Trying a headphone amplifier

murali

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
477
Points
63
Location
India
I have ordered a headphone amplifier, the PA2V2, with Gary of Electric-Avenues, to use with my new iPad and headphones (Sennheiser HD-598 and Audio Technica ATH-M50) after having read quite a lot about it. I plan to use it with a Fiio L3 or L9 LOD.
If the amp really proves worthwhile, I won't mind looking for a HD-650 in future. Anything else to suggest, equal or better than the 650 in that price range???
At the moment, I am not keen on a separate DAC for the iPad and am still trying to figure out what to do with its camera connection kit for audio.

Thanks.
murali
 
I have the HD650 which is great for the price. With higher moolah you do get better sound quality with Hifiman orthodynamics, Audeze LCD2, Sennheiser HD700, Sennheiser HD 800, Hifiman HE-6, Audeze LCD 3 and the Stax headphones however all these are quiet costly (from 40000 to 4 lacs).
 
Just an update. Somehow the PA2V2 deal fell through (problems in payment through Paypal). So I asked a colleague of mine (a Brit) to buy a Fiio E-11 amp for me during his home visit, along with a LOD cable.
Indeed, when my Senn HD-598 is connected from iPad through the Fiio using the LOD, the music really improves. All that muddiness is gone, vocals are clearer, there is a new clarity in the same music. The volume gain is more than adequate and it really makes the headphone sing. The Fiio appears to be an excellent product.
Now that the bug has caught, I have started scouting for a leap up in both the headphone and the amp. I am looking at the HD-650 as well as Beyer 880 Pro (250 ohm). Anything else I should consider for <$500? The Leckerton DAC+amp looks interesting for < $300.

Thanks and cheers.
murali
 
The Leckerton DAC+amp looks interesting for < $300.

It does indeed! I have my eye on this one, partly because it offers more than just USB input. I believe the guy's day job is working with implementation of the cirrus chip, so he must know the thing and how it interacts with the rest of the design very intimately.

Either this, or one of NwAvGuys combination of ODAC/amp, is on my list for improving my listening, much of which is on headphones these days.
I have the HD650 which is great for the price. With higher moolah you do get better sound quality with Hifiman orthodynamics, Audeze LCD2, Sennheiser HD700, Sennheiser HD 800, Hifiman HE-6, Audeze LCD 3 and the Stax headphones however all these are quiet costly (from 40000 to 4 lacs).
I've gone from not liking headphones at all to dreaming about Stax in a mere two years! By coincidence, I was reading about Audeze on a non-hifi site only the other day, and wondering if it could be as good as was being claimed.
 
murali, esanthosh on the forum has the Leckerton UHA series iirc.

As far as headphones go, you could look at the Fostex Thunderpants, Audio technica AD 900. I have had the former for some time and they were astounding ( even though I didnt have good amplification). Again, I have the AD 700s which are quite good for the money and the AD 900 I believe would build on it.

Edit: Thad, seeing that you are on the thread, you could post about your AD 900s, since you own them.
 
Only one problem. It is a bit weird when the music comes from behind your ears. Having been used to wonderful conventional front-of-you musical stage, I presume it is going to take a long time for me to get used to this!

But "here", where I miss my great conventional pieces, at least it gives me some comfort.

By the way, the Audio Technica 1000 wood model headphone looks fascinating and being talked about greatly.

murali
 
With headphones, I've only tried limited numbers, so my experience is definitely lacking. My knowledge is also very dated as I have not kept track of head-fi and related sites since last August.

Before I put a pause to my obsession, Anedio D2 / Nad M51 / Antelope Zodiac -> Cavalli LL / BHSE -> Stax SR-009 seemed like a good way to go (see High-End Electrostatic Headphone Amplifiers for the Stax SR-009 - YouTube). I thought DAC can be upgraded later on, but I have to spend on Stax headphone and amplifier anyways.

HD800 and EC Balancing Act was another option I considered. But, there are plenty of other amplifier options across price range for HD800. Other headphones that I thought of include Fostex TH-900. I had considered Beyer T1 seriously for a long time, but they seem inconsistent; so chances are that your T1 may sound different from mine. Audeze had build quality and weight issues and I thought their bamboo LCD-2 solved it somewhat, but have not followed it up. I also thought of Hifiman HE-6/HE-500 as alternatives to LCD-2. HE-6 is notoriously hard to drive, but HE-500 is much easier.

I think this was supposedly to be good as well: New Flagship from Audio-Technica: ATH-W3000ANV, 50th Anniversary Headphones.

That's where I wanted to go until I looked at my 'free to spend' bank balance :o. But, considering my interest is not what it used to be when it comes to spending on audio gear, I am sticking with my cheap combo of Leckerton UHA-6S MKI and HD600 / DT880 these days. Both headphones do better with DacMini CX -> Burson HA-160 as that combo gives them more power. Strangely, even though I think DacMini CX may be a better DAC than UHA-6S, I am more satisfied with UHA-6S than DacMini CX (little things that satisfy me + less glaring mistakes for my taste vs more things I find lacking compared to my ideal one-dac-amp-I-can-live-with-forver, perhaps). I'd put HD600 and DT880 in the 'good, better than many others, but not great' category in terms of SQ. Though I've not heard better headphones, I am just basing it on my experience in IEMs.

HD600 is good across genres, but it's not as detailed and not as 'lively' as I'd want (more like 'edgy when needed'). HD650 would be it's close cousin, adding more weight to the lows and mids while pushing treble a little back in the mix. DT880/600 is relatively brighter with a metallic timbre up top which might put off some, but it is more suited for my preferences than HD600. As far as build quality and comfort goes, HD6XX is much better, as you can replace each and every part individually right down to the drivers - a good option considering that it can last years and years as long as it's not mishandled. I've heard that HD650 is slightly harder to drive and hence will keep on improving with better amplification. HD600 is said to be relatively easier to drive and hence may not show such a wide variance with amplification. This may be the range to look at if you are upgrading from HD598.

Grado SR225 from what I hear is a good option (which I considered buying along with HD600 and DT880). But Grados are a love or hate kind of signature and they leak sound, so they may not fit everyone. The old discontinued Denon phones which were made by Fostex D2000/D5000/D7000 with or without mods (have not read up on the newer offerings, which did not look as good) are another option to consider if one has a liking for bass.

There are various Fostex T50 Mods (which can set you back by $400-600) : http://www.head-fi.org/a/fostex-t50rp-modification-summary-links-wiki, of which some I know liked LFF's mod (Inner Fidelity's measurements). Of course, there's our own Ortho thread.

I am sure that there are plenty more depending on your sound signature preferences and leniency with the budget. There are plenty of other options as well. You can look at 2012 Head-Fi Holiday Gift Guide (Over-Ear) - Head-Fi.org Community, but look past the sales pitch and read more on whatever you filter.

My 5 Zimbabwean dollars.
 
Last edited:
Edit: Thad, seeing that you are on the thread, you could post about your AD 900s, since you own them.
I had them with me when I met murali the other day, but they didn't come out for testing.

I have written about them before. They are the only 'phones I've owned, apart from some cheapo ones a while back, so I can't make intelligent comparisons. I was acting on a hfv member's recommendation to go for the 700s when I bought them, but audition proved that I could hear the difference in the 900s, and I would describe it as "air". Just a couple of years later, my own ears doing do "air" any longer, but they do still hear some differences in sound, so maybe I shouldn't be sad that I spent the extra money.

murali, if you want to audition, an invite will bring my 900s to your door for a trial any time.

Beware the Audio-Technica model numbers: some are open back, some are closed back, and we sometimes need more than just the final number to identify. Mine are the open back ATH AD900

From unreliable memory, I have the impression that reviews have put the 900 as best value in the range: it may not be worth spending the extra on the 1000s. They are actually quite good-looking anyway, without what might be a cosmetic thing of wood.

A really vital thing about headphones is that they be physically comfortable, and a lot of people forget this when buying. I could have got mine cheaper from Amazon, but I wanted to both hear and check the comfort rating of different 'phones. And, of course, once in the shop, want-it-now overcame online savings. So, at least trying mine will tell you if that entire series of models would be comfortable on your head.

Getting the sound from the back of your head to the front is a kind of mental trick: your imagination is capable of doing it! The soundstage still has a tendency to form an arc across the top of your head. There is an electronic trick called cross-fading that attempts to reproduce the time-delayed sound from left speaker to right ear, and right-speaker to left ear, bringing the perceived image in front of you. In software, I've found that it works, but the software degraded the sound. There are amps that do it, including some very sophisticated studio kit.
 
Last edited:
Anything else to suggest, equal or better than the 650 in that price range???

It takes a bit of time getting used to HD 650. Compared to many other "audiophile-grade" headphones HD 650 has a very different sound signature. It took me a long time and a change of lot of equipments to finally come terms with HD 650. But once you have been through this, 650 is an absolutely lovable phone. Hard to beat it in terms of SQ.

Only one problem. It is a bit weird when the music comes from behind your ears. Having been used to wonderful conventional front-of-you musical stage, I presume it is going to take a long time for me to get used to this!

That's the essence of portable audio. Yes, it's an entirely different experience. And for this very reason I place portable audio much ahead of conventional rigs. Even a basic portable rig put very expensive traditional setups to complete shame on any parameters. The sacrifices are the ability to deal with having something around your ear as well as being able to deal with an entirely new level of sound-stage experience.
 
Yeah, that is the problem. Having been used to sit as a listener in front of a musical stageshow, now I feel like sitting at the back as a curtain-raiser, hidden from the view! For short bursts, I don't mind.
More seriously, I am now really inclined to trying the HE-500, a different species compared to the HDs and DTs and ATHs. The 598 is quite good and it may be interesting to have one of the non-dynamic ones. Let me spend some more time contemplating.

Thanks to all and it is a real nice learning experience. From 8th, I will be "here" for a couple of weeks, too short a time to attend to several personal matters. I really hope to spend some time in front of my more conventional rig at home.

cheers.
murali
 
HE500 should be a good choice.
Do not go for the HE400 at any cost. Apart from bass it's a complete dud.
 
I was in Singapore last week, and pooped into Stereo in Singapura Plaza, where I bought my AD900*s a couple of years back. I was talking to one of the guys about the Audeze LCD2, which was on display, and he was really happy to let me try them, even though I protested that I was unlikely to be buying for about four years!

He plugged them into a DAC and headphone amp combo from Ifi, the iDAC and the iCAN (don't tell Apple!). I looked at the "3D" switch with doubt, suspecting some cheap trick, but flicked it to check it out and was amazed! I suppose that "3D holographic sound" is just their name for an implementation of cross-feed. I have only tried cross-feed in software, and, whilst the plugin I used does shift the sound forward, it does so at the expense of changing the dynamics of the sound and making it muddy. No such problem wit ifi. Not 'Iffy' at all! It really worked well.

Anyway, this was just a few minutes listening, not an audition at all, but the LCD2s and the ify stuff certainly made an impression (I did not try the LCD2s with anything else: for an audition, I would have taken my portable player along, to play well-known music from a well-known box).

Anybody else know ifi?



*Having recently tried the Audio Technicas with different amplification, I know that they have plenty of unexplored potentiality yet, so I'm quite happy to make their upgrade a long-term project. What I need first is the better DAC/amplifier to drive them with.
 
Last edited:
If portability is not a factor for you then you can check out the Bravo Audio Ocean tube amp. This little amp sound very good but not audiophile grade though. You can carry out some tweaks and replace the tubes to improve the sound further.
I have been changing my amplifiers from a long time now but finally stabilized with the Ocean, more or less. My previously owned list of amplifiers goes like this -
DIY CMoy amp > iBasso D Zero > iBasso D12 > Audio-GD NFB6 > FiiO E17 > Bravo Audio Ocean

Similarly, In the headphone section, I have finally stabilized with my Sennheiser HD600s. I love the natural presentation it produces.
The list of headphones which I have owned till now are as follows -
Koss Porta pro > Audio technica ATH M50 > Modded Fostex T50RP > HiFiMan HE400 > Sennheiser HD600

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Follow HiFiMART on Instagram for offers, deals and FREE giveaways!
Back
Top