all you can do is measure with REW, find the peaks, and then use the PEQ in RME to tame the peaks. Don't think of boosting any nulls, tame the peaks instead.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Why would one want to "tame" a bass node? You'd want it boosted, no?

I typed a mode, and it came as a node . Thanks to my recent search on the bluesound node. I guess we all know there is little point in trying to fill a node, it's close to impossible with just 2 speakers. But since @chander has a sub too, I guess its fillable with the ideal positioning

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Unless you're using a miniDSP, or a computer you cannot use REW filters. I'm assuming your current source is CXN, in which case all you can do is measure with REW, find the peaks, and then use the PEQ in RME to tame the peaks. Don't think of boosting any nulls, tame the peaks instead.

I think RME has inbuilt peq in the digital domain, so can chop off a few peaks in the bass region after measuring them with REW. And then the digital signal is fed to the DA convertor. The filters once applied in the RME will stay I believe. Though I don't know if it has multiple user configuration options to save several presets like the minidsp.

 

[chander]

Impressions -
#3 - 7040 Sub & integration with Genelec G3.

Genelec suggests using 7050 with G3 & I am glad here I got the 7040 (the smaller sub), because even this is way too powerful - with +12Db sensitivity (-6DBU to +12DBU), 0 Deg Phase (still need to play with this) & -6DB bas roll off, it sounds pretty good. CXN V2 is connected to the subwoofer XLR in & the speakers are connected to Sub XLR out. Absolutely no dip switches are engaged on the speakers. The subwoofer applies a 85Hz high pass filter automatically with no option to change this.

With the settings stated above - I can't locate the subwoofer and it seems pretty well integrated, unless I go above 90 DB, where the sub becomes way too powerful - luckily, that is not "currently" an issue.

The two things that the sub has improved - which I didn't think could be improved upon by MUCH -
1 - Obviously the bass. I knew this would improve, but I didn't expect it to improve it to a point that the sound signature has changed. The entire sound seems larger, the kind that Mogami 2497 gave to this system - the sound I was chasing. Now I think it is closer to that, maybe even better. Though I am done comparing and now only enjoying music.
2 - Clarity - with the speakers now not doing the low bass (which they can't anyway); the speakers sound clearer. Perhaps due to less reflection from the surfaces. That also contributes to the point above.

A third point would be - not an improvement but a new thing altogether. With the sub integrated properly, the room seems to reverberate less, which is exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. Earlier I had issues between 80-110 HZ in my room, with my previous setup and this. However now the issue seems to have disappeared and I have a new one - 40Hz & below. Which also only appears, when I play 40Hz test tones higher that 90Db. For my day to day listening - that gives 0 issues.

** The above measurements are taken using Decibel X & spectrum analyser & playing high res test tones via a HD. So if I have understood anything wrong here, please go easy, as I am a tech dud

A request - if anybody knows what the sensitivity of -6DBU to +12dbU is exactly I would be grateful. Logically I understand it's volume control I am guessing, but the strange thing is as I go towards the negative values, the subwoofer gets louder and boomier (which is the opposite of what it should be doing) & Genelec Manual says this -
"The 7040A has the same sensitivity as 8010, 8020 and M030 monitors in free field. However, when placed near reflecting surfaces the sensitivity of 7040A typically must be attenuated due to increased wall loading. A typical initial setting for the rotary sensitivity control is -4 dBu. The +12 dBu setting provides maximum attenuation"
Another is I have been playing with the phase & whatever I keep it at, I can't hear a difference. DBX also measure the same DB level. Waiting for Umik 1 to arrive, so I can then follow Genelecs guidelines, but if anyone in the meantime has any "guru gyaan" it will be helpful.

thanks!

 

[chander]

Unless you're using a miniDSP, or a computer you cannot use REW filters. I'm assuming your current source is CXN, in which case all you can do is measure with REW, find the peaks, and then use the PEQ in RME to tame the peaks. Don't think of boosting any nulls, tame the peaks instead.

The idea is to use PEQ on the RME to help if any issues show up.

I think RME has inbuilt peq in the digital domain, so can chop off a few peaks in the bass region after measuring them with REW. And then the digital signal is fed to the DA convertor. The filters once applied in the RME will stay I believe. Though I don't know if it has multiple user configuration options to save several presets like the minidsp.

As far as I know it does save PEQ profiles and you can use any of them. I think, I will confirm once I have it.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Impressions -
#3 - 7040 Sub & integration with Genelec G3.

Genelec suggests using 7050 with G3 & I am glad here I got the 7040 (the smaller sub), because even this is way too powerful - with +12Db sensitivity (-6DBU to +12DBU), 0 Deg Phase (still need to play with this) & -6DB bas roll off, it sounds pretty good. CXN V2 is connected to the subwoofer XLR in & the speakers are connected to Sub XLR out. Absolutely no dip switches are engaged on the speakers. The subwoofer applies a 85Hz high pass filter automatically with no option to change this.

With the settings stated above - I can't locate the subwoofer and it seems pretty well integrated, unless I go above 90 DB, where the sub becomes way too powerful - luckily, that is not "currently" an issue.

The two things that the sub has improved - which I didn't think could be improved upon by MUCH -
1 - Obviously the bass. I knew this would improve, but I didn't expect it to improve it to a point that the sound signature has changed. The entire sound seems larger, the kind that Mogami 2497 gave to this system - the sound I was chasing. Now I think it is closer to that, maybe even better. Though I am done comparing and now only enjoying music.
2 - Clarity - with the speakers now not doing the low bass (which they can't anyway); the speakers sound clearer. Perhaps due to less reflection from the surfaces. That also contributes to the point above.

A third point would be - not an improvement but a new thing altogether. With the sub integrated properly, the room seems to reverberate less, which is exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. Earlier I had issues between 80-110 HZ in my room, with my previous setup and this. However now the issue seems to have disappeared and I have a new one - 40Hz & below. Which also only appears, when I play 40Hz test tones higher that 90Db. For my day to day listening - that gives 0 issues.

** The above measurements are taken using Decibel X & spectrum analyser & playing high res test tones via a HD. So if I have understood anything wrong here, please go easy, as I am a tech dud

A request - if anybody knows what the sensitivity of -6DBU to +12dbU is exactly I would be grateful. Logically I understand it's volume control I am guessing, but the strange thing is as I go towards the negative values, the subwoofer gets louder and boomier (which is the opposite of what it should be doing) & Genelec Manual says this -
"The 7040A has the same sensitivity as 8010, 8020 and M030 monitors in free field. However, when placed near reflecting surfaces the sensitivity of 7040A typically must be attenuated due to increased wall loading. A typical initial setting for the rotary sensitivity control is -4 dBu. The +12 dBu setting provides maximum attenuation"
Another is I have been playing with the phase & whatever I keep it at, I can't hear a difference. DBX also measure the same DB level. Waiting for Umik 1 to arrive, so I can then follow Genelecs guidelines, but if anyone in the meantime has any "guru gyaan" it will be helpful.

thanks!

I did a quick Google search of the gain knob. And apparently it is for adjusting the gain of the incoming signal. ( by dailing this into negative territory, you telling the sub that the incoming signal is lesser than the reference 0 dB signal. Thus it is amplifying) Thus if reducing the gain is increasing the volume of the sub and speakers, then Google baba is right. However, if it is increasing only the sub, then more Google research will be required.

 

[Nikhil]

Chander, any chance you can share some pictures of your setup and what your room looks like?


.

 

[chander]

Chander, any chance you can share some pictures of your setup and what your room looks like?

I will be sharing pictures soon. Just want to have everything setup first. Wire management etc

 

[Shinto]

I am awaiting delivery of 8050B. 3 of them actually to cover the home theater duties as well. May I ask how do you control the volume on them. Do you use a separate preamp or is it the bluesound/cambridge's nodes volume control.

 

[chander]

I am awaiting delivery of 8050B. 3 of them actually to cover the home theater duties as well. May I ask how do you control the volume on them. Do you use a separate preamp or is it the bluesound/cambridge's nodes volume control.

Presently I am in my setup using CA CXN V2 as the DAC preamp & source. A dac/preamp is on it's way, reducing CXN V2 to the Source duties only.

In your case - as you are planning to use this setup for HT, I believe you must have an AVR? If so, that should also double as volume control, right?

 

[Shinto]

Presently I am in my setup using CA CXN V2 as the DAC preamp & source. A dac/preamp is on it's way, reducing CXN V2 to the Source duties only.

In your case - as you are planning to use this setup for HT, I believe you must have an AVR? If so, that should also double as volume control, right?

Yes I will start by using the AVR s volume control. Source/DAC for 2 channel will be a Marantz NA8005 wired via RCA to the AVR analogue input. AVR front L and R preouts will be wired using RCA to XLR cable to L and R 8050b s. And centre preout of AVR wired to the third 8050b for centre channel. This is the plan for now.Hope this works without issues for now.I might need to get a a proper Preamp for 2 channel. This would need some sort of switching between AVR and 2 channel Preout then I guess.

 

[chander]

Yes I will start by using the AVR s volume control. Source/DAC for 2 channel will be a Marantz NA8005 wired via RCA to the AVR analogue input. AVR front L and R preouts will be wired using RCA to XLR cable to L and R 8050b s. And centre preout of AVR wired to the third 8050b for centre channel. This is the plan for now.Hope this works without issues for now.I might need to get a a proper Preamp for 2 channel. This would need some sort of switching between AVR and 2 channel Preout then I guess.

Not an expert here, but your plan is fine. Also for the L&R by going RCA to XLR you are just paying for a cable that is not going to benefit you in any way - as the signal is still unbalanced. I would suggest go for a good RCA from the studio world like Mogami/Gotham and you will be fine. IMO.
Regarding a preamp for 2 channel, that is a fine idea. Yes can be done and will definitely benefit the SQ of the L/R and can be done easily - as far as I know. If you are into tubes, try a tube preamp - I auditioned a tube pre-amp with G3s and it sounds very different and pleasing. The SQ changes to something I can't describe, but no harm auditioning if you have that option.