Sound quality difference in JVC vs Pioneer receiver

[amit_s]

I recently upgraded my i10 speakers to focal component speakers for front doors, to focal 9 inch oval for rear tray and got damping in front doors done. Initially, I got Pioneer MVH-219bt head unit installed but its interface was slow difficult to navigate so dealer suggested me to change it to jvc kd-x351bt, therefore after listening for 2 days I switched to jvc. Afterwards, bass and treble are good but i am missing the texture and openness of sound that was with Pioneer. Is it inherent feature of pioneer units or is it lack of proper equalization settings ? Jvc has lot of sound enhancement options. I have tried a lot of adjustments but not satisfied, in pioneer i just had to just decrease treble to -3 and bass and mid to 2 and 3. Focal tweeters were sounding too sharp with Pioneer.

Please suggest what can be done? Do i need to add an amp or switch head unit? Or Spend more time in equalization settings?

Focal Performance Auditor+ RSE-165PSI 6.5" 2-Way Component Car Speakers (375W 75RMS)
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B079WYSQ6M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_424TBbC1QK1TF

Focal Auditor+ RCX-690PSI (6"x9" 3-Way) Pair of Coaxial Car Speaker (500 W) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07FW7KQ55/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_L44TBbS1C3TCA

https://pioneer-india.in/buy/car-entertainment-car-stereos-usb-players/mvh-s219bt/

JVC KD-X351BTMN Digital Media Receiver for Car (Black) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B076HZ2HHL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_d74TBb1H9FJ1K

-Thanks

 

[hifitoaster]

Try turning off the loudness option? Tweeters being fatigue means, try reducing eq band 8, 9, 10. First try 9 down by -6 db , 10 by -3 and 8 also by -3db If its getting better, adjust those alone further down until you are not loosing the detail too much in those freq. Keep all other enhancements like space, drive eq ... everything off.

In my brothers car, he was too disappointed after a pro installation with his setup for some time. he too wanted to change the deck because of this reason, treble is too sharp, and vocals were too trebly, edgy , and fatiguing. But, after a month of struggling use with it, the new decks sound became very cold, listenable.. its not a burn in in mind, but some electronics need some time before settling in. Let it play continously for some days, before returning. We had really positive results with it. By the way it was a kenwood, but JVC and kenwood are just two different faceplates, they are exactly the same.

 

[matbhuvi]

Focal do have a unique sharp signature. Pioneer do have a digital signature. But, it is neutral. It could have exposed the original signature of focal.

 

[amit_s]

Thanks, I switched off all sound enhancements, loudness and bass boost. Set the correct speaker size, placement and crossover settings. Fader set to zero. Car type is set to off. Did following pro equalizer settings :
62.5: +3db
100: +3db
250: -1db
400: -1db
630: +1db
1k: +2db
1.6k: +2db
2.5k: +3db
4k: +1db
6.3k : +1db
10k: -2db
16k:. -1db

Now, everything seems spot on. All boom gone, vocals are very natural, harshness from tweeter gone. Sound is open and clear, bass is tight and adequate. Now I want to spend more time in car.

 

[hifitoaster]

Thanks, I switched off all sound enhancements, loudness and bass boost. Set the correct speaker size, placement and crossover settings. Fader set to zero. Car type is set to off. Did following pro equalizer settings :
62.5: +3db
100: +3db
250: -1db
400: -1db
630: +1db
1k: +2db
1.6k: +2db
2.5k: +3db
4k: +1db
6.3k : +1db
10k: -2db
16k:. -1db

Now, everything seems spot on. All boom gone, vocals are very natural, harshness from tweeter gone. Sound is open and clear, bass is tight and adequate. Now I want to spend more time in car.

i think the loudness was the issue. the eq can be set depending upon the car, your speaker type and your target sound. Its only a matter of finding the setting based on your setup. If someone tries the same in another car with different speaker or the same speaker results will be vastly different. Its nice to have more bands to play with in a car environment.

 

[hifitoaster]

i think the loudness was the issue. the eq can be set depending upon the car, your speaker type and your target sound. Its only a matter of finding the setting based on your setup. If someone tries the same in another car with different speaker or the same speaker results will be vastly different. Its nice to have more bands to play with in a car environment.

if u dont have the amp, get the focal auditor amp itself. Its really good.

 

[sandeepmohan]

Is there even a slightest hint that speaker polarity may be off?

 

[amit_s]

I don't think speaker polarity is off because i tried changing fading and balance and position of source was moving as expected. How to know that polarity is off?

if u dont have the amp, get the focal auditor amp itself. Its really good.

I am planning to get one but just worried about loudness, already it feels very loud at 20 don't you think it will be an overkill for a small car like i10?

 

[hifitoaster]

I don't think speaker polarity is off because i tried changing fading and balance and position of source was moving as expected. How to know that polarity is off?

I am planning to get one but just worried about loudness, already it feels very loud at 20 don't you think it will be an overkill for a small car like i10?

its a misconception that the amp is for loudness.. Another one is you dont need so much watts in that room. In my experience the more watts means, more comfortable the speaker goes. You can have non tolerable loudness even from a 20 watt amp. But, with a higher watt amp, u get better better control over the speakers diaphragm movement resulting in , better bass at low volumes, linearity in freq response at lower volume levels, better imaging and so on. If you listen at the same ( loudness level ) u will find with an amp, it will be more refined in every ways, u will hear more details also depending on your amp. The kenwood in my brothers car was driving the speakers really loud, everything sounded very 'loose' until we added an amp. AGAIN, ITS NOT ABOUT LOUDNESS I SWEAR!

 

[amit_s]

its a misconception that the amp is for loudness.. Another one is you dont need so much watts in that room. In my experience the more watts means, more comfortable the speaker goes. You can have non tolerable loudness even from a 20 watt amp. But, with a higher watt amp, u get better better control over the speakers diaphragm movement resulting in , better bass at low volumes, linearity in freq response at lower volume levels, better imaging and so on. If you listen at the same ( loudness level ) u will find with an amp, it will be more refined in every ways, u will hear more details also depending on your amp. The kenwood in my brothers car was driving the speakers really loud, everything sounded very 'loose' until we added an amp. AGAIN, ITS NOT ABOUT LOUDNESS I SWEAR!

Thanks for helping me out, that's exactly what i am looking for. I like to listen at low volume. I am going to order amp there seems already good discount on it.

Focal Performance Auditor+ AP-4340SI 4/3/2 Channel Car Amplifier (70RMS*4 190RMS*2) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B078KCQ2RY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8YIWBbQSES24A

 

[amit_s]

Installed focal amp, over brightness of tweeter is gone now. Bass and vocals are much better at low volumes. I haven't tried low pass and High pass filters on amp and bass boost switch. The rca cable that came with kit was producing a constant noise in rear speakers when engine is started. The installation guy put a noise suppressor filter between rca cable and input on amp. Can it cause degradation in sound? Should i replace with better rca cable with shielding? The wiring kit with only single pair of rca cable, i am using 4 channels so needed one extra pair which is Blaupunkt 5 mtr rca, its very thick and has good shielding. The other one is without shielding that came with wiring kit.

 

[edjamesx]

I recently upgraded my i10 speakers to focal component speakers for front doors, to focal 9 inch oval for rear tray and got damping in front doors done. Initially, I got Pioneer MVH-219bt head unit installed but its interface was slow difficult to navigate so dealer suggested me to change it to jvc kd-x351bt, therefore after listening for 2 days I switched to jvc. Afterwards, bass and treble are good but i am missing the texture and openness of sound that was with Pioneer

-Thanks

I also felt same when i switched from pioneer headunit to kenwood headunit..

I tried all settings from kenwood... but something was missing as in pioneer.. sound was not lively.. and not a punchy bass. Kenwood system produce more vocals..rather musicals..

I switchec back to pioneer audiophole model DEH80PRS .. and what a diiference it made...

I am quite happy... now i have added pioneer sub as well. Sound is great...

Please suggest what can be done? Do i need to add an amp or switch head unit? Or Spend more time in equalization settings?

Check you have frequency response settings for each speaker in headunit ...adjust from 60hz to 120 hz according to your taste.
I think your JVC will have equalizer instead of just bass , terrible settings , that have better control . You need to set correct equalizer curve. You may google and check and set the custom eq curves.
Adding external amplifier have advantage - since you have focal component speakers , sound quality will improve definitely.

If nothing works then switch back to pioneer models as me , Check DEH80PRS model - its not sold in india ..you need to source from US.

 

[amit_s]

The jvc head unit has options for tweeter size i.e. small /medium/large/none and xover frequency i.e. 1.6khz/2.5/4khz in front speaker tweeter. I wandering how it works because there is a passive xover that came with component speakers, that's actually responsible for dividing output from amp into tweeter and woofer. There is only single rca pair that's comes out from head unit for front speakers.

When i change tweeter size and xover frequemcy there is audible difference that I notice.

 

[yugaaa]

What ever you do the tweeters would sound harsh with the auditor series . The JVC has better OP-AMP compared to the pioneer and is in fact a better product than pioneer . The only way to reduce the tweeter harshness is to reduce the output of the tweeter . The tweeter is a metal dome tweeter and the sound is in the ears . can you try connecting a resistor to the tweeter to reduce the power ?

 

[hifitoaster]

Installed focal amp, over brightness of tweeter is gone now. Bass and vocals are much better at low volumes. I haven't tried low pass and High pass filters on amp and bass boost switch. The rca cable that came with kit was producing a constant noise in rear speakers when engine is started. The installation guy put a noise suppressor filter between rca cable and input on amp. Can it cause degradation in sound? Should i replace with better rca cable with shielding? The wiring kit with only single pair of rca cable, i am using 4 channels so needed one extra pair which is Blaupunkt 5 mtr rca, its very thick and has good shielding. The other one is without shielding that came with wiring kit.

Degintiely something else. My brothers car has the same amp which is why I recommended it without any doubt. Hr is not getting any noise sourced from a kenwood. Can you try swipibg the channels on the amp? The front with rear and vice versa? Then we will know what is wrong.

 

[hifitoaster]

What ever you do the tweeters would sound harsh with the auditor series . The JVC has better OP-AMP compared to the pioneer and is in fact a better product than pioneer . The only way to reduce the tweeter harshness is to reduce the output of the tweeter . The tweeter is a metal dome tweeter and the sound is in the ears . can you try connecting a resistor to the tweeter to reduce the power ?

If I am not wrong his harshnenss problem was already solved.

 

[gilfredpaul]

What ever you do the tweeters would sound harsh with the auditor series . The JVC has better OP-AMP compared to the pioneer and is in fact a better product than pioneer . The only way to reduce the tweeter harshness is to reduce the output of the tweeter . The tweeter is a metal dome tweeter and the sound is in the ears . can you try connecting a resistor to the tweeter to reduce the power ?

I am thinking other way auditor with JVC sounds more harsh, even i was having this combo, now moved on with different combo 80prs and audible physics.

 

[amit_s]

I am thinking other way auditor with JVC sounds more harsh, even i was having this combo, now moved on with different combo 80prs and audible physics.

80 prs is not available in India, any equivalent available in India ? What about Alpine units? I am having one more problem, just found out that connection from amp out terminal are having incorrect polarity. I used polarity checker app available on playstore but not sure if this app is correctly telling the polarity because its not consistent. Also, there are too many joints in speaker cables so I am thinking to get wiring done again with good quality speaker cables of 16 awg DAC available on hifimart.

 

[gilfredpaul]

you can look for used 80prs or even 8750bt. Alpine are very good HU, but not much aware of current alpine models. Even i am planning to rewire my system in 4awg wiring kit.

For more tech details on your problem i am tagging #Kannan, sure he can help you.

 

[amit_s]

Finally, i changed my headunit to pioneer AVH-A2190BT(pioneer website says it has new pcb layout for low noise). Initially i was frustrated because didn't get the quality i was expecting but after playing with its settings for couple of days i am now very much satisfied.
I had to set hpf for rear speakers at 50hz to remove boom and muddiness, fader to 2 units towards rear, equalizer bass +4 from 50 to 200hz to suppress loudness of tweeter. Most importantly time alignment for all positions (this made the most significant difference, i figured out this very late). There is no harshness in tweeter now, soundstage and vocal texture is very good, bass is very controled and tight similar to my room speakers that have silk dome tweeters.

In jvc, crossover points are automatically adjusted according to speaker and tweeter size selected and there is no way to disable this. I guess the factory settings dont go well with focal components. Tweeter of focal is very loud.