UPS for AMP ?

[Sunderpalanivel]

Hi Guys,

Just want to check if any of you are using UPS for your HIFI AMP. I have an Naim 5i which sounds better if left powered on all the time, but unfortunately its not possible due to the frequent power cuts. So just wondering if it will be a good idea to have an UPS to overcome this issue. It will be great if anyone could help me with which UPS will be good and what type of UPS I should look at etc.

Thanks,
Sunder.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

search for smart ups here

 

[Staxxx]

I have been recommended by several manufacturers not to use a UPS with an amp. I am not an electrical engineer and therefore cannot exactly state why, but it has something to do with the headroom, I think and that the amps have enough protection built in. However, it does make me nervous of course.

 

[malvai]

buy an emerson liebert online ups... it is medical grade... and safe... it uses its battery to supply constant 230v and 50hz...

no fluctuations and constant voltage + frequency cycles...

i use it to power all my equipment. AND it makes a real difference. unclean power = bad sound...

and btw, i live in gurgaon where i have seen the voltage swinging between 130v and 278v....

the frequency is NEVER a full 50hz... on good days it is 48hz and at most times it is 45hz...

all in all enuff to KILL the amp... not to mention the sound.

 

[2chFreak]

For an amplifier, there's nothing better than to plug it in straight to the Wall. BUT .. Indian power esp. in certain metros & cities can be awful to an extent that it will FRY your amplifier.

bangalore power you'll have to access. Plugging it into an UPS is good safety but the ultimate dynamics are still cut short, no matter how much oversized the UPS may be. Or whether its on-line & so on.

Using UPS to power ON a Nait 5i will require reasonably a fair amount of battery backup in the UPS. Backup time for an UPS is expensive so do consider this point. 30min to 1 hr backup is fine as it allows you adequate time to shut-down your system properly on abrupt power blackouts.

But to keep an amp powered ON 24/7 when there's load shedding for a few hrs, the UPS can will mandate a good amount of backup time batteries in there.

 

[captrajesh]

Plugging it into an UPS is good safety but the ultimate dynamics are still cut short, no matter how much oversized the UPS may be. Or whether its on-line & so on.

Hmm, how about a power conditioner?

 

[sidvee]

I would recommend a servo stabilizer. I have been using one and having plugged my symphonic line both into the outlet direct vs the servo, I could not tell any difference (I have a dedicated line to my listening room from the MCB). Of-course this does not help when power is out (but if generator backup is available then it is a non issue).
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Sunderpalanivel]

Thanks Guys. Im relly worried if my equipments will be fried due to poor quality of main power, so looking at options , mostly I will be using UPS to keep the amp on standby mode when there is no power. How much will a reasonable online UPS cost ?

 

[reignofchaos]

I have been recommended by several manufacturers not to use a UPS with an amp. I am not an electrical engineer and therefore cannot exactly state why, but it has something to do with the headroom, I think and that the amps have enough protection built in. However, it does make me nervous of course.

Agreed! I have a 2 kVA APC Smart UPS and it seems to constrain the dynamics with the power amp plugged into it.

The source and preamp actually sound significantly better when fed through the UPS but I plug my power amp directly to a dedicated 15A line and wall socket pulled straight from the circuit breaker with no other device on that line.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thank god my amp was not plugged in the day we had live voltage on the neutral bar and 350 volts on the live . Thankfully, my UPS refused to pass this on to my computer.

hifi conditioning stuff is one thing: simple protection is another, and here, we need simple protection.

 

[corElement]

God knows when India will develop it's infrastructure. With the kind of politicians who promote regressive thinking and the people refusing to open their minds to think dynamically and greed driving those who are sitting on crores and crores of money there is little hope for any change for the next 50 years. One scam after another, reforms taking place after all the damage is done, population control being a topic of taboo, ugh.

Anyway back to topic,

Malvai has given the most practical solution and it is bound to work if it's working for him in gurgaon. Gurgaon is the target of ignorance by it's chief minister and he would let it crumble if he could and send all the money for infrastructure to his hometown if he could.
The city often does not have power for 12 hours a day and the voltage is always swinging between 120v and 280v.

If it works for him, it'll work for everyone. And he has a fairly demanding Accuphase that too.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

buy an emerson liebert online ups... it is medical grade... and safe... it uses its battery to supply constant 230v and 50hz...

no fluctuations and constant voltage + frequency cycles...

i use it to power all my equipment. AND it makes a real difference. unclean power = bad sound...

and btw, i live in gurgaon where i have seen the voltage swinging between 130v and 278v....

the frequency is NEVER a full 50hz... on good days it is 48hz and at most times it is 45hz...

all in all enuff to KILL the amp... not to mention the sound.

I agree. It is risky to run an amp without UPS. I had connected without UPS and i faced issues. The amp used to do a safety shutdown suddenly without any reason due to power fluctuations. If this would have happened regularly my amp would have been killed.

You just need to get an UPS which supplies voltage in a constant bracket, and you need to ensure that the UPS KVA rating is sufficient enough taking peak dynamics to consideration. Headroom is always good!!

However, I am not sure why one used for medical industry is needed and how different it is to a normal or smart UPS.

I have been recommended by several manufacturers not to use a UPS with an amp. I am not an electrical engineer and therefore cannot exactly state why, but it has something to do with the headroom, I think and that the amps have enough protection built in. However, it does make me nervous of course.

Amps do NOT have adequate protection!

Plugging it into an UPS is good safety but the ultimate dynamics are still cut short, no matter how much oversized the UPS may be.

Not true

Agreed! I have a 2 kVA APC Smart UPS and it seems to constrain the dynamics with the power amp plugged into it.

The source and preamp actually sound significantly better when fed through the UPS but I plug my power amp directly to a dedicated 15A line and wall socket pulled straight from the circuit breaker with no other device on that line.

How is this possible? Your mind and ears playing tricks on you

Thank god my amp was not plugged in the day we had live voltage on the neutral bar and 350 volts on the live . Thankfully, my UPS refused to pass this on to my computer.

hifi conditioning stuff is one thing: simple protection is another, and here, we need simple protection.

You nailed it!!
A little protection, will go a long long way.
In india voltage fluctuation is so damn common. 4 roads apart we have houses which have experienced 440V!!! They had a collection of appliances which were thrown to the garbage. We are further way from source and hence we are protected by voltage drops from the previous houses. In ours it tends to go to 270V.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

God knows when India will develop it's infrastructure. With the kind of politicians who promote regressive thinking and the people refusing to open their minds to think dynamically and greed driving those who are sitting on crores and crores of money there is little hope for any change for the next 50 years. One scam after another, reforms taking place after all the damage is done, population control being a topic of taboo, ugh.

India will start to *truly develop* its infrastructure once World bank, IMF stop giving phony infrastructure loans and let out central bank do what it's supposed to do, that is fund public infrastructure at free of cost...which is how the west obtained most of its public infrastructure which its citizens use for free. But we, no no...we need to get loans from world bank and let a private company set shop and create the infrastructure which is not free of cost. From this you can add up and see who has the biggest incentive of having corrupt politicians running India. Follow the money trail. Period!!
Entities like Swiss banks are just a tool to hide who is being paid how much from external sources.

 

[tirthankar]

How is this possible?

How is it NOT?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

With respect to malvai, there is a lot of nonsense talked about power and sound and, even if it was true that a UPS could affect the sound, isn't that better than a fried amplifier?

Amplifiers are engineered (or, so I read from engineers) to iron out any small stuff. As one such article that I read said, if a power cord can change the sound of your amplifier, you have an amplifier with one really lousy power supply unit.

But that's controversy, and although I still have not fulfilled my own protection plan (I have a UPS awaiting repair) I do intend to. Previous use of a smaller UPS showed that the amp was more damned sensitive than a PC, and would power off when the UPS switched. Nuisance, but I can't afford an online UPS, and nuisance will be better than dead amp.

Otherwise, the next planned power investment would be solar power to keep my PC corner running through the day. That gives me sound when I want it too. This is in the light of rumours that I hear from a reliable source that Chennai is not going to keep all of its positive discrimination, and will be getting more power cuts in the future.

 

[Staxxx]

I must say that I disagree with some of what Shaq.blog states. I did speak to Ballman of Behold (who has supplied other amplifiers to India) and he was unequivocal in not recommending a UPS or power conditioner for use here on this particular amp - which apparently has been built in. Since this is a very very expensive amplifier I hope he is correct

 

[malvai]

With respect to malvai, there is a lot of nonsense talked about power and sound and, even if it was true that a UPS could affect the sound, isn't that better than a fried amplifier?

Amplifiers are engineered (or, so I read from engineers) to iron out any small stuff. As one such article that I read said, if a power cord can change the sound of your amplifier, you have an amplifier with one really lousy power supply unit.

But that's controversy, and although I still have not fulfilled my own protection plan (I have a UPS awaiting repair) I do intend to. Previous use of a smaller UPS showed that the amp was more damned sensitive than a PC, and would power off when the UPS switched. Nuisance, but I can't afford an online UPS, and nuisance will be better than dead amp.

Otherwise, the next planned power investment would be solar power to keep my PC corner running through the day. That gives me sound when I want it too. This is in the light of rumours that I hear from a reliable source that Chennai is not going to keep all of its positive discrimination, and will be getting more power cuts in the future.

i agree... i find that on the Accuphase, power cord swapping did not make any differences... the result was much the same on the Krell FPB 200 power amp... as was on the Bryston 3bsst and 4 bsst2...

and really, i'd rather have an unfried amp.... personally, SQ wise, I prefer the cleaner sonics of the accuphase when powered through the online UPS....

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I did speak to Ballman of Behold (who has supplied other amplifiers to India) and he was unequivocal in not recommending a UPS or power conditioner for use here on this particular amp - which apparently has been built in. Since this is a very very expensive amplifier I hope he is correct

Maybe he wants to sell more! Blowing the amp with a power surge is surely not going to be covered by the warranty.

Never mind what these people do or do not recommend: we are talking about survival! You are quoting (I hope I'm safe in assuming) someone in Europe who would have no idea whatsoever about what we face in India, wherever they may have sold stuff to.

In (Urban, at least) Europe, power cuts are an event. Houses do not have three-phase supplies, and the supply is mostly underground. You do not get 440v on a socket because a crow has dropped a coat hanger on the local pole. It is an utterly different situation. And people there still grumble about spikes, brown-outs, dirty supply --- but what they think is bad would be dream electricity to us.

Do not listen to a guy in Europe, whose power may have gone off for an hour during a particularly bad storm last winter, about electricity.

Honestly, if you'd tried to tell me what I know now about our local electricity, even after I first came here, I'd have thought you were joking.

.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

The source and preamp actually sound significantly better when fed through the UPS but I plug my power amp directly to a dedicated 15A line and wall socket pulled straight from the circuit breaker with no other device on that line.

At the time i wrote my previous post, i read this differently in haste and hence my comment. Sorry bout that.

However, I still would like to know how everything sounded better with an UPS? Anyone?

Agreed! I have a 2 kVA APC Smart UPS and it seems to constrain the dynamics with the power amp plugged into it.

This should not happen if UPS with the required KVA is used. Would like to know what devices are connected to the UPS, what are they rated at (power rating at the back panel - VA rating would be better), and the power factor of each device.
I presume you have connected UPS to the 15 amps line and not the 5 amps.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

If a UPS with insufficient ability to supply power is used, it should soon start flashing errors and even shut down. I mistakenly plugged in a laser printer to a UPS outlet: the UPS would not start, I got nothing but the overload warning light.