Marantz PM 5004/5 vs Emotiva X-A100 mini vs Yamaha R-S 201

[akstorm]

Hey everyone,

So I decided to ditch my t-amp and get an good old a/b amp.

Now I shortlisted it down to these, I have already auditioned the marantz and the yamaha, will try the Emotiva also tomorrow. The two do sound different(tested with different speakers, but both sound good to me)

I am kind of bending towards the Yamaha for three reasons, one it's slightly cheaper (5k) than the marantz (same as the emotiva more or less) and two it has a built in tuner and three and most important it has double the power of the other two. And since I am looking at reasonably demanding speakers (dali zensor 1 or warfedale diamond 220) the more power would be nice. (Also it has a remote )

I really don't need multiple inputs, all my inputs will come through my dac.

So, should I get the Yamaha or the marantz or the Emotiva?

Thanks for your inputs in advance.

 

[spandan414]

I have been using Marantz PM 5004 with Wharfedale Diamond 220s for 2 months now. Its a really good combination. You wont find this combination lacking power. It gets really loud (neighbors knocking on the door loud ) if i turn the volume up more than 30%. Marantz has a remote too.

 

[raghupb]

Hey everyone,

So I decided to ditch my t-amp and get an good old a/b amp.

Now I shortlisted it down to these, I have already auditioned the marantz and the yamaha, will try the Emotiva also tomorrow. The two do sound different(tested with different speakers, but both sound good to me)

I am kind of bending towards the Yamaha for three reasons, one it's slightly cheaper (5k) than the marantz (same as the emotiva more or less) and two it has a built in tuner and three and most important it has double the power of the other two. And since I am looking at reasonably demanding speakers (dali zensor 1 or warfedale diamond 220) the more power would be nice. (Also it has a remote )

I really don't need multiple inputs, all my inputs will come through my dac.

So, should I get the Yamaha or the marantz or the Emotiva?

Thanks for your inputs in advance.

Yamaha looks like a nice featured stereo receiver. But one spec is worrying.

Yamaha India website: Maximum Power(8 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD) 85 W + 85 W
From US site manual:
Minimum RMS output power (8 ?, 40 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.2% THD)
[Asia model] 85 W + 85 W
Power consumption
[Asia model] 140 W

10% THD is way into audible range for SS electronics, which means RMS power at 8 ohms may be lower.
Minimum is possibly a typo in the manual, someone forgot to proof read.
Power output vs power consumption numbers do not make sense too.

Since you have narrowed down speakers to Dali/Wharfedale, acquire the speakers and then go amp shopping with them.
Why second guess a combination when you can audition?

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[akstorm]

Yamaha looks like a nice featured stereo receiver. But one spec is worrying.

Yamaha India website: Maximum Power(8 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD) 85 W + 85 W
From US site manual:
Minimum RMS output power (8 ?, 40 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.2% THD)
[Asia model] 85 W + 85 W
Power consumption
[Asia model] 140 W

10% THD is way into audible range for SS electronics, which means RMS power at 8 ohms may be lower.
Minimum is possibly a typo in the manual, someone forgot to proof read.
Power output vs power consumption numbers do not make sense too.

Since you have narrowed down speakers to Dali/Wharfedale, acquire the speakers and then go amp shopping with them.
Why second guess a combination when you can audition?

Cheers,
Raghu

has to be a mistake on the website. 10% THD is t-amp domain.

And thanks for the help, so I am supposed to Match spekers to amps or vice versa?

 

[efernand1]

Hi

Technically, the speakers should be a little more than the amp...provided the sensitivity is more than 88db...if the sensitivity is less than 85db then better to go for an amp which is more powerful than the speakers as the speakers will require more power to drive...

Again...all also depends on how loud will you drive the system...how big is your listening area....for this reason..take your time, carry your music and go audition the many systems and combinations available thru various dealers in Bengaluru.

All the best

 

[raghupb]

has to be a mistake on the website. 10% THD is t-amp domain.

And thanks for the help, so I am supposed to Match spekers to amps or vice versa?

Well, I look at it this way.
Speakers are the direct interface between content and your ears. Let's assume you have high quality content (CD/LP/Lossless digital).
A good set of speakers with decent enough electronics will complete the chain nicely.
The function of the chain (source/DAC/pre/power) should be to faithfully pass the signal from point A to point B with out adding any noise or extra 'coloration'.
Also, speakers tend to stay with you longer than any other component.

So if you like the sound of a particular set of speakers, it would make sense to acquire them and then go amp shopping with your speakers in hand.
In fact you can use your current t-amp to break in the speakers (if you believe in break in concept) or just get used to its sound for a couple of months to learn its nuances.

Looking at specs one more time:
Yamaha
85 Wpc output at 8 ohm; power consumption 140W; math does not add up even if they are using super efficient Class-D amplification. Power consumption cannot be less than total continuous output
Marantz
40/55 Wpc output at 8/4 ohm; power consumption 110W. Power consumption numbers make sense w.r.t total continuous output.
Emotiva X-A100
50/80 Wpc output at 8/4 ohm; could not get power consumption numbers

I have a soft spot for direct sales companies like Emotiva, since they offer great VFM. I have products from 2 other direct sales companies (Outlaw and Schiit).
Also have confidence in Marantz, since I have 2 Marantz products at home (IA and AVR)
Have not heard Yamaha amps for a while now; respectable company with good products. R-S 201 is feature rich but power specs are confusing.
If you have heard the unit and feel it is capable at the price point, no arguments.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[akstorm]

Well, I look at it this way.
Speakers are the direct interface between content and your ears. Let's assume you have high quality content (CD/LP/Lossless digital).
A good set of speakers with decent enough electronics will complete the chain nicely.
The function of the chain (source/DAC/pre/power) should be to faithfully pass the signal from point A to point B with out adding any noise or extra 'coloration'.
Also, speakers tend to stay with you longer than any other component.

So if you like the sound of a particular set of speakers, it would make sense to acquire them and then go amp shopping with your speakers in hand.
In fact you can use your current t-amp to break in the speakers (if you believe in break in concept) or just get used to its sound for a couple of months to learn its nuances.

Looking at specs one more time:
Yamaha
85 Wpc output at 8 ohm; power consumption 140W; math does not add up even if they are using super efficient Class-D amplification. Power consumption cannot be less than total continuous output
Marantz
40/55 Wpc output at 8/4 ohm; power consumption 110W. Power consumption numbers make sense w.r.t total continuous output.
Emotiva X-A100
50/80 Wpc output at 8/4 ohm; could not get power consumption numbers

I have a soft spot for direct sales companies like Emotiva, since they offer great VFM. I have products from 2 other direct sales companies (Outlaw and Schiit).
Also have confidence in Marantz, since I have 2 Marantz products at home (IA and AVR)
Have not heard Yamaha amps for a while now; respectable company with good products. R-S 201 is feature rich but power specs are confusing.
If you have heard the unit and feel it is capable at the price point, no arguments.

Cheers,
Raghu

Thanks raghu,

That was some writing you did to explain

The Yamaha is not a t/d amp for sure, I have looked inside one, and that humungus transformer is no joke, it's pure and pure class a/b. And I can ask the dealer get me the spec sheet on the actual amp (or carry my wattage meter and blast the amp at full, would be fun), now that u have mentioned it, the numbers are really confusing. Will update regarding this as when I have more info.

Also emotiva is no longer a direct sale company, they have a dealer network, or at least an importer network. But then again very good value for money, the reasons I like it are - more power than the marantz, albeit is only 10w, the only one out of the three which has a torroidal transformer, the space needed is like half or lesser than the other two.

And I don't have a t amp anymore, I bought one when I was in Germany, that came faulty so returned it and I decided to get a reputed amp from a good brand, and being a mechatronics engineer I don't believe in break-in , it's a marketing gimmick, but that's a discussion for another day. (correct me if I am wrong, but this is my personal opinion and understanding from the electro-mechanical pov)


And yeah, my ears are trained enough wrt to music but not trained enough to tell the subtle differences between two amps. Speakers, well those I can differentiate. Specially coming from really neutral headphones, which I own quite a few. I can tell the different ways speakers are tuned, and that's why I want these speakers, for the time I want to enjoy music and not critical listen or mix.

 

[akstorm]

Hi

Technically, the speakers should be a little more than the amp...provided the sensitivity is more than 88db...if the sensitivity is less than 85db then better to go for an amp which is more powerful than the speakers as the speakers will require more power to drive...

Again...all also depends on how loud will you drive the system...how big is your listening area....for this reason..take your time, carry your music and go audition the many systems and combinations available thru various dealers in Bengaluru.

All the best

Both of these are roughly 86db, so pure mathematically, I should never need more than 50w.
86db at 1 w at 1 m
At 32w comes out to be 86+15=101db
At 50w approximately 103db
My listning distance is 2m so let's say 98-100db considering drop over distance, which is plenty loud in my 18.7 cu. m (approx 660 cu feet) room. And all these is not taking into consideration the placement, room etc etc.

Now one thing I don't understand while doing the math is, the warfedale say a peak SPL of 95db, and recommend an amp range of 25-100w. At 100w the output would be much higher than the peak SPL of 95, so will it damage the speaker? Or it just can't go beyond 95db, in any case why would the mafucaturer recommend more power than the speakers need. For the dali, the numbers fit just right (almost)

I know these are just numbers and I should get what sounds the best, which of course I will.
Just that I love numbers so sitting at home I was doing the calculations. Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

 

[buxx]

You have done a lotta a research and already found the 2-3 amps available in the market for your price range.

I would now only suggest a Cambridge Audio audition to close the entire portfolio !

 

[raghupb]

Yep. CA is another company to consider, if you have the time and patience.
Also, if you are open to the idea of pre-owned, you may find some good deals in the 20-25K range.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[spirovious]

Technically it's better to use slightly more powered amp than recommended max power input for speaker.
Say for 100w speakers,120watt amp will be better choice.
It will have good control on speakers.