Panasonic 50v20d black levels problem.

[rockstar1630]

Got 50V20 for 80K from Gurgaon 5 days back!!! Superb build quality. Am not impressed with the black levels as of now. Haven't calibrated the TV yet, but out of the box black levels are disappointing.
Am using the burn in slides from av forums. Shall I wait for the burn in to get completed before I calibrate?
I've paired it up with my PS3.

 

[allajunaki]

What is wrong, is it too high?
Is the PS3 set correctly, Under Display there is an option to set ouput level to FULL or Limited. Need to set it to FULL. Also, Ensure that you donot have any lights falling on top of the panel, as it can hamper black levels.

Set it to Cinema mode, and see how are the black levels. Panasonics have incredible black levels, but they are quite good in shadow details too. If you are thinking that shadows are black, then well, you picked the wrong TV.

 

[rockstar1630]

Black levels are low. In the darkness, black is dark grey not completely black. PS3 is set at full.

 

[allajunaki]

Again, what picture mode do you use?
There is no TV that goes completely black. v20 panels generally do about 0.01 cd/m^2 black. That means, panel will not disappear into the dark (Even the mighty kuro cannot do it).
Also, did you try cinema/true cinema/thx mode ? (Assuming that you have not altered any values for these modes).

Im not sure if its your panel, settings or your expectations.

Black levels are low. In the darkness, black is dark grey not completely black. PS3 is set at full.

 

[longshanks]

Black levels are low. In the darkness, black is dark grey not completely black. PS3 is set at full.

Guess you are judging by the black bars , if yes then no plasma will display that in deep black. Judge by viewing a content where you have black color displaying the pic , say like men wearing black tuxedo and then see how the black appears.

If you want the black bars to dissimilar then wait for AMOLED TV's to become main stream in 2015.

 

[rockstar1630]

Ok, got the answer. My expectations are then way too high. Wanted the set to disappear in the dark.
That means even high end projectors like Epson 8700 UB also can't match the black levels equivalent to complete darkness? not even kuro?

 

[shredder]

I doubt even CRT will disappear into the dark

 

[indiglo]

Sorry,yes it does, my ex 29"Philips Crt did Completely disappear in the dark( 0[zero] light emission in a pitch dark room)Afaik,i thought & also saw on some photo of v20d in HFV to completely disappear in the dark like my crt,but surprised here & disappointed too that the v20d owner here doesnot find the same!..my samsung 51d550 plasma also doesNOT completely disappear in the dark!

 

[rockstar1630]

I was also under the same impression through HFV that it can disappear in the dark. Disappointed. But again surprised that no other TV can disappear in the dark as of now. Ignorance is bliss?

 

[allajunaki]

Well, sorry dude. Only Device that can really do that are 2 :
Pioneer Kuro, while displaying letterbox content. But you cannot buy this TV anymore.
Samsung AMOLED screens. But the biggest you can buy is 4.5 inches, Samsung Galaxy SII.

But rest assured, apart from these two, what you are getting from V20 is one of the best (actually best) black levels TVs can produce at the moment. We are all waiting for the time when we have "TRUE LED" Tv's (OLED, AMOLED or LED tvs). That will be the time when Plasmas can officially retire

 

[sud98]

But rest assured, apart from these two, what you are getting from V20 is one of the best (actually best) black levels TVs can produce at the moment. We are all waiting for the time when we have "TRUE LED" Tv's (OLED, AMOLED or LED tvs). That will be the time when Plasmas can officially retire

Is this really true, I thought the panasonic v20 sold in India never came with the settings to go really black and for that you needed to purchase the vt20?

So, the blackest black in India should be with the vt20 or the newer vt30 and not the v20's.

Does the new series G14 versus the older G13 panels also make a difference to black levels?

 

[longshanks]

I guess people just need to get over the fact that none of the plasma(including the kuro elite) will disappear in dark while playing wide screen movies , the black bars will be visible , they might be relatively less visible while running black slides on the whole screen.
This also applies to all high end Sony and Philips CRT as well and projectors have no chance of disappearing in dark.

If someone feels they disappear in dark then i guess they need to get their eyes checked.

The new breed of SMALOED does disappear while displaying black or blank screen dark but even that depends upon how the dark the room is.

 

[allajunaki]

The v20 sold in India had infinite black panel as opposed to infinite black pro sold elsewhere. But that had more to do with filters than actual panel. G14 blacks are not as deep as g13, but g14 dies not suffer from floating blacks. There is a issue of floating brightness, but Panasonic has fixed it,or rolling out fixes for rest of the world. Hope Indian units also recieve this fix...

 

[omishra]

Well, sorry dude. Only Device that can really do that are 2 :

There are three - you left out Sony XEL-1 / XEL-2

 

[indiglo]

I guess people just need to get over the fact that none of the plasma(including the kuro elite) will disappear in dark while playing wide screen movies , the black bars will be visible , they might be relatively less visible while running black slides on the whole screen.
This also applies to all high end Sony and Philips CRT as well and projectors have no chance of disappearing in dark.

If someone feels they disappear in dark then i guess they need to get their eyes checked.

The new breed of SMALOED does disappear while displaying black or blank screen dark but even that depends upon how the dark the room is.

^^ that's too much toned up....when i say my crt did disappeared in the dark,it certainly did!...u need NOT hammer it me if my/our eyes r wrong!
& when i say my CRT completely disappeared in the dark in a pitch dark room i mean i simply could NOT figure out where my Tv in the room was (if it was displaying something alltogether Black),if i hadNOT known b4..it's absolutely true,the nearest visual representation are some photos taken by a HFV member of his Panasonic V20d in a completely Dark room,...my Philips CRT tv did the same disappearing act in the Dark room!

See the V20d disappear in the dark here > http://www.hifivision.com/television/12294-panasonic-v20-black-levels-illustrated-3.html#post189617
My Crt Tv did the same thing but my Samsung 51d550 plasma doesNOT!

I mayb ignorant of many facts,but that's my honest experience so far.

 

[allajunaki]

Those are again OLED. Did they actually sell em? I mean the price was too much for average or above average consumer, and screen size was too small to sell it to enthusiasts..
But you are right, Those two should disappear into dark

There are three - you left out Sony XEL-1 / XEL-2

 

[longshanks]

See the V20d disappear in the dark here http://www.hifivision.com/television/television...tml#post189617

This disappearing effect by shooting with a camera can be obtained for any plasma, quite easy actually.Just the right exposure and Shutter speed is needed.

The screen disappearing and the blacks greatly depend upon screen reflection and the ambient light in the room, ideally in a pitch black room any of today's television should be visible while they display black or blank screen since none of the displays black levels are zero or below zero(except for SAMOLED).If you feel that the tv was disappearing then that means the room was dark and not pitch black(zero light leak into the room).

Also what ive noticed is that the darker high end flat-panel tv's are the lesser detailed in picture, also there is black crush(again except for SAMOLED cause no matter how dark it is it displays all the details).

In fact i can even identify my samsung SAMOLED screen in dark, may be i can see better in dark.

BTW i own a 50" V20D and three Samsung plasma's and used to have a kuro and can safely say i have not seen this disappearing act in any of these tv's.

 

[allajunaki]

I thought Pannys resist Black Crush, atleast the neoPDP panels. I have not see any review that says there is black crush, so did higher end Samsung (D8000 and such).
But coming from my older LG panel, the deeper black levels do hide some of the details in pictures into darker reaches of the black. So either you jack up the brightness, or turn down the ambient lighting to see details.

Obviously, I have set modes for Bright - moderate lighting, and a seperate one for dark room viewing (Un-altered "True Cinema" mode).

The screen disappearing and the blacks greatly depend upon screen reflection and the ambient light in the room, ideally in a pitch black room any of today's television should be visible while they display black or blank screen since none of the displays black levels are zero or below zero(except for SAMOLED).If you feel that the tv was disappearing then that means the room was dark and not pitch black(zero light leak into the room).

Also what ive noticed is that the darker high end flat-panel tv's are the lesser detailed in picture, also there is black crush(again except for SAMOLED cause no matter how dark it is it displays all the details).

In fact i can even identify my samsung SAMOLED screen in dark, may be i can see better in dark.

BTW i own a 50" V20D and three Samsung plasma's and used to have a kuro and can safely say i have not seen this disappearing act in any of these tv's.

 

[indiglo]

This disappearing effect by shooting with a camera can be obtained for any plasma, quite easy actually.Just the right exposure and Shutter speed is needed.

The screen disappearing and the blacks greatly depend upon screen reflection and the ambient light in the room, ideally in a pitch black room any of today's television should be visible while they display black or blank screen since none of the displays black levels are zero or below zero(except for SAMOLED).If you feel that the tv was disappearing then that means the room was dark and not pitch black(zero light leak into the room).

Also what ive noticed is that the darker high end flat-panel tv's are the lesser detailed in picture, also there is black crush(again except for SAMOLED cause no matter how dark it is it displays all the details).

In fact i can even identify my samsung SAMOLED screen in dark, may be i can see better in dark.

BTW i own a 50" V20D and three Samsung plasma's and used to have a kuro and can safely say i have not seen this disappearing act in any of these tv's.

if what u say is true,u have videophile eyes or as u urself say,..mayb u c better in the dark!
..i stick by what i say...coz i have repeatedly experienced the disappearing of my tv into complete darkness of my room,while watching tv at dead end of night when not even a single light in my house was lit & the doors & windows closed & draped tight,other than a few led that were lit up with the tv,mediaplayer,sound system & the wall power source!..i could completely vouch that black levels on my ex-29"philips crt were indeed superb,neraly perfect,if ever it can be achieved...as my tv disappearance in the dark always made me happy!There is No Objective claims for this by any measuring instrument or camera, but my authentic claim as experienced by me with my very own eyes, ....the same eyes which found a LOT of trouble with a samsung 40"lc black level & ultimately had it returned & whichstill doesNOT find the same disappearing of the tv with my current samsung plasma! i mayb having just normal eyes,but that's what i honestly found out from the tv's!

 

[longshanks]

I thought Pannys resist Black Crush, atleast the neoPDP panels.

Black crush is something which happens due to bad calibration and not because of a particular panel.

Also in the service menu level there are many settings that make the panels look really dark or make black appear really black, this can also cause black crush.

which still does Not find the same disappearing of the tv with my current samsung plasma!

Samsung plasma are set to be bright in the panel level settings itself so it like more of view in ambient light kind of TV, you can play with the service menu to get a better black level like what you get in Panasonic but that will compromise details in dark.Overall you cant have all in same tv, this is true for the all the current breed of flat panel televisions. When AMOLED goes mainstream into HDTV's then this will change.