Vintage Vs New Turntable Performance

[Selvin]

Hello FMs,

All we aware vintage turntables sing better than many entry level new turntables. What about the performance of mid-priced turntables like Rega RP3, Project RPM5, Project 2xperience Classic etc. when compare to a decent vintage table? Anyone have experience or listened side by side please share your views.

 

[Saket]

Hello FMs,

All we aware vintage turntables sing better than many entry level new turntables. What about the performance of mid-priced turntables like Rega RP3, Project RPM5, Project 2xperience Classic etc. when compare to a decent vintage table? Anyone have experience or listened side by side please share your views.

Hello Selvin,

Greetings!

You have owned a Rega in past, and some vintage turntables too. Why not start the thread sharing your own experience? My feeling is that vintage Japanese turntables are the best bang for the buck and a great way to start for the newbies. I am adding this point specifically because many newbies would spend 10-12K and get a turntable made of plastic which does not play music out of the vinyl, but just brings out the content of the record. This is a huge turn-off for the listeners as they had expected much better output in first place.

Even for serious listening, vintage TTs are a real value for money proposition.

Regards,
Saket

 

[Selvin]

Hello Selvin,

Greetings!

You have owned a Rega in past, and some vintage turntables too. Why not start the thread sharing your own experience?

Regards,
Saket

I had earlier a Sansui SR-333 and Project Debut III not Rega and was on the process to upgrade Rega RP3. In between I found my HMV player and started to listen on it. From my experience a decent vintage Japanese tables are better than many entry level tables. I didn't got chance to compare next level tables.

One thing I noticed on vintage table is tracking ability on warped records are very good.

 

[sunder]

Hello Selvin,

Greetings!

You have owned a Rega in past, and some vintage turntables too. Why not start the thread sharing your own experience? My feeling is that vintage Japanese turntables are the best bang for the buck and a great way to start for the newbies. I am adding this point specifically because many newbies would spend 10-12K and get a turntable made of plastic which does not play music out of the vinyl, but just brings out the content of the record. This is a huge turn-off for the listeners as they had expected much better output in first place.

Even for serious listening, vintage TTs are a real value for money proposition.

Regards,
Saket

Saket, vintage Japanese TTs are not only affordable and for newbies but also they are truly musical. one can differentiate about their performance between European and Japanese players only in single digit %, IMHO.
Cheers,
sunder.

 

[Saket]

Saket, vintage Japanese TTs are not only affordable and for newbies but also they are truly musical. one can differentiate about their performance between European and Japanese players only in single digit %, IMHO.
Cheers,
sunder.

Of course Sunder, thats why I said that even for serious listeners, it is great. They are really musical and since they reigned that era, there was a good reason to it!

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Sometime back I was visiting FM Santhosh at Bangalore and he had Mid Hi end Project with large acrylic platter(I don't remember the model number). He played a record on it and it was sounding awful. Very thin and lifeless. Mind you, he had some reputed cart on it.I saw that he had an old Pioneer PL 15 belt drive in the room. I predicted that whatever cart the Pioneer had, it would sound far better than the so call Hi end Project. My prediction was correct. There was so much more warmth and life when Pioneer was hooked on. The real competition for the Turntable market was in the 70's and every Japanese company had to compete with their rivals from Europe and from other Jap manufacturers and the turntables that they made were so much more superior than the new ones . Can you imagine how a Turntable Tone arm which has a rubber band as it's bearing support? Unfortunately many reputed brands of yester years have sold their brand names to some new owners who have completely ruined the reputation built up by those original owners over several decades. My vote goes fully for Vintage Turntables.

 

[reubensm]

Can't agree more. I've been through 2 modern belt drives and found them to be junk. I've never stopped using my SL3200 ever since. Technics turntables if in good working order and properly calibrated, can give all the modern turntables, a run for their money and beat them.

Sometime back I was visiting FM Santhosh at Bangalore and he had Mid Hi end Project with large acrylic platter(I don't remember the model number). He played a record on it and it was sounding awful. Very thin and lifeless. Mind you, he had some reputed cart on it.I saw that he had an old Pioneer PL 15 belt drive in the room. I predicted that whatever cart the Pioneer had, it would sound far better than the so call Hi end Project. My prediction was correct. There was so much more warmth and life when Pioneer was hooked on. The real competition for the Turntable market was in the 70's and every Japanese company had to compete with their rivals from Europe and from other Jap manufacturers and the turntables that they made were so much more superior than the new ones . Can you imagine how a Turntable Tone arm which has a rubber band as it's bearing support? Unfortunately many reputed brands of yester years have sold their brand names to some new owners who have completely ruined the reputation built up by those original owners over several decades. My vote goes fully for Vintage Turntables.

 

[Record Player]

Honestly, I've never heard any of the newer generation TTs. But I have seen a few (Denon and Lencos) and I tell you, just by the looks they were no where close to the Vintage TTs and surely dint look like they will sing some magic.

There aint nothing to beat the vintage set of TTs (ofcourse not all) and unless you have a huge budget to try the VPIs and stuff which are in a complete different league.

 

[reignofchaos]

If you want a nice modern TT, do not look at anything below a clear audio concept or Scheu cello or vpi traveler. Anything cheaper than these is junk.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

If you want a nice modern TT, do not look at anything below a clear audio concept or Scheu cello or vpi traveler. Anything cheaper than these is junk.

I fully agree on your views. The higher end modern TTs are supposed to be really good. My friend who is in Honk Kong told me TTs like Avid are superb.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Somewhere, I read, "The best turntable? It's the one you couldn't afford when you were 16... and you still can't afford it!"

I think that if you compare old and new on that basis, it might even the field a bit? Good turntables were always expensive. Also, there was always a lot of poor stuff too, that youngsters got their music on in nineteen-sixty-something.

 

[wlg]

I was a youngster in the 1960's, I remember we had a german Telefunken player, the cartridge had a clip to hold in place and the contacts were on the top, the cartridge was filled with some light grease which would ooze in summer, not tropicalized we were told.

 

[murali]

Hello FMs,

All we aware vintage turntables sing better than many entry level new turntables. What about the performance of mid-priced turntables like Rega RP3, Project RPM5, Project 2xperience Classic etc. when compare to a decent vintage table? Anyone have experience or listened side by side please share your views.

Below you will find the best and most practical view on this subject. Many of us have not ventured into this side for various reasons. At the same time, you will also find all those thrashings going on among some of the acclaimed gurus of vinyl in some other threads. We are not in America or Europe, but in India. Even the great vintage old car Ambassador has recently been phased out though many who still own them will always consider them as the most versatile and convenient car that can carry not only people but tons of luggage too. Technology has only gone forward like time. So my view is that if you have a reasonable budget for a TT, go for a modern one and if you are looking for bargain market, the other way. After all it is your money and your ears. People say so many things but treat them only as opinions and speculations. Good luck.

murali

Whether you have just inherited your first record collection or have decided to get into vinyl, there are a few things you should know regarding Old vs. New when it comes to shopping for your first turntable. The history of turntables is a long one, so it can be difficult to determine what is worth your time and money and what is just going to end up spinning at 33 headaches per minute. With a little knowledge you can make the right decisions to start enjoying those LPs and make sure they last for years.

There is no such thing a free table.

It is very easy to stop by any garage sale, thrift store, or used record shop and come across a very attractively priced record player ready for the taking, but ready for the taking doesnt always mean its ready for playing. When dealing with used tables its whats under the hood that counts. Many of them are more than 20 years old and are only getting older. Typically they will suffer from one, if not all of the following issues: motor speed problems, a worn stylus, improper weight and alignment calibration, failed or failing mechanics, stretched belts, and any other standard wear and tear their previous owner(s) subjected them to.

Before buying always think about the tables condition and how much work will be needed to get that second hand table sounding its finest. Its rare to find a vintage table that is going to do more good than bad to your vinyl when it is bought and used as is. Records get worn, and a poor quality table with an aged needle is only going to wear them out quicker. With so many different makes and models it is always best to get them serviced by a professional who is familiar with the brand before throwing your records on it. They can source out parts and give your table the proper attention it needs.

We all want to stretch a dollar, but suddenly that $50 bargain table has turned into a potential $200 worth of extra work. If you really want your records to last and your enjoyment to be maximized, spending a bit more money initially may mean a better overall listening experience.

Not all tables are, or were, created equal.

It is true that most vintage record players, given a little TLC, sound better than the $150 budget tables of today. Be wary of buying a turntable from the same place you buy your jeans! These modern day low cost tables are typically an all-plastic design with glued on parts, meaning finding a new cartridge or someone to service them is next to impossible. The build and sound quality just arent there. In fact, due to the short length of most of the tonearms and the lack of anti-skate, they are certainly damaging your records. Theyre selling a retro aesthetic that will only lead to disappointment down the road.

If you have given yourself a larger budget, dont get too caught up trying to find the audiophile Holy Grails such as the Thorens TD-124 or a Linn LP-12, amongst many others. A lot of these highly sought after tables will be overpriced and may not live up to the expectations given to them by their online reviewers. Turntable technology has advanced in the last 20 years and sound quality is subjective. With labour costs at an historic lows and the advancement of computer design and machining, it is now possible to get far higher quality for much less money than in the past.

Brands like Pro-Ject have entry-level hi-fi tables that can be had at the $300 mark and will produce crystal clear sound compared to their older counterparts.

Pro-Jects newest release, the Debut Carbon, retails for $449 and features upgraded bearings, a carbon fiber tonearm, and an upgraded motor suspension - all which help reduce resonance. It has a simple design with few moving parts meaning it will age with grace and also make it free from the rumble often found on dated tables. Not to mention it includes a $100 starting cartridge and comes in a wide variety of vibrant finishes making it one sleek looking, and sounding table. The equivalent table bought in 1980 would have cost $1000 in 1980s dollars! At $449 today, it is a bargain.

What is most important to you?

Some people will enjoy the research and personal investment of taking a used or hand-me-down table and making it their own. They are a great way to get your feet wet and learn about vinyl. If you have the patience, there are many sonically good tables readily available just in need of a little extra time and money to be refurbished.

New record players are the ultimate in convenience and reliability, plus the expectation of a new 30 year life span. You know exactly what you are getting and more often than not, you can even listen to them before buying at your local hi-fi shop. The initial investment will ensure years of trouble free listening and enjoyment.

Whatever you decide, do what is best for your budget, your records, and most of all your ears.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

What a splendid, down-to-earth and realistic article.

"Vinyl," as people call LPs these days is not a dream.