Power Backup Problem for my Home Theater

[sam9s]

Hi All

I have deviced a power back up for my THIS HT but I am not satisfied, need guidance on a totally irritating aspect I am facing....

The electricity cut here in ghz and Noida as well to some extent is gruesome.........I have an estimate cut off of around 8/24 hrs daily, so its like living practically without electricity. Ayway my current inverter was not at all at par to withstand the load this beast had. So I went for 1.5KVA Microtech Home UPS. Seems like end of all problems right......geee not at all.
Three hiccups right out of the box.....

1. The most prominent one, seems like this beast is taking too much of a load.....full charged battrey did not last even 2.5 hrs with LCD and AVR running at full blaze..........., 2.5Hrs??? Barely one comeplete movie....

2. The irritating one, as the name suggests this is a Home UPS and UPS means uninturrpted supply, but this one seems to defy the name......when ever the electricity comes back and UPS switches back to mains, the change over time is more than what it should be. It trips the equipment. This does not happen when electricity goes off and the system comes on to UPS, this only happens when electricity retains back. Is this normal for Home UPS

3. The most irritating one, now I dont get to understand this problem, when ever there is any huge sound effect whiile watching a movie or listining a song and if the volume is notched up to say 50, the AVR trips running on Home Ups. Else in normal scenes its just fine, as soon as some very heavy sound, bang or beat shakes up the woofer the AVR trips and restarts.........this is very irritating while watching some action flick.

Probable DIAGNOSE and Solution::Need suggestions if the probable solutions are advisable


1. for the first issue.......Too much WATTAGE.....
Solution: increase battery from 2 to 4 or get a Genset

2. for the secone issue...........Home UPS is an Offline UPS and hence the delay in change over. This is normal.
Solution: Insert an online UPS between Home UPS and the equipment

3. for the third issue.....No idea what the problem could be, initiall guess is, Home UPS overloaded in terms of WATTAGE or AMPs.

SO for the first solution I am thinking to buy a Genset......This way run the getset for say 2 hours and charge the Home UPS fully and then run the UPS for another 2.5 hours. I would then be covered for around 5.5 Hrs which is decent enough.

For second solution, I had an APC 800VA Smart UPS which is an Online UPS, I have inserted it between the Home UPS and the Equipment, and it does seems to solve the problem. When the Electricity retains back and Home UPS goofs up while switching back, the trip for that micro second is taken care of by my APC UPS and does not let the entire system restart. Once the Home UPS is back to mains the APC also resumes back to mains.

Its the Third problem the most irritating one which is giving me Nightmares, while running on Home UPS, when ever there is a Huge sound track or any action scene that is heavy on woofer and the volume is like close to 50, the AVR trips and restarts, even with the APC UPS inserted in between. Initially I though and confirnmed with an electrician as well, it could be the wattage issue, I am drawing more than what is required,(though the Home UPS is 1.5 KVA, which should be more than sufficient) so what I did was to get an AMP meter and measured exactly how much the setup is drawing....., It did give interesting result. At normal running that is no heavy sound track and volume at around 35-40 the setup was drawing around 2.5-2.8 AMPS which is close to around 750 WATTS.....much much less than 1500W infact half of the reated Home UPS capacity, the momemt I increate the volume on a heavy soundtrack and touch 50 the AMPS increases from 2.5 to 3.3/3.4, which is an almost 1 AMP jump........meaning from 750 to around 1000VA or 1.0KV. Still almost 500VA less than the Home UPS capacity. No way I am overloading the UPS, then why on earth the AVR trips, its very irritating as soon as some action scene comes the AVR just drops and you have a complete blackout in front of you for couple of seconds. You then have to lower the volume to 35-40 to continue else the AVR keeps restarting.........

Any Idea where the problem lies.....where the missing link is, in this entire backup series I have here.......My electrician is also almost completely baffeled by this.......I would anyhow buy a genset for my 1st issue, would that solve the problem, though I doubt???......Need urgent help here.

Regards
Sammy

 

[sam9s]

No body has no suggestions....

 

[mandeep]

Hi All

So I went for 1.5KVA Microtech Home UPS. Seems like end of all problems



3. if the volume is notched up to say 50, the AVR trips running on Home Ups. Else in normal scenes its just fine, as soon as some very heavy sound, bang or beat shakes up the woofer the AVR trips and restarts...

Probable DIAGNOSE and Solution::Need suggestions if the probable solutions are advisable


1. for the first issue.......Too much WATTAGE.....
Solution: increase battery from 2 to 4 or get a Genset

2. for the secone issue...........Home UPS is an Offline UPS and hence the delay in change over. This is normal.
Solution: Insert an online UPS between Home UPS and the equipment

3. for the third issue.....No idea what the problem could be, initiall guess is, Home UPS overloaded in terms of WATTAGE or AMPs.


For second solution, I had an APC 800VA Smart UPS which is an Online UPS,

.........

Any Idea where the problem lies.....where the missing link is, .Need urgent help here

Regards
Sammy

hello dear,

There is no 800 VA smart UPS listed on the APC india website.
APC - Smart-UPS - Product Information.

I think the UPS you are talking about must be a BACK UPS like this one here

For example an APC UPS Model:-APC Back-UPS RS 800 VA has a maximun power rating support of only 540 Watts (PLZ check on the APC website), so i think the tripping problem lies here. Since you have not mentioned which equipment you are using with APC UPS and your equipment power consumption rating , as far i can guess is that 540 Watts is just a fraction of power, your system wants/needs much more than that.

My rough calculation:-

AV AMP:-has a power rating/consumption roughly between 250w to 500w, depending upon the model/company etc.
DVD Playerower consumption range 10 to 18 w roughly,depending upon the model/company
LCD TV :- power consution range 70w to 200 w roughly,depending upon the model/company etc.
subwoofer:- power consumption range 100w to 250 W roughly, depending upon the model/company etc.

SO, total steady power requirement (taking lower range 250+10+70+100)= 430 watts or 1050 VA approx. & higher range (500+18+200+250)
=968 watts or 1400VA approx.

As has been said many times here on this forum to get UPS/INVERTER/Stabliser that have a power rating roughly 2 to 3 times the total power requirement for proper functioning/Inrush power requirement/Dynamic power requirement/to meet future power requirements.

i.e 2 x 1050=2 KVA approx.

3 x 1400= 4 KVA approx.

Your Microtek UPS has a rating of 1.5 KVA= 1500VA= 1050 WATTS approx.

what you may require is a UPS with a rating of at least 2KVA to 4KVA, depending on the total power consumption of your actual equipment you have.(As you have not provided power consumption values of your equipment)


The major problem with most HOME UPS available in the market is that they don't have an in built automatic voltage regulation, which require extra circuits and cost's also the switch transfer time in millisec is very poor. So whenever there is a sudden change/withdrawal of current/power there are problems.



With your current setup, try these:-

(1)Connect only your AV AMP with APC UPS , and put the others directly on Micotek UPS using extension board with multiple sockets, then see what happens when you push the volume up, by switching the electricity supply ON and off.

2)IF the solution in above fails then, borrow a simple/servo voltage stabiliser.put it first before Mirotek UPS(if that fails use it after the Microtek UPS) and see what happens when you push the volume up, by switching the electricity supply ON and off.

IF EVERYTHING FAILS, then i think its time to go for (as below):-

IF possible go for a 3-4 KVA TRUE SINEWAVE HOME UPS + 3-4 KVA, GOOD quality SERVO VOLTAGE STABILISER combination

​

OR

Buy a 3-4 KVA , TRUE SINEWAVE ONLINE UPS from APC or LIEBERT, with preferably built-in power regulator and isolation transformer and external batteries for extended power backup times.


I personally prefer Liebert for Online UPS systems( as i am currently using 1 KVA ,Model:GXT-MT for my projector, and very happy) , as they mainly deal with ONLINE UPS ONLY & for LINE INTERACTIVE i would prefer APC, as they mainly deal with these and have a hold in the market(As in my experience in the chandigarh/north india market).


APC SMART UPS is a LINE INTERACTIVE UPS, its not an ONLINE UPS and does have a switch tranfer time (though very less).

An online UPS is much better, but if you are on tight budget one can also go for LINE Interactive UPS(but only after testing/trail-run with your own equipment)


I think there is no need to buy a genset, due to noise issues etc.

REGARDS

*****Note:- used a power factor of ) 0.7 in above calculations, kW= kVA x pf.****

 

[sam9s]

Hi

Thanks for a very details reply, and sorry that I responded late. First the UPS I have is THIS its not 800 I am sorry its 750VA smart UPS.

The reason I did not give indivisual power output was because I had calculated the total AMP the equipment was drawing through AMP meter ,which gives an pretty accurate idea. The max AMP the meter read at full load and on heavy scene was 3.5 AMP which is equal to

WATT=VOLTxAMP = 220x3.5= 770 so the total power the equipment was drawing is 770 or MAX 800. Though this not as srtight forward but you get a fair bit idea by this.

Anyway let me still provide the indivisual power ratings...

6200 : 470 W
LCD : 300W MAX

Also I forgot to tell when I calculated the above rating I was also runnig my rig with a heavy game (SHIFT) running on it, so the AVR was fully loaded. Normally I would not be running my PC along with a movie, but just to calculate MAX the AVR draws I did that.

Ok Now I am not sure how you calculated the relation "Microtek UPS has a rating of 1.5 KVA= 1500VA= 1050 WATTS approx" I always though 1VA=1WATT so if its 1500VA its 1500WATT.

Anyway I did the experiment you told me and I was amazed by the result....
I connected just my AVR running a movie to APC UPS and connected the rest (LCD and WD) player on Home UPS. I checked in two ways.

1. APC UPS disconnected from mains and running on Battery.

RESULT : Amazingly AVR DID NOT trip at all, in any scene I ran, my APC UPS on battery was able to take full load of the AVR.

2. APC UPS connect to mains (i.e on Home UPS)

RESULT : AVR Trips, so its pretty evident that Home UPS is the culprit. As Home UPS is also taking the load of LCD.

I am gonna try changing the Microtech Home UPS to a 2.2 KVA model and see if that helps......

Also ordered a genset which would be delivered in a couples of days lets see, if that helps solving the problem.......