Pro Audio kits in various budgets for home consumers

[k-pad]

Hi all,
There was a lovely point made in one of the threads - pro audio gear works really well in home environment, but it doesn't work for dealers to push them.

Now, among common questions, if i keep outliers out, the rooms we are talking about are from 20x12 to 12x10, and in some cases 10x7.

So, what are some good pro audio speakers for home users who want to look beyond the usual suspects?

In the:
1L budget:
2L budget:
5L budget:
7-8L budget:
10L budget:
12L budget:
15L budget:
20L budget:

And anything more please specify cost.

 

[imagineer]

So, what are some good pro audio speakers for home users who want to look beyond the usual suspects?

Sorry, if I'm turning the question in a debate.

This post kind of makes sense:

pro speakers for hifi Vs hifi speakers ? ? Endless debate

which do you prefer ? For music or movie usage ??? Speaker design is very complex, both type can sound really good . These are popular one of cheaper models Behringer Eurolive B215XL 1000W 15 inch Passive Speaker I have no preferences but I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions . Some hifi...

www.avsforum.com

It would be good to know if someone has done A/B testing of Pro vs HiFi speakers in home setup, before going this path.

 

[k-pad]

Sorry, if I'm turning the question in a debate.

This post kind of makes sense:

pro speakers for hifi Vs hifi speakers ? ? Endless debate

which do you prefer ? For music or movie usage ??? Speaker design is very complex, both type can sound really good . These are popular one of cheaper models Behringer Eurolive B215XL 1000W 15 inch Passive Speaker I have no preferences but I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions . Some hifi...

www.avsforum.com

It would be good to know if someone has done A/B testing of Pro vs HiFi speakers in home setup, before going this path.

Love the opening line in that link.

 

[k_vijay12]

Not to offend any one here ....

Excess obsession ends up as placebo effect. Its all theory which is same for everyone of us. Practically, no 2 ppl hear same. Avg human cannot hear frequencies below 30 hz. But many ppl here are obsessed with the low end bass that goes below 20hz, i seriously doubt its a (feel good) placebo effect.

The pro vs hifi - will end up a dead end topic mostly - each has its specific targeted user base. I personally dont think its going to add any value of comparing pro vs regular hi-fi. Its as simple as comparing a hi end luxury car such as a Merc / BMW vs a F1 car. Ppl find the thrill of F1 car speed. But it cant be run on city roads!

 

[RajithKumar]

IMO both have its own merits and demerits generaly.
The following are my observations.
I have heard pro speakers in an home environment. It's give you as loud as you want ( easily way too louder than hifi speakers) coz it's been designed to fill large spaces with higher SPL. The bass may not dig very deep but definitely satisfy many enthusiastic needs due to it tremendous output. Customisation can be made easily if it's an active speakers through external dsp.
The main demerits I felt is refinement , precision and imaging. Some may not feel comfortable for long sessions due to its high SPL.

In case of Hifi speakers ,many knows the imaging , refinement and precision will be very good.Longer sessions doesn't feel uncomfortable for many.
Demerits : Many speakers are not capable of reference level playback .Getting rightly calibrated especially the bass is difficult.

 

[ajuvignesh]

Not to offend any one here ....

Excess obsession ends up as placebo effect. Its all theory which is same for everyone of us. Practically, no 2 ppl hear same. Avg human cannot hear frequencies below 30 hz. But many ppl here are obsessed with the low end bass that goes below 20hz, i seriously doubt its a (feel good) placebo effect

Theoretically, humans can hear up to 20 hz. And below it, it can still be felt.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Theoretically, humans can hear up to 20 hz. And below it, it can still be felt.

Indeed. It'd be interesting to see the reactions of folks who classify the effects of sub 20 Hz as placebo when they hear a subwoofer setup capable of digging that deep at meaningful levels.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

So, what are some good pro audio speakers for home users who want to look beyond the usual suspects?

I don't know if they still have an Indian distributor, but Power Sound Audio's (PSA) speakers would qualify. Founded and run by Tom Vodhanel (the V in SVS), who lives and breathes PSA.

 

[k_vijay12]

Theoretically, humans can hear up to 20 hz. And below it, it can still be felt.

Folks need to get an audiogram first. I have met many audiologists who work with ppl with hearing challenges. Including myself. They said 30 hz itself is not an easy thing to catch by many people. So when people claim the low end bass/ going low, i wd take it with pinch of salt. There is significant placebo/ feel good effect. Without showing brand names with similar specs subs... If ppl audition, on average with sample size atleast 30+, responses should be near equal for both. But if u disclose brand name / high price good, peoples mind wd have affinity towards the premium brand or higher price point product.

Most ppl won't find a Polk brand product to outperforms a big brand such as B&W. We all have certain biases the way we perceive certain products.

 

[Nitin K]

Apologies K-pad, didn't want to digress from the thread. But below 20 hz, humans may not hear but feel vibrations if heard from a good capable subwoofer without going into brands. It certainly isn't a placebo effect.

 

[k_vijay12]

Apologies K-pad, didn't want to digress from the thread. But below 20 hz, humans may not hear but feel vibrations if heard from a good capable subwoofer without going into brands. It certainly isn't a placebo effect.

I think feeling body vibrations are more due to SPL than low end bass... Many powerful subs up to 30 hz also do give body vibrations...i do feel these vibrations even in my Polk sub where lowest in frequency range is 32 hz.

If you are referring to cone vibrations... It varies from person to person.

 

[prateekatasniya]

I think feeling body vibrations are more due to SPL than low end bass... Many powerful subs up to 30 hz also do give body vibrations...i do feel these vibrations even in my Polk sub where lowest in frequency range is 32 hz.

If you are referring to cone vibrations... It varies from person to person.

Bass is both felt and heard..

 

[Vineethkumar01]

Since the original post was about pro-audio based kits, here are a few that I know of:
1) http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC.htm
2) http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-15.htm
3) Have a look here in general: https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/
specifically: https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/archive.html (search for Calpamos): Youtube video links of his build:

(also mezze calpamos is a smaller version with capable drivers videos can be found here:

)
4) http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2010/11/s15-econowave-dsp.html (More projects on this site)
There are maybe more if one puts an effort to find some. There are many projects on diyaudio forum

All this discussion about whether hifi-based setup is better or pro-based setup is better, reading forums and poring over graphs is pointless after some point (after one understands the basics of what is required in one's home/what kind of sound one prefers/what kind of objective parameters satisfy one's needs). Graphs have a very important role in aiding the design philosophy and process but there is no substitute for hearing and 'feeling' a speaker on one's own to see if one likes it or not (unfortunately that is where we in India lack opportunities).
Technically, the controlled dispersion type pro speakers will have trade offs between soundstage and imaging in smaller areas like rooms based on the directivity control techniques employed. Advantage is less boundary induced artifacts. Trade off is soundstage dimensions. Similarly there will be SPL vs low end extension trade offs, size vs sound quality trade offs etc.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hi all,
There was a lovely point made in one of the threads - pro audio gear works really well in home environment, but it doesn't work for dealers to push them.

Now, among common questions, if i keep outliers out, the rooms we are talking about are from 20x12 to 12x10, and in some cases 10x7.

So, what are some good pro audio speakers for home users who want to look beyond the usual suspects?

In the:
1L budget:
2L budget:
5L budget:
7-8L budget:
10L budget:
12L budget:
15L budget:
20L budget:

And anything more please specify cost.

I want to clarify are you talking about DIY kits or fully assembled finished products?

My views are simple on this, rather than list multiple speakers and manufacturers I would suggest buying the biggest and loudest speaker you can fit/afford from a manufacturer that is reputed to sound good then adjust with DSP to taste keeping coverage in mind. This automatically excludes Harman and many of the budget portable segment speakers, while these may be okay you don't get the best you can but for a limited budget it would be okay. For example if someone had a limited budget I would recommend Behringer and Mackie, but as your budget and allowable size grows these options are not ideal. There are many companies making pro speakers, a lot of them Chinese, so even I haven't heard of all of them but the major players are fewer in number. There are even a good number of Indian companies selling pro speakers, often rebranded Chinese speakers. If you investigate you will find many of these various brands end up coming from few factories in China rather than multiple manufacturing units.

As a starting point I'd recommend Pulz from India if interested in Indian pro speakers, but only their cinema line. I imagine they should be reasonably priced but don't quote me on that. As I posted elsewhere my number one choices in foreign brands for reasonable cost and decent quality would be QSC and EV. QSC also makes cinema speakers which are reputed to be good. In general Cinema speakers can offer reasonably good sound,SPL capabilities and coverage for a reasonable price. In my view most consumers would be satisfied with the options I have discussed but if they wish to climb higher they can always research it.

 

[RajithKumar]

I think feeling body vibrations are more due to SPL than low end bass... Many powerful subs up to 30 hz also do give body vibrations...i do feel these vibrations even in my Polk sub where lowest in frequency range is 32 hz.

If you are referring to cone vibrations... It varies from person to person.

When the body / chairs/ couch resonates .The frequency depends upon the material. So when it happens you may feel the vibration. Yes 30hz itself more than enough for vibration to feel.

 

[Enkay78]

Hi all,
There was a lovely point made in one of the threads - pro audio gear works really well in home environment, but it doesn't work for dealers to push them.

Now, among common questions, if i keep outliers out, the rooms we are talking about are from 20x12 to 12x10, and in some cases 10x7.

So, what are some good pro audio speakers for home users who want to look beyond the usual suspects?

In the:
1L budget:
2L budget:
5L budget:
7-8L budget:
10L budget:
12L budget:
15L budget:
20L budget:

And anything more please specify cost.

I feel <1 lakh :
Kali Audio LP6 2nd edition is quite fair

Kali audio IN 8 is also fair in < 2 L

The Genelecs and Neumann will probably fall in the range of 5-20 lakhs depending on either a stereo setup or HT setup.

The JBL synthesis line is also fair. IMO.

As far as I can observe, aesthetics are not a plus point in pro-audio, but performance is superlative.

 

[ajuvignesh]

Folks need to get an audiogram first. I have met many audiologists who work with ppl with hearing challenges. Including myself. They said 30 hz itself is not an easy thing to catch by many people. So when people claim the low end bass/ going low, i wd take it with pinch of salt. There is significant placebo/ feel good effect. Without showing brand names with similar specs subs... If ppl audition, on average with sample size atleast 30+, responses should be near equal for both. But if u disclose brand name / high price good, peoples mind wd have affinity towards the premium brand or higher price point product.

Most ppl won't find a Polk brand product to outperforms a big brand such as B&W. We all have certain biases the way we perceive certain products.

When bass can be felt at 80 Hz and more strongly below it, why do you think bass cannot be felt below 20 Hz?

 

[ajuvignesh]

I think feeling body vibrations are more due to SPL than low end bass... Many powerful subs up to 30 hz also do give body vibrations...i do feel these vibrations even in my Polk sub where lowest in frequency range is 32 hz.

If you are referring to cone vibrations... It varies from person to person.

If SPL is the one causes body vibrations, can you make my body vibrate with a few tweeters with high SPL alone?

 

[amrutmhatre90]

My audio buddy from opposite building runs 2 Bose Profesional speakers as subwoofers for Hometheatre, uses a power amplifier and its DSP to run only below 80hz.

I have heard this setup alot, these are very very powerful and superb punch and slam around 80hz. But they don't dig deep nor provide smooth bass which actual subwoofers give.

 

[k_vijay12]

When bass can be felt at 80 Hz and more strongly below it, why do you think bass cannot be felt below 20 Hz?

I am not sure how "feeling below 20hz" is going to give people any difference in their auditory sense. I do ofcourse feel something with vibrations, but there is no sonic feel in that. Our mind works little complex than we assume , if our eyes see some vibrations which we cant hear , we wishfully think we heard some thing very low....