PM6002 to PM6003 to PM6004 - The Evolution, and Roksan Kandy 2

Shyamtanu

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I have been trying to do some study on these three amps and trying to figure out what Marantz has really changed in them... one thing is the sound signature to some extent to make it 'different' somehow, but always for the better? It may not or may not be, subjective to what a listener likes. So here is an interesting detail on the test bench facts of these wonderful gears. And also the reasoning why they sound 'lively/musical' etc as compared to clinical/neutral amps.

First the old PM6002 -

Power rating (1% THD + N, 1 kHz) [W]?? 1 Pair 2 Pair
8 ? 55 50
4 ? 90 73

Sensitivity (for maximum power) [V] 0.21
Signal / noise ratio [dB] 90
Growth [dB] 106
THD + N (1 W, 8 ??? 1 kHz) [%] 0.061
Attenuation coefficient (for the 4 ?) 59

Marantz factory specification, speaking about 45 watts into 8 ohms and 60 watts for 4 ohms, the amplifier provides 55 watts into 8 ohms (2x50 loaded in the two channels), and a big jump takes place at 4 ohms -90 watts and 2x73 in one of two channels. Very little is divided PM6002 from the standard 0.2 V sensitivity, noise level of 90 dB is good, and the dynamics of 106 dB. Declines on the edge of the band are moderate-at 10 Hz only about 0.2 dB at 100 kHz approximately -2 dB.
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Now PM6003 -

Power rating (1% THD + N, 1 kHz) 1 Pair 2 Pair
8 ? 52 47
4 ? 81 70

Sensitivity (for maximum power) [V] 0.22
Signal / noise ratio [dB] 92
Growth [dB] 108
THD + N (1 W, 8 ??? 1 kHz) [%] 0.01
Attenuation coefficient (for the 4 ?? 56

52 W into 8 ohms and 81 W at 4 ohms load one channel translates into close company specification 2 x 47 W (8 ohms) and 2 x 70 W (4 ohm) in dual channel. All you need is the standard voltage 0.22 V.
The device is doing excellently in terms of the noise level, the result is worth -92 dB even with good power amplifier and integrated amplifier category is something special. So there was no problem of obtaining good growth, despite low power, it reached 108 dB.
Regardless of the Direct activation, the frequency response for the two impedances are slightly undulating, but in the range of 10 Hz to 100 kHz are located in the border easily -1 dB.
The measurement of distortion for all the harmonics are well below -90 dB. The amplifier can cope very well with distortion throughout the useful power output THD + N is less than 0.1% to the lowest levels already in the area prior to clipping distortion even reach values lower than 0.01%.

Finally the new PM6004 -

Power rating (1% THD + N, 1 kHz) 1 Pair 2 Pair
8 ? 61 60
4 ? 92 84

Sensitivity (for maximum power) [V] 0.22
Signal / noise ratio [dB] 84
Growth [dB] 102
THD + N (1 W, 8 ??? 1 kHz) [%] 0.01
Attenuation coefficient (for the 4 ??) 52

Power reaching 2 x 60 watts into 8 ohms, which does not grow as yeast at 4-ohm load, but with the efficiency of standard columns will not be drastically limited.
Sensitivity is almost standard 0.22 V. The noise level is reduced very low (-84 dB), which at moderate power can not fly very high growth rate, but still managed to cross the line of decency for which can be 100 dB . Strand transfer is on the edge of only -0.2 dB drop. Interestingly, at the same time gently undulates, although the measurement done Direct-enabled system, fluctuations do not exceed + / - 0.1 dB, the whole thing is treated more as a curiosity, not a problem. Marantz has passed with flying colors on the spectrum distortion test although you can see some lower order harmonics, but all below or close to the -90 dB.
Despite the relatively high noise, mileage THD + N is positive, and the level of less than 0.1% manage to get even at less than 1 watt power into 8 ohms, and slightly exceeds this value for 4 ohms.

Now a completely different Beast, Roksan Kandy 2 look at similar figures

Power rating (1% THD + N, 1 kHz) [W] 1 Pair 2 Pair
8 ? 132 129
4 ? 225 200

Sensitivity (for maximum power) [V] 0.45
Signal / noise ratio [dB] 82
Growth [dB] 103
THD + N (1 W, 8 ??? 1 kHz) [%] 0.01
Attenuation coefficient (for the 4 ?? 71

Amp input sensitivity is slightly lower than the typical, but 0.45 V makes at most the volume knob a bit further. The amplifier has a powerful output power into 8 ohms, which dates back to 132 W, and at 4 ohms at 225 W. The classic analog terminals performing well - as well as power supply that can provide sufficient amounts of power to produce 2 x 129 and 2 x 200 W, exceeding even immodest, it would seem, manufacturer's declarations (2 x125 W and 2 x 190 W). Delight over the level of noise is gone (-82 dB), and the dynamics of why, despite the high power, it is not thrilling (-103 dB)

Enough of data, now the analysis on my part - For those who do not understand this term - "attenuation coefficient" measures the total loss of narrow-beam intensity, including scattering as well. For a stereo amp, this will mean signal strength in a way or the tendency to get scattered in the medium, the lower is the value the better it is.

Marantz has made these amplifiers highly efficient in terms of signal to noise ratio, given the 0.21 volts, and above 90 db till PM6003. You can see a drop of sensitivity in 6004 (may be price cut) but a higher output watt but I would rather like the amps with high growth (means dynamic headroom) and good clean watts. The supposedly higher power does not result in good sound always, Roksan is a classic example of that. SNR of 82 db and dynamic peak of 103 will mean it is bound to sound laid back, and you will have to crank up the knob to get what it has.

Marantz, with their Sanken power transistors fitted on the big heat sink and over sized (10000 microfarad, 63 volts and rated at 85 degree centigrade ELNA capacitors) will perform much better in real life, and it does as I have heard both with same set of speakers.

Refinement of sound (smoothness) is more of a pre amp story (hence higher end amps like 7004 onwards) depending on the overall sound signature, emphasis on frequency bands, signal strength for all frequencies and it is where bit cost cutting happens I guess. However that said, Harmonics and dynamics is where Marantz shows its power. The ability to stay on a note till completely decays and still do judgement to other instruments with great speed is a unique capability of their amps. Some others like Cambridge Audio tend to sound neutral/dry because they take those subtle overtones out of equations. Hence people would enjoy Jazz kind of usic on those amps as they do not have speedy harmonics and the music is laid back itself. Tubes are even better there due to their smoothness, but they do so with a rounded off treble IMHO. What would be your take guys on this analysis?
 
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not sure about cambridge audio for jazz but tubes yeah all the way up for jazz with nice mids provided the tubes aint chinese made!
 
. Some others like Cambridge Audio tend to sound neutral/dry because they take those subtle overtones out of equations. Hence people would enjoy Jazz kind of usic on those amps as they do not have speedy harmonics and the music is laid back itself. Tubes are even better there due to their smoothness, but they do so with a rounded off treble IMHO. What would be your take guys on this analysis?

It is true the cambridge audio sound (atleast on my 840a which was their highest model till a year or two ago) is softer than others.

Though I would like to add something to that. Paired with a highly revealing speaker like my d830's. That laid back sound goes straight out the window. The ability to stay on a note till completely decays and still do judgement to other instruments is 100% present with a well matched speaker.

Details come out vividly like one would get with a warmer sounding speaker paired to a sound signature like marantz.

So yes, I agree with your analysis. One needs to be aware of what kind of synergy one is putting together, otherwise it could turn out to be a very bad investment.
 
@mpw-yes sir :p but now I have ordered some nos tubes from russia!tube rolling-that's the best thing about tube amps!flip tubes and sound signature changes!they are anyway neat enough with my b&w's
 

Shyamtanu a bit off track question. But your the best person to answer this as you seem to know know a lot about the Marantz sound signature.

How will MARANTZ PM6100SA & SM6100SA combo sound? Will it have the sparkle and shimmering highs? How will wind and string instruments sound?

Thank you for your time
 
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Shyamtanu a bit off track question. But your the best person to answer this as you seem to know know a lot about the Marantz sound signature.

How will MARANTZ PM6100SA & SM6100SA combo sound? Will it have the sparkle and shimmering highs? How will wind and string instruments sound?

Thank you for your time

Wow.. how did you get those models :-), I have not had the pleasure of auditioning them ever, so it is not fair to comment on how they will perform to be honest. As far as sound signature is concerned, harmonics are a major strength of Marantz, because the instruments that are present in Jap music (e.g. Kill Bill part 1 scene where the lady is killed), that kind of music has lot of characters hidden in the instrument itself, and they do not play too many things together, so the inherent feel has to be felt by the listener. Similar thing applies to Jazz music as well, but Jap music is not so bass heavy, so you will find some marantz amps seemed to have less bass, but the main focus is on mid range and sweetened high.

What are your speakers? Pairing is more important than the amp itself.
 
Wow.. how did you get those models :-), I have not had the pleasure of auditioning them ever, so it is not fair to comment on how they will perform to be honest. As far as sound signature is concerned, harmonics are a major strength of Marantz, because the instruments that are present in Jap music (e.g. Kill Bill part 1 scene where the lady is killed), that kind of music has lot of characters hidden in the instrument itself, and they do not play too many things together, so the inherent feel has to be felt by the listener. Similar thing applies to Jazz music as well, but Jap music is not so bass heavy, so you will find some marantz amps seemed to have less bass, but the main focus is on mid range and sweetened high.

What are your speakers? Pairing is more important than the amp itself.

I will pair it with the Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary LE. I intend to biamp the speakers with this combo MARANTZ PM6100SA & SM6100SA. ;)
 
Really amazing is not it... is the PM6100SA a ver2? It should be a great sounding and powerful combo, very interesting to see how watts have taken main stage ovr the years as per market dynamics :)... if you compare the specs of these beauties over the years. Someone could do a research
 
@Avidyarthy- Im presently listening to them and my gut feeling about the stage presence and liveliness came true. Marantz is a marriage with the Whaferdale.;)

@Shyamtanu- I think so, it is Ver2. This is a rare Japanese model combo, made especially for biamping. ::rolleyes:

helium
HiFi I -CA 640c V2 + Sansui AU-317 + Vintage B&W DM4 + Pure Silver cables

HiFi II - SB Classic + MARANTZ PM6100SA & SM6100SA + Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary LE + Lyrita IC
 
Hence people would enjoy Jazz kind of usic on those amps as they do not have speedy harmonics and the music is laid back itself.


apologies for going OT, folks, but i'm quite tired of people referring to jazz as 'laid back music'. here's a sample of a typical jazz number.

McCoy Tyner e Bobby Hutcherson - African Village Part 1 - YouTube

like all genres of music, jazz too has it's quieter moments. but if you think 'laid back' is the norm, you've missed the bus entirely.
 
I don't think Jazz is refereed to as literally laid back. The sound is laid back compared to electronic and pop tonality where often there is very fast + harsh tones. Jazz on the other hand can never ever be harsh unless the recording was horrid.
 
apologies for going OT, folks, but i'm quite tired of people referring to jazz as 'laid back music'. here's a sample of a typical jazz number.

McCoy Tyner e Bobby Hutcherson - African Village Part 1 - YouTube

like all genres of music, jazz too has it's quieter moments. but if you think 'laid back' is the norm, you've missed the bus entirely.

Nice! Smooth Jazz, is an amalgamation of instruments where each artists plays ones work; which is rendered in his/her mind and the result is sheer poetry.

helium
HiFi I -CA 640c V2 + Sansui AU-317 + Vintage B&W DM4 + Pure Silver cables
HiFi II - SB Classic + MARANTZ PM6100SA & SM6100SA + Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary LE + Lyrita IC
 
apologies for going OT, folks, but i'm quite tired of people referring to jazz as 'laid back music'. here's a sample of a typical jazz number.
like all genres of music, jazz too has it's quieter moments. but if you think 'laid back' is the norm, you've missed the bus entirely.

What I meant to say was it will not have extreme dynamics of an orchestra, but that does not make it laid back, i find it pretty energetic even if a solo sax was playing along bass guitar and drums (memories from a live street performance by a small group of African people). Have you guys heard this album - Music for Romance - Louis Banks : Credits : AllMusic

My set up just shines with a brilliant sax by Manohari Singh, bass by Carl Peters... sorry I deviated! This album has wonderfully huge sound stage that many top graded albums of today will not provide. It is aligned to Jazz, but not pure Jazz I would say
 
apologies for going OT, folks, but i'm quite tired of people referring to jazz as 'laid back music'. here's a sample of a typical jazz number.

McCoy Tyner e Bobby Hutcherson - African Village Part 1 - YouTube

like all genres of music, jazz too has it's quieter moments. but if you think 'laid back' is the norm, you've missed the bus entirely.

amen to that. perhaps one should listen to Miles Davis LIVE AT THE FILLMORE EAST (MARCH 7, 1970) It's About That Time or Cecil Taylor's It is In the Brewing Luminous a 69 minute piece performed at Fat Tuseday's, NY on Feb 8/9 1980, to realise how far out from laid back jazz could be some times..
 
amen to that. perhaps one should listen to Miles Davis LIVE AT THE FILLMORE EAST (MARCH 7, 1970) It's About That Time or Cecil Taylor's It is In the Brewing Luminous a 69 minute piece performed at Fat Tuseday's, NY on Feb 8/9 1980, to realise how far out from laid back jazz could be some times..

Or a searing 29 min John Coltrane solo maybe?
Cheers
 
Bringing this thread to kind of 'on' topic :) (and that admitting the great discussion we are having), what would you like to say/comment on the change of design from 6002 to 6004? I feel power ruling over dynamics a bit? Because dynamic peak is what really will breath life into music and not just little higher power delivery. I was going to think of selling off PM6003 for more power to drive my 12L2, but after adjusting the tone controls and some minor adjustments, I have realized that I needed to feed the tweeters with bit more extension than the default preamp setting (or source direct). Personally I do not think any system can be 100% transparent to the recording (that is not my goal anyway), in fact, pre amplifier will certainly influence the sound quality/signature of an amp no matter how good it is, so it is only fair to adjust things as may be needed.
 
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