Newly assembled PC - help needed on booting from motherboard

[arnprasad]

Hi all,

While I am a tech enthusiast, not a technical person and hence what I am asking may be stupid...but do help me.

I managed to snag cheap components from US including super cheap MOBO+Ryzen 1600 from microcenter. My config is Asrock AB350 pro 4, Ryzen 5 1600, Adata 16GB RGB RAM, Adata x8200 512 GB NVME storage, Deepcool mattrexx 55 desktop case and Deepcool RF120M 5 RGB fans.

While I do have decent theoretical knowledge thanks to internet - I wouldnt touch anything as I am afraid of screwing things up..so had a friend setup my desktop. During the first install, the RGB fans and RGB RAM lighted up properly but we couldnt get anything on the display. I knew that 2 year old motherboards had a bios issue but that was more for last years Ryzen processors. While buying the processor and mobo I checked if I needed to update my bios with an old ryzen processor and was confirmed that there is no need. From my system info i can see that bios version is 5.10 dated oct 2018.

Anyways when we couldnt get anything on the display, we turned to youtube for help and one of the solutions given was to install a graphics card and boot from it. So my friend installed GT750 from my old desktop and managed to boot and install windows and now I am typing from that config only ( as for my knowledge, I didnt even know one can boot from a graphics card)

Now that my system is up and running - do I need to update my bios to the latest and greatest? i could see some videos where they are cautioning about updates unless really needed ( I am not sure if its needed) plus they also caution against updating bios unless one has UPS ( I will get my UPS repaired tomorrow).

The help I need from you is - (a) is it ok to continue booting from graphics card? (b) Given that my bios is decently updated, although not the latest - why cant I boot my system without the graphics card?

Secondly, I ran Cinebench and got a score of 2503 points. Googled to see if it was ok for my processor and others have got 1300!! got me confused again since its not an apples to apples comparison. I will continue to investigate on the net.

And thirdly while the rgb fans are lighting up - its the same color. My set didn't come with any remote controller since its compatible with all the 4 major mobo manufacturers. So I downloaded ASrock polychrome software to change the color and sequence of lighting but the application gives one error after another.will continue investigating this as well. Initial research indicated that there is something in bios during start up I needed to change (mobo controlling RGB) - but since I already have other questions on bios - not trying it for now.

Thanks in advance for all the help!

 

[jigarpatel]

In modern processor you have CPU + GPU.
so if your processor has GPU then you can boot without Dedicated Graphics Card.
However in your processor Ryzen 5 1600, only have CPU.
Since Ryzen 5 1600 does not have GPU, you will require dedicated graphics card.
Check below screenshot from AMD website.
AMD Ryzen 1600x - Note check at the very bottom of the page.

 

[Fantastic]

Don't quite understand what arnprasad is saying.
To connect a monitor you need either a graphics card or a graphics capable mother board with a video socket ( HDMI or other video socket) on the chassis.....as jigarpatel said just now. Actually the video socket is on the motherboard if the MB is video capable by itself. It sticks out of the chassis holes when installed inside. If all this is not super clear to you , better get a knowledgeable person to help you.
Booting is done by the BIOS/CPU on the motherboard . The monitor and video display only displays the end result. You don't boot 'through' the monitor. That doesn't make any sense at all ! The BIOS is setup on starting to adjust various settings that the board can support. Usually it is set to a point that everything will work first shot ! You need to check this on start up to make any changes . Like starting the boot sequence....start with checking the USB port , then DVD drive then hard drive etc or change this sequence ...But if you don't know what you are doing don't mess with it !
Get help ! Don't update the BIOS if the system works fine as it is.
The reason for requiring a UPS while updating the bios is that if the power fails halfway during the update it will corrupt the data and the BIOS will become unusable subsequently. That's something you cannot fix by yourself for sure. So a UPS will ensure an uninterrupted supply in case of a power failure....if the UPS lasts longer than your mains interruption ! Check that . If in doubt then as soon as the UPS starts up due to a mains failure you should opt out of the BIOS update by pressing the cancel button .....hopefully the setup procedure has one such button visible on the screen.
Most often they recommend you download the BIOS update by loading it on to a USB drive or on to a blank CD/DVD disc and then run the upgrade from that. This avoids the problem with Net issues sometimes.

 

[nomad47]

Ryzen processors don't have iGPU in it. So you won't get any display output from the motherboard display ports (HDMI, DP, VGA whatever your motherboard I/O panel has). You will always have to use your Graphics card for display output.

Can you share what error Asrock Polychrome is showing for RGB?

 

[rikhav]

Absolutely correct in above post
Ryzens don't have inbuilt GPU
So you need to spend for a GPU according to your needs
Please check if your PSU makes enough power for GPU

 

[Mayank Shah]

BIOS will have Graphics Settings, such as Internal / External / Auto. Since there is no onboard graphics capability on your CPU, you will definitely need a GPU as others have pointed out. Apparently, the BIOS settings seem to be fine as you were able to see windows on your monitor through an old graphics card. GPU has nothing to do with the boot process as such, but without one, you cannot see anything on the monitor.

If you are happy with the performance of your current GPU for your gaming, video and other needs, continue to use it, if not you will have to get a new GPU.

Afraid, I am not the right person to suggest anything on the RGB issues.

 

[Mayank Shah]

Always better to update the BIOS. UPS is recommended because if there is a power cut (interruption) during the bios update process, the pc could brick. Generally, BIOS update takes a few minutes.

 

[arnprasad]

Thank you all for your replies. I dont physically touch any tech stuff unless i fully understand and even in this case the desktop was assembled by a person who has assembled desktops before - mostly intel though. I was only a distant observer.

I guess my long post was too complicated and maybe didnt make any sense. So let me try again. ( i have edited the original post here since I learnt few things in the last one hour)

(c) Also when the desktop was up and running (booting with graphis card), I tried to control the RGB fans via software since this fans' SKU doesnt have a physical remote controller - the Asrock RGB LED software latest version wouldnt load. So I downloaded the version listed under the motherboard support webpage - while this was the old version - it atleast loaded, but it wouldnt recognize the fans. It showed some RGB LED and when I tried to change - the lights on my RGB Fans went off and the RGB on my RAM turned RED and is static (earlier the RAM LED was changing colors). God knows what i did - now I am not getting any lights from my fans

See the below link..some known issue here as well.

RGB LED Issues

i know i'm a little late but i just got my Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 and after installing the rgbled...

forum.asrock.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/9zoef6

I download the last software from the below list

ASRock > AB350 Pro4

ATX; ASRock Super Alloy; Supports AMD Socket AM4 A-Series APUs (Bristol Ridge) and Ryzen Series CPUs (Summit Ridge & Raven Ridge); Supports DDR4 3200+ (OC) (Ryzen CPU) / 2400 (A-series APU); 2 PCIe 3.0 x16, 4 PCIe 2.0 x1; AMD Quad CrossFireX™; Graphics Output: HDMI, DVI-D, D-Sub; Supports Triple...

www.asrock.com

Maybe I should have bought an Asus motherboard instead as aurasync seems to have the best supported infra for rgb.

 

[arnprasad]

Ryzen processors don't have iGPU in it. So you won't get any display output from the motherboard display ports (HDMI, DP, VGA whatever your motherboard I/O panel has). You will always have to use your Graphics card for display output.

Can you share what error Asrock Polychrome is showing for RGB?

The software I tried using was "PolychromeRGB(v1.0.38)". This is same as Asrock RGB LED software. Not sure why they have two different names. The error message I am getting is "this utility is not for this platform" and " access violation at address 00462001 in module.blah blah" - apparently this is a known issue as under:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ASRock/comments/bg8zjz

 

[swamytk]

On lack of GPU in this Ryzen processor. others have explained a lot. So I would like to recommend not to update your bios until unless you face an issue due to bios. Since you are not techie as claimed by you, don't get into bios update vicious cycle.

 

[arnprasad]

Opened a reddit post also

https://www.reddit.com/r/ASRock/comments/c6m7eo

 

[arnprasad]

On lack of GPU in this Ryzen processor. others have explained a lot. So I would like to recommend not to update your bios until unless you face an issue due to bios. Since you are not techie as claimed by you, don't get into bios update vicious cycle.

Sure..I am not touching the Bios till my tech friend is back tomorrow.

I am slowly learning

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6mwdkw

 

[arnprasad]

Many thanks for all the above posts. I always thought that since a mobo has an HDMI or other video outputs, only a CPU will output a display. Today I learnt that without an integrated or dedicated GPU, there is no video output.

Now just hoping for a solution for my RGB fans

 

[arnprasad]

Absolutely correct in above post
Ryzens don't have inbuilt GPU
So you need to spend for a GPU according to your needs
Please check if your PSU makes enough power for GPU

I have the corsair VS550 - enough to even power a RX 570/580 which I am planning to buy?? My research indicated its enough

 

[Mayank Shah]

Absolutely correct in above post
Ryzens don't have inbuilt GPU
So you need to spend for a GPU according to your needs
Please check if your PSU makes enough power for GPU

Ryzen 3 - 2200G and Ryzen 5 - 2400G come with onboard Radeon Vega 9 and 11 graphics, which blows the Intel onboard graphics out of the water anyday. I think the newer upcoming Ryzens will be a major blow (a much needed one at that) to Intel.

 

[arnprasad]

Ryzen 3 - 2200G and Ryzen 5 - 2400G come with onboard Radeon Vega 9 and 11 graphics, which blows the Intel onboard graphics out of the water anyday. I think the newer upcoming Ryzens will be a major blow (a much needed one at that) to Intel.

benchmarks leaked so far should scare intel

 

[ktks1]

So, apart from your RGB issues, everything else is running smooth now? If you are planning for a processor or GPU change, let me know as I'm staying near your locality and can probably help you with it.

 

[sunilkm]

Ryzen processors don't have iGPU in it. So you won't get any display output from the motherboard display ports (HDMI, DP, VGA whatever your motherboard I/O panel has). You will always have to use your Graphics card for display output.

Can you share what error Asrock Polychrome is showing for RGB?

I am not able to understand and agree this statement about no iGPU and no video out from mother board port. Yes this Ryzen CPU what OP has used do not have built in GPU. Does that mean we can't get a video out from the motherboard VGA port ?
I have assembled a basic PC with AMD Athlon 2 and Gigabyte AM3 MB. Athlon2 do not have any inbuilt GPU. The motherboard VGA out works and using it for few years.

Motherboards will have some onboard graphics and we should be able to connect a monitor to VGA port without dedicated graphics card.

This is from the spec of Gigabyte AM4 B450 Motherboard.

B450M DS3H (rev. 1.x) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE India

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...

www.gigabyte.com

Onboard Graphics
Integrated Graphics Processor:

1. 1 x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200@60 Hz
   * The DVI-D port does not support D-Sub connection by adapter.
2. 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2160@60 Hz(Note)
   * Support for HDMI 2.0 version and HDCP 2.2.(Note)

 

[nomad47]

I am not able to understand and agree this statement about no iGPU and no video out from mother board port. Yes this Ryzen CPU what OP has used do not have built in GPU. Does that mean we can't get a video out from the motherboard VGA port ?
I have assembled a basic PC with AMD Athlon 2 and Gigabyte AM3 MB. Athlon2 do not have any inbuilt GPU. The motherboard VGA out works and using it for few years.

Motherboards will have some onboard graphics and we should be able to connect a monitor to VGA port without dedicated graphics card.

This is from the spec of Gigabyte AM4 B450 Motherboard.

B450M DS3H (rev. 1.x) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE India

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...

www.gigabyte.com

Onboard Graphics
Integrated Graphics Processor:

1. 1 x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200@60 Hz
   * The DVI-D port does not support D-Sub connection by adapter.
2. 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2160@60 Hz(Note)
   * Support for HDMI 2.0 version and HDCP 2.2.(Note)

In your case of Athlon, you are using an AM3 board, which itself has a GPU in it.
The AM4 boards doesn't have a GPU in it, only a lane to the processor for graphics processing. The actual processing is done by the processor itself with the iGPU. The Ryzen CPUs don't have any graphics processing capabilities, except for the APUs.
The gigabyte specs are misleading. What they means that if you pop in an APU in the board, these are the outputs and max supported resolution. Fault on Gigabyte's part for not mentioning it. Almost every other manufacturer mentions it explicitly.
Hope this clarifies the confusion.

 

[sunilkm]

OK. Thanks for the clarification. So to reinforce my understanding to get the video out from AM4 mother board,
1) Either use Ryzen APU ( Ryzen 3000 series R3 3200g or R53400g). No graphics card needed.
2) Need to add a graphics card with normal Ryzen CPU and take the videout from grahics card port.