KEF R300 Demo unit

[raghupb]

I have the chance to acquire a demo unit pair of KEF R300 from UK.
One of my relatives is relocating back and willing to get it along with his other items.

The pair is available for GBP 700 (converted to Rs. 70,000) with full UK warranty (UK warranty is 5 years)
Do you guys think it is a fair price?
Any risks to be aware of?

Regards,
Raghu

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

Passive speakers are usually a safe bet to import. Pricing i'm not aware. When it comes to warranty, I am not sure if you should even look into it. Are you gonna take it back to UK if warranty issues come up?

Personally I am skeptical about importing electronics like receivers since warranty can become an issue. Usually electronics tend to have issues from time to time. Some issues usually come up only with use and time. So when issues come up what will you do?
Amplifiers on the other hand are a different beast and can be easily and quite quickly tested and are a much safer bet to import than receivers. Secondly, amplifiers usually are of really good build quality.

With passive speakers concerns are quite minimal. IMHO, it is less risky to get speakers.

 

[raghupb]

@ShaQ.Blogs, thanks for the inputs.

The warranty is for UK. But if the dealer/manufacturer is confident of honoring it on a demo piece, then there is hopefully no issues. This is just for my peace of mind and rationalization. If something goes wrong after they land in India, yes I am out of luck.

As for pricing, ProFx lists at 1.21L in India (and is currently out of stock as per their website). It retails for a new pair for GBP 1000 in the UK. So a 30% reduction for demo speakers sounds good. Hoping they have been played enough and are out of break in period.

I have heard the Q-series in Bangalore and they sounded really good. I auditioned the floor standers Q500 and Q700 a while ago at ProFx. May be overkill in my home (12' x 12' effective listening area). Now I have changed my mind about FS speakers. Have 2 dogs at home, do not want to risk them. BS speakers I can place in my AV unit.

The sources/amps I currently have are:
Marantz NR1605 (mainly used for movies)
Marantz PM7001 (for music; currently used as pre-amp)
2x Outlaw M2200 monoblocks (servicing both movie and music setups via wire swapping; yes it is a pain)
Will be getting a Schiit Modi-2-Uber DAC and Schiit SYS in Nov/Dec. These will hopefully solve my digital music and switcher problems.

If I decide on the KEFs they will be replacing BW DM303s (15 years old)

 

[mpw]

if you are going to place the speakers "in" your AV unit - then we are not sure how it will sound.

speakers are measured in free space.

this is just a thought - before you invest close to inr RS 70000 and take all that trouble to get the speakers here.

try to place them on stands - but that beings the pets into the equation and that in turn means a small profile floor stander will be nice for you.

maybe a custom built one ?


btw... where are the B&W DM 303's placed now ?

regards

 

[raghupb]

@mpw, Thanks for the inputs.

Space is a premium in my apartment. So I have to make it work in the best possible way. The reason for acquiring new speakers are because I need to return the B&Ws to my dad's setup.

These pics should give an idea of the AV unit and speaker placement. Currently the BS speakers are placed about 8" from back panel (plywood) and 3 sides open. The AV unit is still work-in-progess (carpentry is my passion or obsession depending on who you talk to)

Speaker stands are an option. Maybe custom built with metal/wood combination. I do have some wood leftover from this project (ply and hardwood). This gives the option of moving speakers forward in the open when required.

Regards,
Raghu

 

[reju]

Selling price of R300 should be around 1L. 30K difference maybe good for brand new speakers. But for a demo unit and for the trouble of getting it here, I would not really recommend it. 5 years UK warranty is as good as no warranty here.
Profx website may not be updated. Check with them.

 

[SatMumbai]

I have bought a Demo pair of Kef R300 in Germany for 800 Euro in 2012. I wanted to bring them with me to India during relocation, but then decided for other speakers for different reasons.
So, pricing wise, it could be a bit less. 30% off is good but it could get sweeter as well.
Regarding the general SQ of speakers, I like R series and they do many things right. They are a bit dark and the bass is not very tight. Please note that I am comparing it to KEF reference 201/2 when I make these observations.
So, what it means is, if you get / are obsessed with the hobby and keep upgrading then may be you need to demo more before you commit. But if you want to stick to these speakers for next 5 years or so, then I think it is a good purchase.

Also, the speakers are quite large and so who ever is bringing it should also account for the original packaging or extra packing which will make them even more bulkier. With customs, I did not have a good experience with transfer of residence. We had quite a few electronics but all are more than a year old and self used, but the customs, if they go by the books (and nothing is written very clearly), then the duties might get very high.

 

[raghupb]

@reju and @SatMumbai. Thanks for your inputs and suggestions.

Packing and shipping wise, I am not too worried. The original packing is available and shipping is being borne by my cousin's company. Duties after they land here; we will have to wing it. Hoping to strike a bulk rate that is reasonable if it comes to it.

About upgrade-itis, I am usually patient. Every major electronics buy has been kept for 5+ years. This time around I need bookshelves to replace my existing BW303s.

Maybe I should take my amps and walk into ProFx Bangalore and take an audition this weekend and check out local pricing.

Regards,
Raghu

 

[SatMumbai]

No Demo, Demo in Shop, Demo at home - Nothing to beat the demo at home. If you can, please try that. I have had several instances where the same speaker sounded quite a bit different at home vs shop. But I also can understand it might be not that simple.
If you are coming from DM303, I definitely can say that it will be a big improvement.
I do not want to confuse at this point but I just want to share my preferences here. Kef Reference 201/2 was the one which sounded right even a BS speaker. Otherwise, FS speakers sound a bit more un-congested to my ears. At Devialet Phantom level, things are quite different as somehow they are defying physics but normally to make complicated music sound uncluttered I prefer a FS any day. Again this is individual taste and I feel that the same drivers with a larger volume cabinet behave quite differently.
I am aware that you mentioned that for many other reasons FS won't fit but to be honest I was more impressed with R500 than R300 but some common reasons you mentioned I went for R300 for a short period of time.

Also, I do not know why you might need PM7001 in the equations especially when it is only used as pre-map. I am aware of the Marantz components, and so if you try only NR1605 and remove PM7001 completely from the equation, may be there is no perceivable difference? Just a thought.

 

[raghupb]

@SatMumbai, good points and suggestions. Thanks for the feedback on R300 performance.

I will try a home demo. But first let me go there and sample a few BS speakers (KEF/Polk) at ProFx and then ask for a home demo on may be one or two models if they are open to the idea.

FS will be difficult in my place due to space constraints and my canines. The dogs are quite rowdy when playing around. Initially I was thinking about FS but then wife drove home a very logical point.

The amps powering the speakers will be 2 Outlaw Audio monoblocks. They sound much better than amps in PM7001 or NR1605. I like the PM7001 for its simplicity. Plug in and play. AVR needs calibration to get it right.

I am also acquiring a DAC and passive pre from Schiit in Nov. So if things go right, I may be able to eliminate the Integrated amp/AVR completely. The eventual music chain may look like:
HDD --> Laptop --> DAC (USB) --> passive pre --> Outlaw amps --> Speakers
HDD --> Media Player --> DAC (Dig) --> passive pre --> Outlaw amps --> Speakers
The 1st chain is preferred as it provides flexibility of playlists, replay-gain using software and small footprint.

For movies I have a active soundbar that decodes Dolby/DTS which is working out well.

I think it is time to go and listen to speakers.

Regards,
Raghu

 

[manniraj]

I think for relocation their should not be any custom duties charged.

 

[raghupb]

@manniraj

As per customs dept, speakers comes under "music system" and attract a "reduced" duty of 15% + 3% cess.

But the duties are at the discretion of the customs officer. If they are convinced the items (new or old) are being imported for personal use they may forego the duty. If it is used, yearly depreciation may also be a consideration when calculating duty.

Regards,
Raghu

 

[manniraj]

@manniraj

As per customs dept, speakers comes under "music system" and attract a "reduced" duty of 15% + 3% cess.

But the duties are at the discretion of the customs officer. If they are convinced the items (new or old) are being imported for personal use they may forego the duty. If it is used, yearly depreciation may also be a consideration when calculating duty.

Regards,
Raghu

Yes thats correct but your friend is returning back to India after considerable amount of time spending abroad. Also his company is providing him the relocation expenses thats what you mentioned earlier right, so I presume that all the items that he owns are being relocated to India. Most probably this is via a container which I believe is exempted from customs as its ones own used goods and being taken back to the home country. So your speakers as well he can carry along in the container and get the exemptions. I am not well versed in this but there are some people who relocated to India from abroad and had all of their items shifted without any customs which also includes electronic items. I think their is a proper channel/forms through which this needs to be done and I hope your friend is getting it done the same way through his company who normally do it with proper approvals and papers.

 

[SatMumbai]

Most probably this is via a container which I believe is exempted from customs as its ones own used goods and being taken back to the home country. So your speakers as well he can carry along in the container and get the exemptions. I am not well versed in this but there are some people who relocated to India from abroad and had all of their items shifted without any customs which also includes electronic items. I think their is a proper channel/forms through which this needs to be done and I hope your friend is getting it done the same way through his company who normally do it with proper approvals and papers.

I relocated from Germany after several years and there are some exceptions but it is neither very simple nor clear. I have seen some one fighting with the customs officer because a laptop was shipped for wahtever reason and they still want to charge customs duty for about 4 year old laptop at a price on their terms.
I do not want to scare aware the OP but just want him to be prepared. I paid 70000 INR as customs for all the stuff that are originally bought and owned by me and all of them are over 1 year of ownership. I was at customs office at 10.30 in the morning and my packages were released only at 8.30 PM after paying the money. There is an agent in between as well and he negotiated for some discounts but I think he did more harm than good.

 

[raghupb]

Customs is always touch and go. My cousin is relocating via company affiliated agency. He has been abroad for 12 years with the last 3 in UK. Some of the stuff he is bringing over are stuff he bought when he was in Holland.

I am waiting for his confirmation if the container is coming to Bangalore directly. If so customs clearance at Inland Container Depot in Bangalore is usually hassle free. Proper paperwork and a familiar agent will work. If not a "jugaad".

I have until end of this month to take a call. Let's see how the auditions and other things go.

-RP

 

[sidvee]

I got a 40' container after 20 years in US. Original charge was 10 lac., after negotiation by my agent (through my company which is very large International corporation) it was 1 lac. Getting anything in a container duty free (i.e; without paying money) will happen only when "Acche Din are here":lol:
Cheers,
Sid

 

[raghupb]

Quick update on this thread.

The container landed a couple weeks ago at Internal Container Depot, Bangalore.
My cousin had to go identify and claim his shipment. No issues with customs. Whatever incidentals will be paid for by his employer; he mentioned it was part of the relocation deal. The entire shipment is due to arrive at my cousin's home today. Hopefully I will be able to pick up the speakers later this evening.

Have started hunting for stands now. As an added bonus, my dad said I could keep the DM303s and the DM LCR center for a 5.0 setup. Will update after I hear them at home.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[regeHA]

Nice. Great speakers that are complete allrounders and not very fussy either.

What are you planning for the amp? Mine really came into their own with the K3, performance was so so on a Marantz prior to that.

 

[raghupb]

Music chain will be:
Asus MP/Onkyo CD-DVD/Laptop --> Schiit Modi-2-Uber --> Marantz PM7001 --> Outlaw M2200 x 2

Video chain will be:
Asus MP/Onkyo CD-DVD/Laptop --> Marantz NR1605 (for C/SL/SR) --> Outlaw M2200 x 2 (for L/R)

I have Schiit SYS switcher between the PM7001/NR1605 pre-outs and the Outlaws.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[regeHA]

I highly recommend adding a Raspberry Pi as the source/transport with an external NAS. Even an external HDD plugged into the Pi will do. Run something like MinimServer or moOde on the Pi.

It has been a huge gamechanger for me. Lots more detail, sweeter vocals, the top end has smoothened out, and most of all the speakers have disappeared. I cannot place them. In fact I have a pair of JBL Pro monitors that I point to as the speakers and everybody believes it.