The new Nagra Streamer

[essrand]

I think this is the most stunning recent hi-fi release that hasn't gotten the publicity it deserves. I am continually hearing great reports from friends who have taken a plunge.

Why stunning? Let me count the reasons:

1) Only $5000.
Yes, $5000 is a lot of money, but a product coming from a Nagra stable that doesn't cost 5-figures or even 6-figures is news IMO. This is as cheap as Aurender's lowest end model, but has the build quality of Nagra.
Given that high-end has become ridiculous, and now there are streamers now that cost 89,000$ (Taiko Olympus) and 125,000$ (Wadax); Nagra could have slapped their famous modulo meters and some extra aluminium bling and priced this in 5-figures, but they didn't. Thank you!

2) A friend of mine, who also owns a Nagra Tube DAC, compared this with Grimm MU1 and Playback Design MPX (both cost twice upwards of 12,000$) prefers this streamer.

3) Only $5000! Did I mention that, oh yes I did.
Don't blame me, but It's been a really really long time since someone released a high-end product from an established brand that didn't cost as much as sedan or an SUV or a Mercedes or a BMW or these days a Lamborghini.

4) Works well with other DACs as well, see Steve Huff's review, but would be extra-special with Nagra or Playback Design DACs because it uses N-Link optical connector that can even be 200m long without losing SQ.

 

[muralimmreddy]

they kept it simple, no dedicated app, pure streaming connect only (spotify connect, tidal connect etc), must have helped the development cost


Hype man did a video recently

 

[jai1611]

Steve Huff doesn't do reviews, only advertorials

That apart, seems a great match for Nagra DACs

 

[reignofchaos]

It's a tall claim - streamers don't need to cost a bomb to sound great. They just need to support the right software and protocols so that they can be tweaked. So far the best streamer I have heard is the 800$ holo red simply because with a custom OS, you can tune the kernel, scheduling, network protocol(Diretta) and other aspects of the software stack perfectly on it.

What expensive streamers give you are nice fancy cases and screens with custom apps. None of these are actually a necessary requirement for a streamer.

 

[sidvee]

If you like the brand name then so be it. Is it going to be better than similarly priced or higher priced units? No idea, haven't heard it, but having heard 5-6 different streaming brands in the $5 -$10k range and owning 2 in the $2.5k to $5k, I would be highly sceptical. It is like when luxman decided to make a streamer based on Lumin units, perhaps a luxman owner (like myself) would have preferred this to a lumin to match their components or whatever. Personally I think it is just to be relevant in the market for digital products.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[captainsubtext]

I can see some online stores in India stocking this already at an MRP of 6.2 lakhs.

they were nice enough to post a photo of the internals of this thing as well.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I can see some online stores in India stocking this already at an MRP of 6.2 lakhs.

they were nice enough to post a photo of the internals of this thing as well.

View attachment 88609

Looks like a solid milled case. Might make sense for users of Nagra dacs where the N-link might be their properietary transmission mode, and might actually sound great with Nagra dacs with that input.

But for everyone else, a single coaxial output with a switch mode power supply is a bummer at that price. Not to mention the limitations of the sample rates of that connection. With no native app, one will be forced to use Roon, for DSD over PCM transmission I think.

Either ways, I think this is only for Nagra dac owners.

Edit - I dont think this is cheap either. This is just a streaming board in a fancy case. There might be a matching power supply for this coming out soon, and combined that might be 5 figures

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

they kept it simple, no dedicated app, pure streaming connect only (spotify connect, tidal connect etc), must have helped the development cost


Hype man did a video recently

The only reason I still watch his channel is to stay abreast with latest beard styles for bald men . Pretty useless for anything else

 

[reignofchaos]

Compare those internals to this for 800$

 

[mbhangui]

Looks like a solid milled case.

That is the emperor Nagra's new cloth. You just called it out.

Might make sense for users of Nagra dacs where the N-link might be their properietary transmission mode, and might actually sound great with Nagra dacs with that inp

There is a CPU without any heat sink. Has to be some low powered Chinese ARM processor for a mobile phone. So it will not be super fast. DSD playback quality would be a suspect, with the Nagra link again performing the job of the emperor's new cloth. Three tiny electrolyctic caps, so this bugger totally depends on the quality of the external power supply which happens to be a SMPS? This looks like the first attempt to enter the crowded streaming market. Seems that is the reason the cost is not in the 5 figures and Nagra wants to learn.

For a good streamer all that is required is the software stack to keep on supplying the audio bits to the DAC buffer before the DAC buffer gets depleted. Hence it just needs fast enough CPU and fast enough network. Of course it also needs a basic softare to pull the bits from the subscribed music service for streaming. In case a user is going to stick something in the backside (i mean insert something in the usb port), then it also needs a software to play all file formats and have a good algorithm for resampling algorithms.

On the software stack it can do only spotify and Tidal. Apple music is restricted to the lossy airplay. So apple music users will be better off with an iphone or ipad. I guess the redeeming feature of this would be the DAC and the nagra link. Can't make out what DAC it is using. For the rest it will be the emperor's new cloth.

But for everyone else, a single coaxial output with a switch mode power supply is a bummer at that price. Not to mention the limitations of the sample rates of that connection. With no native app, one will be forced to use Roon, for DSD over PCM transmission I think.

Either ways, I think this is only for Nagra dac owners.

Edit - I dont think this is cheap either. This is just a streaming board in a fancy case. There might be a matching power supply for this coming out soon, and combined that might be 5 figures

 

[mbhangui]

Compare those internals to this for 800$

View attachment 88610

1. Shielded transfomer. Inspires confidence
2. 6 proper sized electrolytic caps. Inspires confidence
3. processor with built in metal heat sink, so definitely higher powered than the nagra. Inspires confidence.
4. Processor on a different board than the dac (which I think the nagra also has).
5. Short distance between the processor and memory chip. Inspires confidence. The nagra processor is few KM away from the memory chip.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

That is the emperor Nagra's new cloth. You just called it out.


There is a CPU without any heat sink. Has to be some low powered Chinese ARM processor for a mobile phone. So it will not be super fast. DSD playback quality would be a suspect, with the Nagra link again performing the job of the emperor's new cloth. Three tiny electrolyctic caps, so this bugger totally depends on the quality of the external power supply which happens to be a SMPS? This looks like the first attempt to enter the crowded streaming market. Seems that is the reason the cost is not in the 5 figures and Nagra wants to learn.

For a good streamer all that is required is the software stack to keep on supplying the audio bits to the DAC buffer before the DAC buffer gets depleted. Hence it just needs fast enough CPU and fast enough network. Of course it also needs a basic softare to pull the bits from the subscribed music service for streaming. In case a user is going to stick something in the backside (i mean insert something in the usb port), then it also needs a software to play all file formats and have a good algorithm for resampling algorithms.

On the software stack it can do only spotify and Tidal. Apple music is restricted to the lossy airplay. So apple music users will be better off with an iphone or ipad. I guess the redeeming feature of this would be the DAC and the nagra link. Can't make out what DAC it is using. For the rest it will be the emperor's new cloth.

The nagra is strictly a digital transport only and no built in dac. I expect that a power supply will be luanched for this soon, so the supplied walwart might just be something to tide over for the present. I think a lot of the budget must have gone into development of their propreitary Nagra-link, considering how few of high end units usually sell, the lack of scale has to be compensated with an increased R&D cost distribution over the fewer sales, and hence the hefty price I think.

Though sound quality might be the ulitmate arbitrator of the price, considering that the Grimm Mu-1 almost looks like a school summer project at asembling a working PC.

 

[mbhangui]

The nagra is strictly a digital transport only and no built in dac. I expect that a power supply will be luanched for this soon, so the supplied walwart might just be something to tide over for the present. I think a lot of the budget must have gone into development of their propreitary Nagra-link, considering how few of high end units usually sell, the lack of scale has to be compensated with an increased R&D cost distribution over the fewer sales, and hence the hefty price I think.

Though sound quality might be the ulitmate arbitrator of the price, considering that the Grimm Mu-1 almost looks like a school summer project at asembling a working PC.

Ok. Yes there is no dac. Didn't see that there is no analog audio out. So that daughter board could be the network card.

 

[reignofchaos]

1. Shielded transfomer. Inspires confidence
2. 6 proper sized electrolytic caps. Inspires confidence
3. processor with built in metal heat sink, so definitely higher powered than the nagra. Inspires confidence.
4. Processor on a different board than the dac (which I think the nagra also has).
5. Short distance between the processor and memory chip. Inspires confidence. The nagra processor is few KM away from the memory chip.

The processor board is actually a raspberry Pi cm4 which is nice and fast and also fully open. So the entire gamut of rpi infrastructure will work on it.

 

[zeta148]

I can see some online stores in India stocking this already at an MRP of 6.2 lakhs.

they were nice enough to post a photo of the internals of this thing as well.

View attachment 88609

There seems to be an FPGA on board. Could be some proprietary precessing in HW. It could be some kind of re clocking in HW

 

[reignofchaos]

Everything has an FPGA chip on board these days - even the above holo red does.

 

[captainsubtext]

Everything has an FPGA chip on board these days - even the above holo red does.

not having holo audio products available in India is quite annoying - the "authorised dealer" does not even list the products on his website any more.

 

[essrand]

So, while I agree with most points, it's a 80-100$ chip in a box, and apparently even the N-link is just an old industry standard that used to be called ST-optical but is no longer used. Also I am the biggest streamer skeptic ever, I have refused to buy a streamer so far and my Roon NUC beat Aurender's N200, so I stayed away from streamers which I basically think of as a chip in a fancy box, like most of you.

But sound-wise, according the twittering machines review : Grimm MU1 > Holo Red (https://twitteringmachines.com/review-holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/)

And according to an audiophile friend who has owned both : Nagra Streamer > Grimm MU1 in his Nagra DAC.

SQ-wise of course.

So that's exciting to find a streamer better than Grimm MU1 at less than half the price. Not that I am ever gonna buy it, but it is interesting.

 

[reignofchaos]

So, while I agree with most points, it's a 80-100$ chip in a box, and apparently even the N-link is just an old industry standard that used to be called ST-optical but is no longer used. Also I am the biggest streamer skeptic ever, I have refused to buy a streamer so far and my Roon NUC beat Aurender's N200, so I stayed away from streamers which I basically think of as a chip in a fancy box, like most of you.

But sound-wise, according the twittering machines review : Grimm MU1 > Holo Red (https://twitteringmachines.com/review-holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/)

And according to an audiophile friend who has owned both : Nagra Streamer > Grimm MU1 in his Nagra DAC.

SQ-wise of course.

So that's exciting to find a streamer better than Grimm MU1 at less than half the price. Not that I am ever gonna buy it, but it is interesting.

This reviewer used the stock os that comes with it. He didn't even scratch the surface. As I mentioned - the major improvements come when you put something like gentoo player with custom kernels and Diretta. Once that is done, MU-1 can go home. For the record, holo red should be used with USB while MU-1 doesn't even do USB. So what exactly was he comparing?

 

[captainsubtext]

So, while I agree with most points, it's a 80-100$ chip in a box, and apparently even the N-link is just an old industry standard that used to be called ST-optical but is no longer used. Also I am the biggest streamer skeptic ever, I have refused to buy a streamer so far and my Roon NUC beat Aurender's N200, so I stayed away from streamers which I basically think of as a chip in a fancy box, like most of you.

But sound-wise, according the twittering machines review : Grimm MU1 > Holo Red (https://twitteringmachines.com/review-holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/)

And according to an audiophile friend who has owned both : Nagra Streamer > Grimm MU1 in his Nagra DAC.

SQ-wise of course.

So that's exciting to find a streamer better than Grimm MU1 at less than half the price. Not that I am ever gonna buy it, but it is interesting.

Actually the streamer can make a huge difference depending on the dac. It’s a good thing that the Nagra tube dac has a properly implemented usb section but that’s not true for a whole range of dacs which benefit from a streamer/ddc