What is the secret of these speakers?

[rajafan]

I am a newbie to this forum but an oldie to Hi-Fi world.

In the 80s, I used to go to a tea shop to listen to my favourite music. Two boxy speakers were placed on a plywood sheet on a wooden pole. They had no tweeters. I assume they had only a 12” FR drivers. They were facing noisy road. That was the transition period from TT to cassette. I have heard them in both.

It is tough to explain the sound signature of those speakers in words. But let me try. The Drums, Tablas and Mridhangam are layered, bouncing, tight, deep and heavy. You can feel the slam of the mid bass in your chest. The lows. mids and highs are equal in volume without over powering one another. The tight, punchy and slamming mid bass is still ringing in my ears. I am looking for such a speaker for the last 20 years.

I have used the following in the past:-
FS : B&W, Klipsh, Tannoy, custom made
SW ; Velodyne, SVS, custom made
Amp : Parasound, Yamaha
CDP : Rotel, Marantz
BS : Swans
Multimedia : Logitech, Swans and IBall

I have auditioned the following in the past:-
FS : Wharfdale, Emotiva, Sonodyne
BS : Wharfdale, QA, NHT, Emotiva, JBL
SW : Wharfdale, Emotiva, SVS ported

I swear none of the above systems could produce the sound signature I am looking for.

My son is a headphone guy. To avoid hearing loss, I bought him an IBall speakers. I was not even bothered to read the specs as it costs less than a cable. Recently I disposed my stereo setup to start again in a clean slate. So I borrowed these speakers from my son and using it since a week in my 12x12 bedroom.

Here is the surprise. With little tweaking, these cheap IBall speakers precisely produce the sound signature I was looking for the last 20 years. It brings me the nostalgia of those tea shop speakers and my college days. Song after song, it reminds me of how much music I didn’t hear all these years from the same tracks I am very familiar with.

They are 3” FR satellites with a 6.5” SW. Yes, they lack power, sound stage and high quality bass but producing the tight and punchy mid bass without distorting the mids and highs.

Here are the specs.

Total Peak Output - 120 Watts
Driver Unit - Woofer - 16.5 cm (6.5), Satellite - 7.62 cm (3)
S/N Ratio - ≥70 dB
Frequency Response - 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz
Separation - ≥ 55 dB
Inputs - 2 x RCA | USB | SD / MMC | FM Radio
Output RMS* - 30 W (Woofer), 15 W (Each satellite)
Impedance - 4 Ohms
Distortion - ≤t 1% (1W, 1k

The specs don’t mention about the crossover and the slope. Satellites are sealed and SW is ported. The SW is playing an important role in producing this sound signature.

Can members make me understand the logic/science behind these little speakers producing such a sound singnature? I want to buy or build a pair of powerful speakers based on this.

 

[mpw]

Is this near field listening ?

 

[tusharshukla1991]

Is it Iball Tarang speakers? My friend in hostel had them and we used to listen pink Floyd and Eagles on them in him small hostel room and the sound was crisp and tight bass.

 

[tuff]

Welcome to the world of crossover less full range drivers !!!

I 'll say. Ravindra desai was also on the same trip. Full range do sound sweet.

 

[Hari Iyer]

rajafan, what you have described and experienced is a classic example of why people like or prefer more coloured sound over more natural sounding and clean sounding setups. It's a matter of taste and if you enjoy it then that's all that matters.

 

[Hiten]

They are 3” FR satellites with a 6.5” SW. Yes, they lack power, sound stage and high quality bass but producing the tight and punchy mid bass without distorting the mids and highs.

Difficult to say why you like that sound. 3 inch wide band and woofer is FAST (Full range assisted Subwoofer) system lots of people like them. Did the 12 inch woofer on Tea Stall had whizzer ? Whizzer elevates somewhat high mid frequency range. That may explain similarity of 3 inch Intex speaker and woofer combo. They lack High frequency though which we can not hear after certain age.
Regards.

 

[rajafan]

Is this near field listening ?

They are computer speakers but not designed as near fields. They have no tweeters and there is nothing to control the wide dispersion. They may sound near field due to the small 3” drivers. Mostly, I have been listening to them at around 5 feet distance.

Is it Iball Tarang speakers? My friend in hostel had them and we used to listen pink Floyd and Eagles on them in him small hostel room and the sound was crisp and tight bass.

Yes. IBall Tarang HiBass Red.

rajafan, what you have described and experienced is a classic example of why people like or prefer more coloured sound over more natural sounding and clean sounding setups. It's a matter of taste and if you enjoy it then that's all that matters.

With great respect, I disagree. I clearly described the sound signature in the second paragraph. A perfect instrument to describe that sound signature is Melam. You would have heard it live many times in marriage halls and temples. Standing just 5 feet away from it will produce the exact sound signature I described “layered, bouncing, tight, deep, heavy and slamming”

These little speakers produce everything except the slamming due to the nature of small drivers. Do you think a speaker that produces as close as possible to the natural sound is colored? I would like to know how differently it sounds in a setup you prefer. I have listened to Full Rangers from 8 to 15”, sealed, ported and open baffle. They have huge sound stage, superb mids and highs but lack the lows denying the natural slamming of the Melam.

I request you to suggest me few speakers which are essentially the scaled up model of these little speakers with more power, separation and clarity (though coloured in your perspective).

Difficult to say why you like that sound. 3 inch wide band and woofer is FAST (Full range assisted Subwoofer) system lots of people like them. Did the 12 inch woofer on Tea Stall had whizzer ? Whizzer elevates somewhat high mid frequency range. That may explain similarity of 3 inch Intex speaker and woofer combo. They lack High frequency though which we can not hear after certain age.
Regards.

It was a single 12" driver. Moreover, I don't have the expertise on the technical aspect of speakers.

I have a huge collection from the 80s and 90s. I heard them in their original glory as and when the records/ cassettes were released. I have listened to each of the songs for a minimum of 500 times in the last 30 years. I am very familiar with the nuances and intricacies of these tracks. These little speakers produce as close as possible to the original. All I want is a scaled up model with more clarity, power and separation. Please let me know if you have any recommendation.

 

[reachkalyan.kr]

It was a single 12" driver. Moreover, I don't have the expertise on the technical aspect of speakers.

I have a huge collection from the 80s and 90s. I heard them in their original glory as and when the records/ cassettes were released. I have listened to each of the songs for a minimum of 500 times in the last 30 years. I am very familiar with the nuances and intricacies of these tracks. These little speakers produce as close as possible to the original. All I want is a scaled up model with more clarity, power and separation. Please let me know if you have any recommendation.

May be somebody can pitch in what is your source these many days.
Not able to make out in your discussion .btw what is your source now ?
Whats was your hearing distance earlier and now.
strongly believe something you are missing here.IMHO

 

[arj]

@yogibear , do panel speakers sound similar to this in terms of experience ?

 

[rajafan]

rajafan, what you have described and experienced is a classic example of why people like or prefer more coloured sound over more natural sounding and clean sounding setups. It's a matter of taste and if you enjoy it then that's all that matters.

Let me give you another example. In my observation, Tabla has four layers of sound.

1. First layer is tinny highs
2. Second layer is wooden mids
3. Third layer is mid bass
4. Fourth layer is bass

There are different type of Tablas with different sound and dynamics. But in general, they have prominent frequency range from 70hz to 7Khz with 70 to 200 playing important role.

The speakers I have used and auditioned have certain characteristics. Few can produce 1 and 2, few 1 and 4, few 2 and 4. The FR drivers can produce 1,2 and 3 but lacking in 4.

But these little speakers produce all 4. It brings the whole body of music making me to crack my head and wanting me to upscale this model.

May be somebody can pitch in what is your source these many days.
Not able to make out in your discussion .btw what is your source now ?
Whats was your hearing distance earlier and now.
strongly believe something you are missing here.IMHO

I had a collection of original cassettes released in the 80s and 90s. Now I have them in digital format. If not all, most of them sound good and comparable to the originals. So no worries on that part.

Since I was not happy with branded ones, I made a custom towers and SW when I was living in US. Those guys visited my place, measured everything including some acoustic readings. They made a custom 2 way towers and a SW. They were powered by Parasound Halo Integrated with Rotel CDP. They were not perfect but came close to my needs.

Recently I auditioned many in Chennai. Utter dismay.

Please read two of my replies to Hari Iyer to get the whole picture and the right context.

Very well said. And when above words come from the Person who has owned the B&W, Klipsh, Tannoy, custom made, Velodyne, SVS, custom made, then its a Huge and dependable Disclosure !!!

The first step towards dis-coloration of sound, is the amp looking at the full range directly. Yes, such setups do lack the bass slam and hence the 2 way (OB in my case) present a beautiful sound. It has to be experienced, cannot be explained in just words. I have experienced 6.5" to 15" full range drivers, almost none needing a tweeter. I have so far tended towards the "8 inchers " which seem to have the best of both worlds of full range sound.

Goosebumps, "Wah Wah Wah", Oh my God ..... are some of the "skin orgasms" I have felt with some well recorded tracks.

Hope you will help me in achieving my dream

 

[tuff]

@rajafan See if you can listen to Magnaplanar's. Dunno who might have them in your area. But you have to listen to planars once.

 

[Kannan]

@rajafan Is it possible to listen to these speakers. I stay in Anna Nagar

 

[rajafan]

@rajafan See if you can listen to Magnaplanar's. Dunno who might have them in your area. But you have to listen to planars once.

hmmm... In my knowledge, the only place I can visit is Thane.

 

[tuff]

Anytime.

 

[rajafan]

@rajafan Is it possible to listen to these speakers. I stay in Anna Nagar

It is a pleasure to demo these little speakers to a seasoned expert. I have some doctor appointment for a laser surgery. Let me know the schedule and will PM you. Thank you.

 

[rajafan]

I can try and share my experience so far. Its not a showoff but I do have a collection of more than over a dozen pairs of some very nice full range drivers. A few have not been played even once so far.........

Thank you. Let us have a chat over phone in coming days.

 

[Kannan]

It is a pleasure to demo these little speakers to a seasoned expert. I have some doctor appointment for a laser surgery. Let me know the schedule and will PM you. Thank you.

I am no seasoned expert. The array of equipment you have used is way beyond my level of experience.
Any time except Fridays and Saturdays is ok by me. I will PM you my number. We can coordinate.

Cheers

 

[arj]

If you mean boxed speakers, then why not. The magic lies between getting the sound right from top down to 200Hz. Some great speakers with just the right crossovers to take care of lobing etc, even in cabinets do sound great.

However the notion of a passive crossover before a full range driver starts making me uncomfortable...... Add a bass driver to it for the low end and you stop feeling if anything in missing.

The experience is a wall of sound, and some of say it approximates to the ESL speakers.... I don't know, I have never listened to any. But if the horns bring all the instruments around you, spaced out that you can physically grab them, then yes, I do have the same exact feeling.

I actually meant to write Planars ! do they simulate a crossoverless, single driver ?

 

[Hiten]

It was a single 12" driver. Moreover, I don't have the expertise on the technical aspect of speakers.

I have a huge collection from the 80s and 90s. I heard them in their original glory as and when the records/ cassettes were released. I have listened to each of the songs for a minimum of 500 times in the last 30 years. I am very familiar with the nuances and intricacies of these tracks. These little speakers produce as close as possible to the original. All I want is a scaled up model with more clarity, power and separation. Please let me know if you have any recommendation.

That's what I am saying; to look for 12 inch or the F.A.S.T. (Intex type) commercial speakers. That way you have good chance of getting same sound signature. I forgot some commercial speakers do have F.A.S.T. types of 2 way speakers Will search and Post. However buying without listening will be dicey affair. So other option will be to visit forum members who have such speaker/s. As for 3inch + SW, We had such speakers (Pioneer) in early 80s. And I swear they sounded good. It only had a resistor and capacitor as crossover and all the people/friends who listened to it at my home liked them. So there is something special about single 12 inch OR 3inch+SW combination.
Best Regards.

 

[Kannan]

I am no longer able to pin point the source of sound.

I understand what you meant by not able to pin point the sound, and the disappearance of the speakers.

But just a little broader explanation as I have come to understand sound quality:
The speakers should never disappear, they should just produce a big sound stage without clutter to fill the space to their sides and and rear.
There are some clearly identifiable spots in the sound stage. The center front (bang between both the speakers and at a good height), the center rear (bang between both the speakers and at a good height and depth extending up to the back wall) and to the end of the back wall), the left image (the spot exactly where the left speaker is) , the right image (the spot where the right speaker is), the left extreme (the left wall boundary) and the right extreme (the right wall boundary).
Once you achieve the above rest of the separation will automatically fall into place.
The above will also mean that both the speakers are phase coherent and reasonably placed to suit the shape and size of the room.
"THE ROOM" is sadly the most critical and the most ignored part.
Apart from the overall tonality of your speakers, subjective to the chain of the equipment, the room majorly also adds to it.
Being in a rented house, I don't have the liberty to fiddle with much of acoustics, so for me it is a struggle to find the best spot to isolate the room to the maximum to get the best sound stage and tonality (as produced by my chain). As I am old school, I don't like any kind of digital (equalizer) or analogue (tone) correction.

So though it is nice to talk about speaker disappearance etc. technically it is not correct, our ears are not attuned to it. Ears like sound that is in phase which means the speakers are there...and not 'NOT THERE'.