What makes these Sherwood turntables not good?

[anujmishra]

PS: This is long post. If you want to cut it short, please move to last two paragraphs.

I had long cherished dream of setting up turntable at my home. I was researching in this direction and suddenly, I had to move out of India due to work requirements.

I wanted a decent TT setup which sounds good. I started collecting LPs from various sources but did not find any good turntable in India to start with. I did not want to go with first basic turntables like Denon DP-29F. I wanted one which actually keep alive my creativity.

I also built Subwoofer for my moderate HT setup and it was fun doing all DIY. I agree that I do not have 100% knowledge of all aspects of TTs but I am learning through HFV, other forums and various websites.

In my near and dear ones nobody have such interest. So, I cannot discuss these things with them. Most of them laugh, when sometimes it come out of my mouth about my desire to have a(may be more :lol decent Turntable . I tend to ignore their words immediately. When all these things happening with me, one fine day I had to move out of India for some short duration and due to various engagements I gave it low priority of the moment. I was even not visiting HFV and other forums. HFV always showing me embarrassing message (Hello anujmishra, it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks...).

Still, I am abroad (South Korea to be precise) but I cannot keep my this desire sleeping for long. I again started hunting for decent turntable. Yes, I wanted to start with some decent Technics TT. I started hunting local Flea markets. I found some but those where exorbitantly priced. Around $700 for no so good condition. I can get one from ebay at much lesser price, but I will order only after returning to India.

Locally, I found Sherwood PM-9905 and 9905E turntables. By look, it seems exact copy of Technics SL1200 MK2 but in plastic body. It has all those bells & whistles which makes me to upgrade its cartridge in future for better sound quality. Price is around US$180. Sherwood is 100% owned company of Inkel corporation of Korea.

Here is some Korean blogs about it. Please open it in chrome browser for automatic translation to English.

rainism&sunism=young :: ??? ?? ???? ???? PM-9905
??????? ??? - ????(Sherwood) PM-9905E : ????? ?????
Here is some Youtube Video: sherwood pm-9805 +NAD Phono Preamp PP 2i [Mario Balaguer - Rock Con Roll] - YouTube

And here is the listing of these TTs in local ebay (gmarket) website.
Gmarket - [??] PM-9905E[??] ??(???) AUX? ???? ??...

As per various threads in this section and opinion from experts. There is one thing called "Build Quality". But actually in TT the sound quality is dependent on cartridge, stylus, phono pre amps etc. Which I think, If I buy Sherwood PM-9905E, it is in my hand to upgrade in future. This TT provides all means to upgrade. It is not fixed kind of TTs. This is my understanding.

Now, my questions to experts. Why do you advice to keep away from these TTs? What are exactly your points? Is that weight of TT (8 - 14 Kg) matters most in quality?

Please advise for these questions.

 

[peace_sells]

Now, my questions to experts. Why do you advice to keep away from these TTs? What are exactly your points? Is that weight of TT (8 - 14 Kg) matters most in quality?

Please advise for these questions.

Ok now I'm no expert by any means but from what I've learnt (thanks to HFV FMs)..the heavier the TT, lesser the disturbance and noise you'd hear due to rumble. If you look at the specs of TTs..the heavier ones have a rumble of less than -70/-80db. If the rumble specs are anything more than -60db then the TT is not good for 'listening'. Also the heavier the platter, steadier is the speed. Anyway that's one way of looking at it. Lets see what other FMs have to say about this.

And for 180$ i think you'll get good Technics direct drives.

 

[Saket]

Being all things same, like the cartridge, stylus, preamp, amp & speakers, still the sound will be impacted by different turntables themselves. Firstly, there are different drive methods: Idler drives, belt drives & direct drives. Each have their own sound signatures, virtues & disadvantages over each other. That is a different debate altogether and in any one tt, you can have only a single drive system, and each drive systems have a lot of spectacular turntables under their name. But the two most important issues in my opinion that any turntable should have are:

1. Speed
2. Damping.

By speed, I don't only mean a pitch perfect 33.33 RPM. The drive should have torque & linearity so that high volume passages do no result in drop in speed due to the stylus drag. Good torque means that the table attains the proper speed quickly from rest and the bass remains tight & crisp even in tough passages. Linearity is surely important as you don't want those unwanted wow & flutter issues.

Second aspect is damping. The heavy the turntable, by rule, should be better damped from external vibrations, esp coming from the speakers. Heavy Platter is again sorted after as it not only contributes towards using the intertia for keeping the speed smooth, but also damps the vibrations coming from the playing record which is placed on it. For eg. a platter that 'rings' with the metallic sound is not what you will want in your turntable. This is where belt & idler drives score over the direct drives as the platter is well damped from the vibrations due to rubber; either around or beneath them. This certainly does not mean that Direct drives are inferior, it is just that they offer other things that are lacked by other drive systems.

If you ignore these two aspects, then every turntable is just as good as the stylus & cartridge it has; but there is much more to it; of which you now probably have at least a glimpse of. There is certainly a lot to it, you can explore the subject with further readings.

Regards,
Saket

 

[anujmishra]

Second aspect is damping. The heavy the turntable, by rule, should be better damped from external vibrations, esp coming from the speakers. Heavy Platter is again sorted after...

So, the drive system, speed, damping etc. matters. I agree about it. But to what extent? These turntables weighs around 4.8 Kgs and have belt drive system. I think belt drive system help to reduce the vibration of platter to the extent. However, this cannot be universally true.

Now, question is how much weight is ideal for a high quality TT?

 

[sachu888]

So, the drive system, speed, damping etc. matters. I agree about it. But to what extent? These turntables weighs around 4.8 Kgs and have belt drive system. I think belt drive system help to reduce the vibration of platter to the extent. However, this cannot be universally true.

Now, question is how much weight is ideal for a high quality TT?

My Lenco's platter weighs 4kg.Generally idler drives have heavy platters than belt drive or DDs.Weight isn't the only criteria for better tt.There are few more important things:
1. Bearing
2. Tonearm
3. Platter
4. Motor
A TT is a very simple machine with very few parts,but they should be very good quality else you will not get good sound,no matter how hard you try.You can get a decent used vintage TT in this price but you may have to wait for the opportunity.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[bhaskarcan]

...........

And for 180$ i think you'll get good Technics direct drives.

+1. There are many other time tested and accepted "good" vintage TT's in that price range.

This Sherwood is a belt drive and performance is quite ok (depending on your full chain). I have one with me and it is not bad if you get it cheap. For 180$ IMHO there are much better vintages on the bay.

Bhaskar

 

[kuruvilajacob]

If you search the many postings on this forum regarding old rugged TTs made in the 80's and 70's, you will read many Forum members agreeing that these are better sounding than the new ones. I fully endorse this view. I also had a Sherwood TT which looked far better than a Techis SL 1210 but the moment you listen to it, it will not come anywhere near a 1210. One can easily get a decent Direct Drive in India for around Rs 12K and I always tell those who ask me about buying one of these new entry level TTs, to stay away from buying them

 

[anujmishra]

Yes, I fully endorsed your view. When I see the TTs in ebay, it is priced insanely high. Some of them which I like goes upto $400 with shipping+custom. My first choice would always be Technics (1200 or 1210). But I am not finding the deal.

Also, sachu & others bought Lenco TTs recently. I like those as well but I cannot find source of these TTs.

Someone, give me pointer (help) how to locate these TTs. I am ready to pay, If I get decent TTs coming in my way. I am ready to spend 12K immediately If I get these direct drives in India.

 

[reubensm]

Yes, I fully endorsed your view. When I see the TTs in ebay, it is priced insanely high. Some of them which I like goes upto $400 with shipping+custom. My first choice would always be Technics (1200 or 1210). But I am not finding the deal.

Also, sachu & others bought Lenco TTs recently. I like those as well but I cannot find source of these TTs.

Someone, give me pointer (help) how to locate these TTs. I am ready to pay, If I get decent TTs coming in my way. I am ready to spend 12K immediately If I get these direct drives in India.

It is difficult to locate these TTs in India, even if you do, they are insanely priced, however on the bright side, it is easier to find an IT professional, BPO professional or a relative who can hand carry one of these from the Western World