Stereo Receivers/Network players Vs. Integrated amplifier

[shibashis]

I am sure that this question has been asked and discussed before in the forum but I thought I should rekindle it somewhat given the availability of many attractive options of stereo receivers /network players in the market now.

I am specifically going to point to Marantz here.
The Marantz CR 603 Network-CD player at RS. 32500 is a very very attractive option for stereo listening. The reviews have been rave and actually there is nothing not to like about this. 60W of power (at 6 Ohms though) with a built in CD player and with almost complete repertoire of networking and streaming feature this can not be given a miss. The performance it seems can not be dismissed, given Marantz's reputation that hardly is surprising.
Details about Marantz is here : Network Players & Receivers : Marantz M-CR603 Network CD Receiver

Now the favourite amplifier of many the Marantz PM 6004 is available at Rs. 29900, which is very close to its best price in the offline market as well. We all know what the 6004 offers, great sound quality at an affordable price, with 45 Watts at 8 Ohms.
Marantz PM6004 Integrated Amplifier

So with only Rs. 2500 extra you get so many extra features with the CR 603, an unbelievable deal it would seem. The question then is how much of a performance compromise it will be with the CR 603 compared to the PM 6004?

I am looking for a second stereo system for my bedroom and so am in the hunt for affordable yet quality amplifier. The CR 603 ticks all the right boxes, it is compact, looks great and with the ever increasing collection of FLAC and other digital files on NAS drives and network shares this is a great device.

CD player + digital music player + DAC + streaming features + amplifier....

Marantz are not the only one, generally stereo receivers are cheaper than the integrated amplifiers, Yamaha offers stunning specs for their receivers !
I have heard the AS-500, and it is not bad, quite decent in fact, if their stereo receiver series can offer near to that performance then it must be considered quite good.

So the question is how worth are these options, especially the Marantz CR 603, other forum members with more experience can provide more input to this.
Greatly appreciate all the opinions.

 

[Amarendra]

Hi, suggest you listen to the 603. I had heard it a few months back and it is good from a small bedroom, desktop listening perspective. I had otherwise found the sound a tad weak compared to entry level dedicated stereo amps. Better to listen first hand though.

 

[asliarun]

I believe it is a class d amp vs the more conventional class ab amplification (with toroid transformer). Class d is all about implementation and reacts to speaker impedances differently, so I think only auditions with specific speakers will give you the answer.

 

[haisaikat]

@shibashis, my opinion would be that if you need all in one solution then 603 is the way to go. But if you want upgrade ability or better SQ then separates will be the option. Then again what speakers you will pair also matter whether they can bring out the difference between a stereo receiver and a dedicated separate integrated amp. In my opinion if it is for bedroom and casual listening primarily then go for even cheaper systems which comes with built in speakers like the CA Minx Go or the likes of it.

 

[shibashis]

Hi, suggest you listen to the 603. I had heard it a few months back and it is good from a small bedroom, desktop listening perspective. I had otherwise found the sound a tad weak compared to entry level dedicated stereo amps. Better to listen first hand though.

Thanks Amarendra for providing some feedback on the 603. This is what I was and am skeptical about to start with, that is how would such an all-in-one system measure up to dedicated amplifiers.

 

[shibashis]

I believe it is a class d amp vs the more conventional class ab amplification (with toroid transformer). Class d is all about implementation and reacts to speaker impedances differently, so I think only auditions with specific speakers will give you the answer.

I was looking for specific differentiating factors, the class of amplifier makes it clearer. I am not at all knowledgeable in electronics but it is generally regarded that Class D is inferior to Class A or Class AB, right?
I do plan to audition and find out myself, but some research and discussion through the forum as always will help a great deal.

 

[shibashis]

@Saikat, an all in one solution is always appealing because of its nature. SQ will of of the highest importance with all things considered, the 'things' being budget, medium of music, delivery system, space and possible placement considerations.
I will only opt for an all on one solution if it can perform to the standard of a dedicated amplifier in my setup. Now my setup likely is going to be like this:
FLAC files on SAMBA share on Fedora -> Laptop/Tablet -> DAC -> Amplifier

Or

CD/DVD player ->Amplifier

With the 603 I can forego the need of a laptop or tablet and DAC in between and go straight to the amplifier, but am not prepared to sacrifice SQ for that. If needed I will use the laptop and gladly run a cable to the amplifier, that will not be too much of a trouble.

As for speakers at the present moment I will be using the Dali Zensor 1s that I already own, in future it could be something better but most likely will stay with bookshelves.
My budget at the moment is about 30000, if I get good deals in used gear then perhaps I can pick up an amplifier and a pair of used speakers for a little more.

 

[rpanand25]

Sorry for butting in but my query is same- how much of a difference in SQ is between a stereo receiver and dedicated integrated amp as when amp is only on in stereo receiver(when receiver function is not being used)? Yamaha has pretty temptating offers in stereo receivers. Perhaps other brands are similar. Now it is class AB versus class AB, right?

 

[docd]

If you want a one box system with everything, I suggest you hear the Cambridge Audio Minx Xi. I have heard it recently and its real value for money with audiophile SQ. I think the complete system with speakers should be around 55,000 Rs.
Minx Xi Digital Music System | Cambridge Audio

 

[shibashis]

Thanks for the suggestion but the Minx Xi will be out of my budget. I am not looking to spend that much now, as I mentioned I plan to work with Rs. 30000 now or thereabouts. Either buy a new amplifier and use with existing Dalis or if I get good deals then used amplifier and speakers both.

 

[reignofchaos]

Most of these stereo receiver/network player thingies have a single chip based preamplification and decoding compared to fully discrete (potentially class A) preamplification designs in budget integrated amps. Obviously quality will suffer.

 

[grunthos]

There is a third option in digital stereo receivers - the NAD D3020
It sells for $500 in Amazon, so it might just fit into your budget in India

It comes with a USB DAC and Bluetooth AptX, but no WiFi or media playback functions

 

[haisaikat]

I do not know how much Onkyo NR 2050 currently costs but there are some good reviews of it even on this forum.

 

[manniraj]

I do not know how much Onkyo NR 2050 currently costs but there are some good reviews of it even on this forum.

I think you meant Onkyo TX-8050, last I heard on this forum was around 35k in India but way cheaper in US but with the voltage difference. I think FM Nikhil of Hyd was using it or might still be using it. He had opened a thread detailing his experience and it was great read for somebody looking at this receiver.

 

[haisaikat]

I think you meant Onkyo TX-8050, last I heard on this forum was around 35k in India but way cheaper in US but with the voltage difference. I think FM Nikhil of Hyd was using it or might still be using it. He had opened a thread detailing his experience and it was great read for somebody looking at this receiver.

tx-8050 it is, thanks

 

[asliarun]

I was looking for specific differentiating factors, the class of amplifier makes it clearer. I am not at all knowledgeable in electronics but it is generally regarded that Class D is inferior to Class A or Class AB, right?
I do plan to audition and find out myself, but some research and discussion through the forum as always will help a great deal.

As a thumb rule, you are correct, at least as far as budget or starter systems are concerned. Class D ranges from el cheapo implementation that sounds harsh and peaky (think: boombox quality) to the other end of the spectrum too - multi-thousand dollar amps that have a very detailed and refined presentation. Class D has some strengths too - it is much more capable of driving speakers that have big impedance dips. Typically budget level Class AB amps will bottom out with these kind of speakers and will start clipping because they can't handle the impedance and phase swings of hard to drive speakers.

Bang and Olufsen for example uses Icepower Class D modules that have a very very good reputation for sound quality. There are other high quality examples too.

But back to the question of this Marantz model - I have my reservations. Marantz entry level stuff in this category is decent (actually better than most other brands) but I don't think it matches the quality of a Class AB amp with decent power supply (toroid tranny). At the end of the day, it is simple commercial formula. If you have a feature loaded system, most of the budget went into the features, not on SQ. And features sell far far more than SQ.

But I will second grunthos' recommendation. NAD D 3020 is a cutting edge amp that will put even most entry level dedicated stereo amps to shame. It uses a completely different technology for amplification - is essentially a DAC with enough output amplification to drive most speakers. You should seriously consider it. The reviews should also give you more confidence about this product. They have a higher end model, D 7050 that also has network streaming inbuilt but I think the price increase is not justified. D 3020 is superb value for money. It also supports bluetooth apx that you can use for wireless streaming, and you can feed it pure digital input signal from your laptop. It also supports high res audio formats so that is a nice feature to have if you start looking at sites like HDAudio etc.

 

[amit11]

All in one types appeal, but better to avoid. SQ does get impacted. Same happened to me initially and i too was liking that idea, however not any more. I had checked 603 but sq was ok, not that great.

Also remember, networking / shariing solutions appeal but they rarely work smoothly due to network issues. U will experience glitches / hanging / buffering etc and not let you enjoy music. Also in such cases your focus will get diverted to selecting the song via the limited display rather than playing and enjoying.

 

[zendya]

I assume the same logic will apply to Marantz NR1504 AVR as well? i.e. the quality of sound would not be as good as Marantz PM 6004?

I'm looking at upgrading my receiver from Yamaha to Marantz. There were suggestions to create another setup with stereo amp like PM6004 but I prefer to just have one setup. Hence still debating. I'm hoping that I'll still see good improvement by upgrading to Marantz AVR.

 

[shibashis]

As a thumb rule, you are correct, at least as far as budget or starter systems are concerned. Class D ranges from el cheapo implementation that sounds harsh and peaky (think: boombox quality) to the other end of the spectrum too - multi-thousand dollar amps that have a very detailed and refined presentation. Class D has some strengths too - it is much more capable of driving speakers that have big impedance dips. Typically budget level Class AB amps will bottom out with these kind of speakers and will start clipping because they can't handle the impedance and phase swings of hard to drive speakers.

Bang and Olufsen for example uses Icepower Class D modules that have a very very good reputation for sound quality. There are other high quality examples too.

But back to the question of this Marantz model - I have my reservations. Marantz entry level stuff in this category is decent (actually better than most other brands) but I don't think it matches the quality of a Class AB amp with decent power supply (toroid tranny). At the end of the day, it is simple commercial formula. If you have a feature loaded system, most of the budget went into the features, not on SQ. And features sell far far more than SQ.

But I will second grunthos' recommendation. NAD D 3020 is a cutting edge amp that will put even most entry level dedicated stereo amps to shame. It uses a completely different technology for amplification - is essentially a DAC with enough output amplification to drive most speakers. You should seriously consider it. The reviews should also give you more confidence about this product. They have a higher end model, D 7050 that also has network streaming inbuilt but I think the price increase is not justified. D 3020 is superb value for money. It also supports bluetooth apx that you can use for wireless streaming, and you can feed it pure digital input signal from your laptop. It also supports high res audio formats so that is a nice feature to have if you start looking at sites like HDAudio etc.

My gut feeling is being vindicated here. Thanks Arun, my logic was the very same that if you are packing so many features into one box then invariably the devotion to SQ has to suffer somewhat as a result, otherwise simply why would an entry level dedicated amp cost the same amount as the all-in-ones?

The Marantz looks great and is compelling, I will give it a listen but I have a feeling I will go with a dedicated amplifier. I will check where I can get an audition for the NAD, whatever I have read has all been positive to an extent where people can not stop praising it, so am looking forward to it.
Hope this thread is proving to be useful for other with similar queries too.

 

[shibashis]

Sorry, wrong post.