Mesh Network Or Not?

[terrible]

Its been about two years and I have not been able to completely settle down with the network I have at home. When it was couple of laptops and a few phones, I was free of these woes. But a good internal network need for me has become paramount in the last year or so. Given there's an Audio Visual system that uses it comprehensively, and a Synology NAS, whose usage I am trying to extend. And then, there are the laptops and phones.

Currently, I am served by an MTNL fiber to home 100 mbps that comes through a telephone line into an ARGT-1000 modem. Next to the modem, is the Netgear R8000 router that serves the living room and the bedrooms. The modem and router are in the centre of the house locationally. However, I need to connect my AV system and NAS in the living room through ethernet. To do this, I even wrangled out a second modem from the MTNL fellow, and put that next to the AV system. But every time I put this second modem on, I have to shut the one placed centrally. This slows out the wireless connection in the bedrooms due to the thick walls. Also, it kept the household in perpetual confusion. I let this go.

Next I bought TP-Link AV2000 Powerline Adapters. But these reduced the speed considerably. This could be because of the location of the two adapters. As the connection for the first adapter was coming directly from the main electrical console of the house. This console might be working as a breaker and that can reduce the speeds. In fact, I have these lying new in the box, if anyone needs one with reduced price, they can pm me.

So, all this money spent, I am wringing my head again. A firm conclusion I have come to is, the modem goes next to my AV System as all ethernet needs lie there; NAS, Roon, Netflix, etc. Now I have two options that I can possibly think of:

1) Retain the Netgear R8000 router next to the modem in the living room and bring in a WiFi extender to a central location that'll provide better wireless to the bedrooms and other places. If this is a better option can someone suggest a powerful wi-fi extender? Though a lot of people are of the opinion that this brings down the speed considerably.

2) Go for mesh networking, with things like Orbi, eero, Linksys Velop or Plume. Wondering if anyone has any experience of using any of these. Though Orbi is not exactly mesh, there's an equally divided opinion between this, eero and Velop and it adds to my confusion as to which one would finally solve my issues. Though they suggest mesh for large homes of more than 2500 sq feet, my needs are more due to the walls that are extremely wireless unfriendly. This gets further accentuated when I take my main network hub to the living room.

All suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Hi,

I use Google Wifi with one primary and 2 secondary nodes. There is no speed degradation. Set up is a breeze. However, all nodes need to talk to the primary unit in a star kind of set up... they do not act as repeaters. This means that the primary unit needs to be in some kind of central place in the house, preferably at a height, so that the secondary nodes can connect to it and create a powerful mesh. If the signal to a particular spot is weak, the secondary node will not connect to the primary node.

I do not have experience with other meshes.

Regards

 

[terrible]

Hi,

I use Google Wifi with one primary and 2 secondary nodes. There is no speed degradation. Set up is a breeze. However, all nodes need to talk to the primary unit in a star kind of set up... they do not act as repeaters. This means that the primary unit needs to be in some kind of central place in the house, preferably at a height, so that the secondary nodes can connect to it and create a powerful mesh. If the signal to a particular spot is weak, the secondary node will not connect to the primary node.

I do not have experience with other meshes.

Regards

My primary unit will be in the living room which is not the centre, hence can't have star topology unless Orbi, as they say that the second node is powerful enough and third node is not required and in some places might work detrimentally. That said, nodes talking to nodes and not just the primary unit is preferable in my kind of setup. However, very difficult to come to a conclusion reading up on the interwebs as the preference field is pretty evenly divided.

 

[avgeek]

I have used both Google WiFi and Netgear Orbi.

The Orbi wins hands down for me. Way better coverage and throughput. Also, it's more in line with a regular router usage in terms of interface and granular control in terms of options and tweaking.

Google WiFi OTOH is a plug and play solution, and will equally please everybody, just not too high in the features and functionality department.

The main question that needs to be asked is how much coverage and how much throughput. The Orbi wins in these departments, but costs a bit more.

 

[terrible]

Just an added question, how would speed and feature comparison stand between mesh and the combination of R8000 and wi-fi extender?

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Just an added question, how would speed and feature comparison stand between mesh and the combination of R8000 and wi-fi extender?

Within the mesh, speed is pretty uniform. And there is very good handshake between the nodes.

 

[avgeek]

Just an added question, how would speed and feature comparison stand between mesh and the combination of R8000 and wi-fi extender?

Mesh plays in a different league (especially if you pick one with the satellites having AC 5GHz).

Wireless transfers are just as fast as regular ethernet and even more of a rush when using SSDs (transferring between 2 SSD drives).

 

[terrible]

Mesh plays in a different league (especially if you pick one with the satellites having AC 5GHz).

Wireless transfers are just as fast as regular ethernet and even more of a rush when using SSDs (transferring between 2 SSD drives).

In that case, you mean it'll be between eero and Linksys Velop for me? Are you ruling out Netgear Orbi? Only asking since we delineated between mesh and star topology in this discussion.

 

[sud98]

I think you are over complicating your setup.

While I use a mesh and its nice and it works, I think a simpler and cheaper system can be built which works in almost all scenarios with very low cost with only minor deficiencies.

One question, do you have wired ethernet through your house, if yes, then simply use one modem where the MTNL fibre comes, connect to an N300 wireless router or higher. Connect as many cheaper wifi routers and configure them as wireless access points. The cheaper ones will be as low as 1000 bucks and you can add one per room if you like.

If not, then add wired ethernet as a priority and implement above. IF not possible, then use a really good mesh or atleast start with a AP like Ubiquity which will have really good range. Add more as per budget and layout.

Of the mesh networks, all have pluses and minuses, the biggest minus is the cost, the plus being central control of the network through an app.

Hope this helps.

 

[terrible]

I think you are over complicating your setup.

While I use a mesh and its nice and it works, I think a simpler and cheaper system can be built which works in almost all scenarios with very low cost with only minor deficiencies.

One question, do you have wired ethernet through your house, if yes, then simply use one modem where the MTNL fibre comes, connect to an N300 wireless router or higher. Connect as many cheaper wifi routers and configure them as wireless access points. The cheaper ones will be as low as 1000 bucks and you can add one per room if you like.

If not, then add wired ethernet as a priority and implement above. IF not possible, then use a really good mesh or atleast start with a AP like Ubiquity which will have really good range. Add more as per budget and layout.

Of the mesh networks, all have pluses and minuses, the biggest minus is the cost, the plus being central control of the network through an app.

Hope this helps.

No, my house does not have wired ethernet running through. I would have done what you suggest without batting an eyelid. In fact, I have a NETGEAR D7000 AC1900 VDSL/ADSL modem and router lying new as it was incompatible as a modem with MTNL fiber to home. I could have used this as an AP. And I cannot ethernet the whole house.

So, I seem to be retiring to the fact that I need mesh or star topology. I am still not sure which brand. Hence trying to get opinion of those who have any experience with these. Thank you for yours.

 

[avgeek]

In that case, you mean it'll be between eero and Linksys Velop for me? Are you ruling out Netgear Orbi? Only asking since we delineated between mesh and star topology in this discussion.

Google WiFi, easy to setup and works like a breeze.

Orbi only gets my vote cause of the dedicated backhaul, but not really needed.

Cannot comment on the Eero or the Linksys as no personal experience with them.

But based on the reviews, Orbi is the best, followed by AmpliFi HD (only the HD version, the SD actually is limited to 2.4GHz), and Google WiFi is the most popular for ease of use and is also excellent with regards to coverage and speeds.

 

[sud98]

No, my house does not have wired ethernet running through. I would have done what you suggest without batting an eyelid. In fact, I have a NETGEAR D7000 AC1900 VDSL/ADSL modem and router lying new as it was incompatible as a modem with MTNL fiber to home. I could have used this as an AP. And I cannot ethernet the whole house.

So, I seem to be retiring to the fact that I need mesh or star topology. I am still not sure which brand. Hence trying to get opinion of those who have any experience with these. Thank you for yours.

Why don't you use the most powerful one as the first router and then use the others as extender.

I evaluated the following mesh
Google home, eero and Luma. I picked up Luma as it had the best range and features and was the cheapest. However, it was a struggle to get them to work with pppoe which they officially don't support.

The ubiquity would be the one I would recommend if you can get from us. I found it difficult to place the ubiquity and the Indian model has much lesser features.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

[terrible]

Why don't you use the most powerful one as the first router and then use the others as extender.

I evaluated the following mesh
Google home, eero and Luma. I picked up Luma as it had the best range and features and was the cheapest. However, it was a struggle to get them to work with pppoe which they officially don't support.

The ubiquity would be the one I would recommend if you can get from us. I found it difficult to place the ubiquity and the Indian model has much lesser features.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

I did make D7000 an AP but wirelessly. The speed in the bedrooms were drastically reduced. So gave up on that. Since it was not built to be a wi-fi extender, I was conjecturing that a product purely built for extending might work better.

The WAN page of my ARGT 1000 modem reads:

Interface Description Type Vlan8021p VlanMuxId Igmp NAT Firewall
ppp1.2 pppoe_0_0_1.100 PPPoE 1 100 Disabled Enabled Enabled

Given I am layman to this, I would find setting up eero, velop or Luma with pppoe, quite difficult. I would rather give up the idea. I have no issue spending a bit more money than usual for this, provided I have the proper solution.

Maybe Orbi, if it does not have pppoe issues maybe be the right solution?

 

[avgeek]

Google WiFi sounds like a good fit for you.

These videos should help you make up your mind and probably snag any Thanksgiving deals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBdZWSpq3Kw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXV7sAm2vK0

PS: I did not mean to take anything away from Google WiFi in my previous posts especially with regards to the Orbi. However, my needs are different and require a lot more granular control. I run among other things - an email server, web hosting, multiple NAS, tons of entertainment devices, and as many as 3 different networks at home (1 for work, 1 for home, and 1 for purely 4K streaming).

Go for Google WiFi blindly... it's a steal at $279.

 

[sam9s]

But every time I put this second modem on, I have to shut the one placed centrally. This slows out the wireless connection in the bedrooms due to the thick walls. Also, it kept the household in perpetual confusion. I let this go.

Why would you need to shut down the central modem, correct me if I am wrong, the modem near AV is connected to the central modem in bedroom right (via Ethernet cable). (assuming this modem is also a router).

This would be my ideal setup unless there is no way a physical lan can be brought from living room to AV room.

Next I bought TP-Link AV2000 Powerline Adapters. But these reduced the speed considerably. This could be because of the location of the two adapters. As the connection for the first adapter was coming directly from the main electrical console of the house. This console might be working as a breaker and that can reduce the speeds. In fact, I have these lying new in the box, if anyone needs one with reduced price, they can pm me.

Power line adapetes are no good for indian powerlines, for what ever reasons, I have taken the bite, I would have warned you if I had known you going for the same. Not recommended..

So, all this money spent, I am wringing my head again. A firm conclusion I have come to is, the modem goes next to my AV System as all ethernet needs lie there; NAS, Roon, Netflix, etc. Now I have two options that I can possibly think of:

1) Retain the Netgear R8000 router next to the modem in the living room and bring in a WiFi extender to a central location that'll provide better wireless to the bedrooms and other places. If this is a better option can someone suggest a powerful wi-fi extender? Though a lot of people are of the opinion that this brings down the speed considerably.

2) Go for mesh networking, with things like Orbi, eero, Linksys Velop or Plume. Wondering if anyone has any experience of using any of these. Though Orbi is not exactly mesh, there's an equally divided opinion between this, eero and Velop and it adds to my confusion as to which one would finally solve my issues. Though they suggest mesh for large homes of more than 2500 sq feet, my needs are more due to the walls that are extremely wireless unfriendly. This gets further accentuated when I take my main network hub to the living room.

All suggestions would be appreciated.

Coming to mesh network, I have tried eero, and even though it worked it, it was way to expensive. I preferred a simple yet more powerful (IMHO at least) solution and that was getting 2 Ubiquity AP, now I was not concerned with AC and also was not concerned by LR model (long range) as my house is not that big. I just wanted to have a mesh kinda network, for downstairs and upstairs rooms (HT and one bedroom) Normal wifi n, as for other high bandwidth tasks, I have ethernet cable reaching in every room. Hence I purchased the cheapest Ubiquity AP. Two cost me around 12K. LR will set you back around 16K (set of two), and Wifi AC dual Radio around 18K (set of two). AND I couldn't be happier, Ubiquity ROCKS (except their software control points, that I don't like the way they work, but that's another discussion). I have placed one downstairs and one upstairs with the same SSD and configured them like mesh (they ain't exactly mesh, but performance is top notch) and I don't even notice when am I on floor one or two. The wifi radio shifting is seamless. Yes occasionally (like once in months) one of the APs might lose connectivity, and then regain it again (not sure if that's AP issue or something else) I have not bothered much as its very very rare. But I get full LAN wifi n speed across my house, that is what mattered.

Anyway YMMV so its up to you to decide what to go for. Personally, nothing can beat good old ethernet cable, not even Dual radio wifi AC. Coz its just not the speed but reliability and efficiency, which again IMHO wifi still is not able to provide.

 

[avesbilal]

If you have a router from your ISP and your Netgear is connected to back of your ISP router, then you Netgear router is working in Just AP mode (Access point) hence if you are adding more WiFi routers in your home they should also be in AP mode, if this is not the case then you should correct it.

All the router should be connected using ethernet cable to your ISP router.

I'm surprised that you have such a high-end Netgear router yet facing dead zones in your home, you should check the placement of the router.

Just for you reference I use a Netgear WNDR3400 router which is pretty basic at my house, I get decent signals till 2nd floor, router is placed at ground floor hall, My house is 370+ SQ yards in area, thought I haven't done any signal testing as never faced any such issues. I also has a Synology NAS connected to my router.

As you have multiple WiFi routers with you, it shouldn't be an issue to have a very strong WiFi network, you should be connecting all these routers in star configuration.

Regards
Bilal

 

[terrible]

Google WiFi sounds like a good fit for you.

These videos should help you make up your mind and probably snag any Thanksgiving deals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBdZWSpq3Kw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXV7sAm2vK0

PS: I did not mean to take anything away from Google WiFi in my previous posts especially with regards to the Orbi. However, my needs are different and require a lot more granular control. I run among other things - an email server, web hosting, multiple NAS, tons of entertainment devices, and as many as 3 different networks at home (1 for work, 1 for home, and 1 for purely 4K streaming).

Go for Google WiFi blindly... it's a steal at $279.

Thank you for the videos, they were really helpful. I realised that maybe Google mesh may not work for me. Here, the reason is not coverage but the certain features that I need. First, I prefer to assign band to the various devices, which in this case is done by Google itself. Then, I need to set up static routes for Getflix, as I watch US Netflix and Amazon. Also, on WAN, I assign static internal IPs to the required devices. And something I am still struggling with is port forwarding due to the double NAT situation. I need to get that done too. This video, though, clearly pushes me read in depth about any product I choose, since there are so many variables in my case.

Why would you need to shut down the central modem, correct me if I am wrong, the modem near AV is connected to the central modem in bedroom right (via Ethernet cable). (assuming this modem is also a router).

This would be my ideal setup unless there is no way a physical lan can be brought from living room to AV room.

The central modem only got shut down, when the modem next to the AV System (living room) was switched on. There is no way I can get ethernet wires running across rooms as my wife would just not allow it. So, ethernet is out and hence my way to still get an optimum network. However, to optimise the NAS and the AV system, I have decided to connect them through ethernet, so intend on placing the modem and the first router next to it.

Anyway YMMV so its up to you to decide what to go for. Personally, nothing can beat good old ethernet cable, not even Dual radio wifi AC. Coz its just not the speed but reliability and efficiency, which again IMHO wifi still is not able to provide.

Given ethernet all across is not an option except for getting NAS and AV gear connected through ethernet, I'll have to adopt either a Wi-Fi extender or Mesh network. Since I have, another Netgear D7000 modem/router lying with me, I'll extend the network by getting it in AP mode and locating it centrally for two bedrooms. If I get, speed tests of even 60mbps on this AP connection and am connected smoothly to the network through my MacBook and phone; I'll live with it. If this does not work, I'll go for mesh.

Now, if given, money was not an obstacle, and the features I need, which one would you recommend eero or Ubiquity? I need speed as well as various features R8000 provides.

All the router should be connected using ethernet cable to your ISP router.

I have a modem from MTNL to which the R8000 router is connected with ethernet. If that's what you mean. This Netgear router is not in AP mode.

I'm surprised that you have such a high-end Netgear router yet facing dead zones in your home, you should check the placement of the router.

This probably has to do with the nature of the walls as well as thick wooden doors in the bedroom.

As you have multiple WiFi routers with you, it shouldn't be an issue to have a very strong WiFi network, you should be connecting all these routers in star configuration.

I have a Netgear D7000, which is a VDSL/ADSL modem cum router lying idle. In stirctly router mode, I'll turn this to AP at a central location and see how that works.

Thank you all for working with me on this.

 

[avesbilal]

[QUOUT] I have a modem from MTNL to which the R8000 router is connected with ethernet. If that's what you mean. This Netgear router is not in AP mode.[/QUOUT]

According to me you should only use the MTNL as a router and use your Netgear R8000 as in AP, that is a ideal scenario even when you connect additional routers it should be in AP mode.

What might be happening is you are having two routers (Netgear-->MTNL router--> ISP) you are routing the traffic double times at your house itself and two routers are NATing. Where as if you use R8000 in AP mode, it just extends the Internal network of MTNL router through R8000's WiFi/physical LAN port.

I hope this wrong configuration routers is unintended or you have any other purpose for it?

Regards
Bilal

 

[terrible]

[QUOUT] I have a modem from MTNL to which the R8000 router is connected with ethernet. If that's what you mean. This Netgear router is not in AP mode.[/QUOUT]

According to me you should only use the MTNL as a router and use your Netgear R8000 as in AP, that is a ideal scenario even when you connect additional routers it should be in AP mode.

What might be happening is you are having two routers (Netgear-->MTNL router--> ISP) you are routing the traffic double times at your house itself and two routers are NATing. Where as if you use R8000 in AP mode, it just extends the Internal network of MTNL router through R8000's WiFi/physical LAN port.

I hope this wrong configuration routers is unintended or you have any other purpose for it?

Regards
Bilal

I do not have a router from MTNL. It's just an ARGT 1000 modem for fiber to home connection. To this I have connected the R8000 through ethernet, which further sends connection to all my devices throughout the house.

 

[avesbilal]

I do not have a router from MTNL. It's just an ARGT 1000 modem for fiber to home connection. To this I have connected the R8000 through ethernet, which further sends connection to all my devices throughout the house.

Does ARGT has ethernet port and internal DHCP to assign IP's?
If yes then it is router without WiFi.


Sorry but not much info out there on internet about ARGT 1000, hence wasn't able check the configuration.

Regards
Bilal