Tone controls

[Bluu]

Note: I wasn't sure where I should be asking this question so I've put it here. Mods - please move if needed. Thanks!

So, my stereo setup is being moved from a large room to one which is substantially smaller. I'm pretty certain the speakers are going to overwhelm the new location, even at low to moderate volumes. In the original room, it took me quite some time and effort to tighten the bass and get the sound-staging right. Unfortunately, I will not have the luxury of spacing out the speakers as I want in the new room, which brings me to my question.

In my chain: Dell 1720 > SB Duet > AA Primo Cento > Odyssey Syren, how can I get some tone controls (equalization?) in order to tame the sound, especially the LF. I can hear the purists gasping at the very thought but it is an unfortunate thing and my hand is being forced. I love the components I have and replacing them is out of the question.

Please direct me to the cleanest (from SQ POV) and best method to get tone controls. I don't mind if it is a software based hack or a not-very-expensive hardware fix.

Many thanks!

 

[askii2]

Tone controls are primitive (only two controls bass and treble). You can try using an equalizer. It's not correct to say that equalizers are useless. I'll instead advice not modifying frequencies above 300Hz since our ears are most sensitive to the 300Hz to 3000Hz range. Most room corrections can be achieved by modifying frequencies from 50Hz to 200Hz. This shouldn't result in any noticeable degradation of sound.

DNM audio makes good 10+10 band equalizers. DNM enterprise | DNM Audio | DNM product | DNM Audio product | dilip bajaj | audio equipment | Audio Dealer in mumbai | Audio Dealer in andheri | Audio Dealer in india | sound equipment | speakers | Graphic Equalizers | Amplifiers | Audio Card Reader
They contain spectrum analyzer as well so you can connect a mic to them and find out which frequencies are boosted too much by your room.

If you have a higher budget, Behringer's equalizers are excellent and have a much finer control of frequencies because of 31 bands per channel. Adjusting these many bands manually becomes difficult. Getting a mic alongwith Behringer's automatically adjusted digital equalizer is a far better solution, of course at a higher cost.

 

[Bluu]

A friend has the DNM. I will ask to borrow it. Thanks!

 

[hydra]

There were a set of plugins for Foobar that help in rudimentary room correction. I think one of those is called the Convolver or something. These plugins might help by acting as a starting point.

I'm on my phone right now (on so called 3G speeds), so I can't find the links right away. Will post them when I'm on my PC.

 

[Bluu]

Only problem is that I don't use Foobar right now. I can set up a system for it if it means not installing more hardware.

 

[hydra]

No, the plugin does not need a hardware add-on. But I think it does involve using a mic at least once to read how the room interacts with the music. And to me, frankly it does seem all a bit too complicated

These are the links I mentioned: Foobar2000 - DRC
DRC: Digital Room Correction

I read from your post in the other thread that you are moving from a 30x25 room 0_o to a 12x12 square room. I guess this makes it a double challenge -- reduction in size of the room, and dealing with issues in a square room.

I've read that square rooms have huge issues with standing waves and you'll need quite a bit of shuffling around the speakers to get things right.

I was a bit obsessed with speaker placement (and Rs.0.00 room correction) a bit back, and read up enough on it (and played around enough with my very ordinary setup) to be fairly convinced that most issues can be solved with the right room placement.

This guy has advice on fixing a square room. It might not hurt to try it out.

I also remember reading somewhere that going against the symmetry of the room while placing speakers, might help a lot in a square room. I've drawn a picture of how they explained it (please excuse my drawing skills ):


Another way you can perhaps try is to be symmetric in placing speakers, but along the diagonal of the room.


Either of these setups, combined with some largish pillows in the corners might help some.

I've also read posts from people with square rooms, mentioning that furniture placement in the room can be tweaked to improve things, and that leaving the door open while listening to music can reduce the bass buildup in the room.

 

[gobble]

On that note, I have been hoping for digital tone control (equalizer) from my Audio PC (yet to build) ultimately to change the sound signature of my fullrangers. Notably tame the 2 to 4khz range and the bass hump @80hz. What are the pitfalls of doing this via soundcards driver software?

How good is the reputation of PCs digital software equalizer in audiophile community?

Thanks

--G

 

[Bluu]

No, the plugin does not need a hardware add-on.

I think I was unclear in my previous post. I meant to say that I'd rather not introduce more hardware components like an equalizer. Also, I use the Duet to stream music wire-lessly so the Foobar component will not be useful. I should check to see if I can get equalization in SqueezeCenter.

Thanks for sharing the links. Also, I realized that the room is not perfectly square. I think it's closer to 12x11. Since the room is dedicated to the stereo setup I can try the diagonal setup though I'm sure my wife will think I'm not playing with a full deck.

I also plan to generously spread pillows, boxes, plants and all manners of sound deadening objects to kill unwanted reflections.

At the end of the day though, if all else fails, I can try the DNM and see.

 

[Bluu]

All Squeezebox users out there looking for EQ controls:

http://inguzaudio.com/usage/plugin/

The installation is a bit tacky but the EQ controls are neat!

There is also a DSP processor and a mic can be used for room corrections!

 

[marsilians]

I am a fan of tone controls esp. defeatable ones and as much as it is bashed around, people have to realise that everything in your system is acting like a tone control. A caveat is that these have to be implemented properly and only some brands seem to do it better - usually higher end brands such as Carver, Bryston, Creek, McIntosh, ... So don't be influenced by the naysayers or so called purists!

Re: your issue, I would first look into room treatment as its the cheapest and quickest way of taming the imbalance. Also you will be surprised with some placement adjustments and the end results. Bi-amping is another option and so is NOT using bi-wiring if you have it setup currently. If all else fails an equaliser is probably some thing to look into. Lots of options there. Whats your budget

Note: I wasn't sure where I should be asking this question so I've put it here. Mods - please move if needed. Thanks!

So, my stereo setup is being moved from a large room to one which is substantially smaller. I'm pretty certain the speakers are going to overwhelm the new location, even at low to moderate volumes. In the original room, it took me quite some time and effort to tighten the bass and get the sound-staging right. Unfortunately, I will not have the luxury of spacing out the speakers as I want in the new room, which brings me to my question.

In my chain: Dell 1720 > SB Duet > AA Primo Cento > Odyssey Syren, how can I get some tone controls (equalization?) in order to tame the sound, especially the LF. I can hear the purists gasping at the very thought but it is an unfortunate thing and my hand is being forced. I love the components I have and replacing them is out of the question.

Please direct me to the cleanest (from SQ POV) and best method to get tone controls. I don't mind if it is a software based hack or a not-very-expensive hardware fix.

Many thanks!

 

[hydra]

...
Also, I realized that the room is not perfectly square. I think it's closer to 12x11.

Then you're lucky A perfect square is supposed to be a nightmare in terms of room issues.

...
Since the room is dedicated to the stereo setup I can try the diagonal setup though I'm sure my wife will think I'm not playing with a full deck.

If she doesn't think that already you're not trying hard enough heh, heh.

 

[Bluu]

I am a fan of tone controls esp. defeatable ones and as much as it is bashed around, people have to realise that everything in your system is acting like a tone control. A caveat is that these have to be implemented properly and only some brands seem to do it better - usually higher end brands such as Carver, Bryston, Creek, McIntosh, ... So don't be influenced by the naysayers or so called purists!

Re: your issue, I would first look into room treatment as its the cheapest and quickest way of taming the imbalance. Also you will be surprised with some placement adjustments and the end results. Bi-amping is another option and so is NOT using bi-wiring if you have it setup currently. If all else fails an equaliser is probably some thing to look into. Lots of options there. Whats your budget

Thanks marsilians. I was hoping to not spend any money However, if you see my post above, I have found a nice EQ setup for the Squeezebox. In order of preference, this is what I plan to do:

1. Speaker and seating placement.
2. Room treatment.
3. Software EQ.

If all this fails, I can think of something else but to be honest, I hope to spend money on other parts of my system rather than on an EQ.

Then you're lucky A perfect square is supposed to be a nightmare in terms of room issues.



If she doesn't think that already you're not trying hard enough heh, heh.

Hahaha! Thanks!

 

[keith_correa]

and as much as it is bashed around, people have to realise that everything in your system is acting like a tone control.

Well not everything but generally - right said Fred.