Roon vs Lumin app SQ: My exchange with Lumin's Peter Lie

[JaideepGiridhar]

I've tried very hard to like Roon's SQ in the past (I love their UX but not the sound) but gave up after several attempts. I tried one more time last week, and posted my impressions on the Roon Community discussion board. Peter Lie, Lumin's firmware lead for network players responded, suggesting I might not have maximised Roon's capabilities to get the most out of the two Lumin streamers I have. I did this, and after A/B testing with Roon and Lumin, came to the conclusion that Lumin easily trumps Roon. Here's my exchange with Peter:

 

[Phew]

What are you using as Roon core?

 

[muralimmreddy]

I guess we all hear differently (or can't hear the nuanced differences) or have biases

I moved on from lumin X1, but i preferred roon from roon rock clone over lumin direct streaming

 

[reignofchaos]

What machine are you running roon on?

 

[JaideepGiridhar]

What machine are you running roon on?

A dedicated, headless MacMini M2.

 

[Phew]

A dedicated, headless MacMini M2.

One of the worst options to choose from. Laptop, mac mini, intel nuc(the cheap plastic chassis with the fan inside) will get you started but thats about it, as the noise floor with these devices is too high. Core's like Roon nucleus titan, SA rhein, grimm Mu1 etc etc are where roon really starts to come through. Getting roon to play well is not as straightforward as grabbing a trial, installing roon server and boom it sounds crap or excellent. Its takes a lot more than what meets the eye to get roon to work at its best and If someone does not want to fall into that pit, native apps from respective companies do a good enough job.

 

[JaideepGiridhar]

One of the worst options to choose from. Laptop, mac mini, intel nuc(the cheap plastic chassis with the fan inside) will get you started but thats about it, as the noise floor with these devices is too high. Core's like Roon nucleus titan, SA rhein, grimm Mu1 etc etc are where roon really starts to come through. Getting roon to play well is not as straightforward as grabbing a trial, installing roon server and boom it sounds crap or excellent. Its takes a lot more than what meets the eye to get roon to work at its best and If someone does not want to fall into that pit, native apps from respective companies do a good enough job.

Do you use Roon? If yes, what're you running it on? And if I do go down that route - a proper core for Roon - how would you describe "a lot more than meets the eye"? What else needs to be done?

 

[Phew]

Do you use Roon? If yes, what're you running it on? And if I do go down that route - a proper core for Roon - how would you describe "a lot more than meets the eye"? What else needs to be done?

Yes I use roon, I use a silent angel rhein Z1C. Have made my way to the rhein after using roon on a desktop, then on a mac mini, then to a intel nuc and finally rhein. The chain is Rhein > streamer > dac > amp > speaker. Next upgrade is a power supply for rhein.

Switched OFF wifi from airtel router next reduced the length of all the lan cables in the chain to 1M expect for the one which is POE for access points to give wifi to the entire house. Adding a pic below to help understand better. Doing so brought about the most cost effective improvement.

 

[reignofchaos]

It is quite possible that lumin sucks with roon however - I tried it and didn't like it at all.

 

[reignofchaos]

One of the worst options to choose from. Laptop, mac mini, intel nuc(the cheap plastic chassis with the fan inside) will get you started but thats about it, as the noise floor with these devices is too high. Core's like Roon nucleus titan, SA rhein, grimm Mu1 etc etc are where roon really starts to come through. Getting roon to play well is not as straightforward as grabbing a trial, installing roon server and boom it sounds crap or excellent. Its takes a lot more than what meets the eye to get roon to work at its best and If someone does not want to fall into that pit, native apps from respective companies do a good enough job.

You just need a really good power supply ideally a linear one for the pc and a properly isolated network card running over sfp like jcat or afterdark. Any random parts will not work. You will also have to optimize the cpu to run at the lowest voltage and clocks possible to reduce emi.

 

[JaideepGiridhar]

Yes I use roon, I use a silent angel rhein Z1C. Have made my way to the rhein after using roon on a desktop, then on a mac mini, then to a intel nuc and finally rhein. The chain is Rhein > streamer > dac > amp > speaker. Next upgrade is a power supply for rhein.

Switched OFF wifi from airtel router next reduced the length of all the lan cables in the chain to 1M expect for the one which is POE for access points to give wifi to the entire house. Adding a pic below to help understand better. Doing so brought about the most cost effective improvement.

View attachment 89489

Thanks. This helps.

 

[JaideepGiridhar]

You just need a really good power supply ideally a linear one for the pc and a properly isolated network card running over sfp like jcat or afterdark. Any random parts will not work. You will also have to optimize the cpu to run at the lowest voltage and clocks possible to reduce emi.

The rest of my chain is pretty much isolated - there's an LHY network switch connected to my router using SFP and LPS with both streamers. I've always felt the core was the weak link, which is why I prefer the Lumin app. I might consider the suggestion that @Phew made.

 

[Phew]

You just need a really good power supply ideally a linear one for the pc and a properly isolated network card running over sfp like jcat or afterdark. Any random parts will not work. You will also have to optimize the cpu to run at the lowest voltage and clocks possible to reduce emi.

Yes, that is another option, but a cleaner, simpler, and why-go-through-all-that-trouble option is what I have chosen. So whatever sails your boat.

It is quite possible that lumin sucks with roon however - I tried it and didn't like it at all.

I know 3 people in my circle out of whom 2 have sold their lumin saying it didn't work for them and the other one is in love with it.

 

[reignofchaos]

The rest of my chain is pretty much isolated - there's an LHY network switch connected to my router using SFP and LPS with both streamers. I've always felt the core was the weak link, which is why I prefer the Lumin app. I might consider the suggestion that @Phew made.

One has to ensure the core is not connected directly to the switch where the endpoint is - especially via copper.
In my case, I have one "dirty switch" which takes in ethernet cable for internet. The core ethernet cable is also connected here. This switch is then connected to an etherregen via sfp. My primary streamer (SOTM stack) is on the B side of the etherregen while the secondary streamer (eversolo) is connected to the A side via copper. The sfp cable connects the etherregen to the "dirty switch"

 

[ajuvignesh]

sorry for the off topic. How do you guys subscribe to roon? I wanted to try roon trial and tried with visa, mastercard and diners club credit cards from sbi, hdfc and standard chartered banks. All banks rejected payments to roon.

I want to use roon to play Qobuz to roon enabled endpoint. should I still need a core to run somewhere in the network or iphone app and endpoint is enough?

 

[reignofchaos]

@ajuvignesh : You need to run roon core on the local network. No option!

 

[ajuvignesh]

@ajuvignesh : You need to run roon core on the local network. No option!

Thank you.

 

[bhooshaniyer]

sorry for the off topic. How do you guys subscribe to roon? I wanted to try roon trial and tried with visa, mastercard and diners club credit cards from sbi, hdfc and standard chartered banks. All banks rejected payments to roon.

I want to use roon to play Qobuz to roon enabled endpoint. should I still need a core to run somewhere in the network or iphone app and endpoint is enough?k

I could not make peace with roon despite trying 3 times. It's tricky and needs a lot of it skills and expense. Guys who do well with roon usually have a professional level nw experience (so they get off it), high end roon core budget, linux expertise to fix hqp + dac to match hqp. Altogether you are looking at 4-5 lacs layout+ experience/opp cost of 10 lacs. For those that are not nw processionals(like me), caution is advised.

 

[thedude]

I've tried very hard to like Roon's SQ in the past (I love their UX but not the sound) but gave up after several attempts. I tried one more time last week, and posted my impressions on the Roon Community discussion board. Peter Lie, Lumin's firmware lead for network players responded, suggesting I might not have maximised Roon's capabilities to get the most out of the two Lumin streamers I have. I did this, and after A/B testing with Roon and Lumin, came to the conclusion that Lumin easily trumps Roon. Here's my exchange with Peter:

View attachment 89485

I suppose it could depend on the system or just personal preference?

With U2, JPLAY is clearly better than Roon, and Roon easily outperforms the Lumin app.

There’s a forum member in another thread who insists JPLAY can’t be better than Roon due to technical reasons. They’ve never done an A/B test but refuse to accept that. In my experience, JPLAY is better than Roon by a small margin (sounds more lively).

I’m not technical, so I can only go by my subjective listening experience.

PS: Roon core was a MacMini M1.

 

[JaideepGiridhar]

I suppose it could depend on the system or just personal preference?

With U2, JPLAY is clearly better than Roon, and Roon easily outperforms the Lumin app.

There’s a forum member in another thread who insists JPLAY can’t be better than Roon due to technical reasons. They’ve never done an A/B test but refuse to accept that. In my experience, JPLAY is better than Roon by a small margin (sounds more lively).

I’m not technical, so I can only go by my subjective listening experience.

PS: Roon core was a MacMini M1.

I wrote to JPlay after that FM pointed out it can't be better than Roon. This was their response:
JPLAY does not touch audio data, so there is no signal processing. The difference in sound is achieved only through minimizing network traffic between the app and the streamer.