Where is music stored during recordings in studio

[Vivek Batra]

Hi FMs

This question came to my mind and I tried to search but couldn't find any straight forward answer to this, so here it is.

My curosity is during a recording session where is the music stored? On hard drives/tapes/something else?

1. What is the source from where Vinyls are produced?
2. I believe the same source is used to make CDs but at some fixed resolution?
3. If its stored on hard drives, then its already digital? Since sound is an analog signal originally and this has already been digitized?


Any clarity on this would open up my mind.

Thanks.

Regards
Vivek

 

[amit11]

Nice question. What i have read is until 1990 approximate the "master" used to be stored on tapes. And after 1900 the switch happened to hard disks.
Lot of mixing and lot of editing is done repeatedly these days, after the original recording, and i think that is only possible if the music is stored in digital format. The resolution / bits/ sampling rate is obviously very high and later from that any analog storage medium can be prepared be it vinyl/tape etc or cd or any other digital format or conversion. Vinyl would be mostly prepared later, either from the master tape or the hard disk.

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
My curosity is during a recording session where is the music stored? On hard drives/tapes/something else?
<snip>

@prem is one of the guys on the forum who can possibly articulate this well.
Let's see if he can give us a simple history lesson.

Cheers
Raghu

 

[Vivek Batra]

Nice question. What i have read is until 1990 approximate the "master" used to be recorded on tapes. And after 1900 the switch happened to hard disks.
Lot of mixing and lot of editing is done repeatedly these days, after the original recording, and i think that is only possible if the music is stored in digital format. The resolution / bits/ sampling rate is obviously very high and later from that any analog storage medium can be prepared be it vinyl/tape etc or cd or any other digital format or conversion.

Hi Amit
Thanks for some light on this. Well to me if it's stored digitally then we can associate bit depth with it not sampling rate because it's the source. So it's possible that even the vinyls made from THIS source ain't as good may be. This way the digital format is again converted to analog.

Lets wait for some more info on it.

 

[anilpatel]

@Vivek Batra sir, you have raised the best questions that i have been looking for.
I have some other questions also.
Recently I have downloaded 32 bit with 96 Khz frequency song of size ranging from 200MB to 400 MB.
Those were originally ripped from vinyls.
So what will be the size of original recorded songs?
What are the number of bits and frequency of those songs?

Eagerly waiting for the answers to above questions?

 

[amit11]

Recently I have downloaded 32 bit with 96 Khz frequency song of size ranging from 200MB to 400 MB.
Those were originally ripped from vinyls.
So what will be the size of original recorded songs?
What are the number of bits and frequency of those songs?

It depends what was the "master". either tape OR hard disk.

If the song was before 1990, chances are "master" was tape. Out of this tape, vinyl was prepared and customers purchased it. And by playback of vinyl, somebody prepared a digital out of it. OR, some great person played the "master" tape and prepared digital out of it.
If the song was post 1990, chances are "master" was harddisk. We can assume here that the bits/frequency etc were quite high. Out of this harddisk, the vinyl was prepared.

 

[raghupb]

@Vivek Batra sir, you have raised the best questions that i have been looking for.
I have some other questions also.
Recently I have downloaded 32 bit with 96 Khz frequency song of size ranging from 200MB to 400 MB.
Those were originally ripped from vinyls.
So what will be the size of original recorded songs?
What are the number of bits and frequency of those songs?

Eagerly waiting for the answers to above questions?

Before expecting magic please try to understand how these many number of bits and sampling rate can come together.
It may or may not work in your rig.
Here is a link that explains it well enough (at least I could understand it).

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Bhaskar Jyoti Talapatra]

Hi Amit
Thanks for some light on this. Well to me if it's stored digitally then we can associate bit depth with it not sampling rate because it's the source. So it's possible that even the vinyls made from THIS source ain't as good may be. This way the digital format is again converted to analog.

Lets wait for some more info on it.

Hi
Vivek
I have almost the same idea as you have. Practically the old vinyls sound much better than the newly released vinyls of old Bollywood movie songs. I have bought some newly pressed vinyls but those aren't as good as the old vinyls that I have. The reason is perhaps what you have guessed. Once those were made taking recording on tapes. Later , may be from 1990 those were digitised, kept in hard disk and with vinyl resurgence those digitised versions are again used to make vinyls. Hence the bad or average SQ. I can give an example here. I have both the super seven EP of Sholay and an LP which I bought last year. That EP sounds better than that new LP.
Regards

 

[Vivek Batra]

@Vivek Batra sir, you have raised the best questions that i have been looking for.
I have some other questions also.
Recently I have downloaded 32 bit with 96 Khz frequency song of size ranging from 200MB to 400 MB.
Those were originally ripped from vinyls.
So what will be the size of original recorded songs?
What are the number of bits and frequency of those songs?

Eagerly waiting for the answers to above questions?

Sir is not required

 

[firearm12]

Studio analog recordings would be done on physical master tapes before digital era. Same as video was done done on physical film format. The recordings were mastered so that they can be fit for vinyl format. some frequencies were have to be rolled off carefully so that vinyls could play those songs some dynamics have to be compressed . Even in very old times the recording equipment could not record full frequency spectrum. Thats the reason most of old bolly wood songs are vocal specific as they were not able to record bass and treble , music directors and recording emgineers had to take the limitations into account for recording songs.master tapes had to be archived somewhere.

As technology improved and especially after digital era most companies started recording digitally. Means they did not have to afford tapes and softwares could be easily used to edit songs, frequency limitations vanished and dynamics and sound quality improved. Now a days most recordings are stored in digital format, most probably studio keeps the original data in encrypted harddisks.

This was easy part but problem.comes when we know that all audio is analog. This means while recording digitally analog to digital converters are used and while playback digital to analog conversion is needed. So the quality of digitally stored music depends on adc while recording and dac while playback. Any song which was recorded in old era had to be converted to digital using adc's . a vinyl rip will depend on quality of adc and turntable. any digital music which needs to be converted to vinyl formal goes through a dac and then to physical media. So digital is a huge boon to ease of use and storage but there is involved conversion in process that makes dac compaines gather huge amount of money from customers. Original cd format used 16bit 44.1 khz but nowadays studios record in 24 bit or 32 bit. I bet under normal circumstnces if someone is able to figure quality difference between these formats.

New vinyls for old songs may not have that good quality because we dont know the source from where the pressing is made. I have heard many master tapes of saregama got lost in some fire in their premises couple of decades back,. But if someone makes a digital recording of old songs from original master tapes using good adc's it will be very good.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Studio analog recordings would be done on physical master tapes before digital era. Same as video was done done on physical film format. The recordings were mastered so that they can be fit for vinyl format. some frequencies were have to be rolled off carefully so that vinyls could play those songs some dynamics have to be compressed . Even in very old times the recording equipment could not record full frequency spectrum. Thats the reason most of old bolly wood songs are vocal specific as they were not able to record bass and treble , music directors and recording emgineers had to take the limitations into account for recording songs.master tapes had to be archived somewhere.

As technology improved and especially after digital era most companies started recording digitally. Means they did not have to afford tapes and softwares could be easily used to edit songs, frequency limitations vanished and dynamics and sound quality improved. Now a days most recordings are stored in digital format, most probably studio keeps the original data in encrypted harddisks.

This was easy part but problem.comes when we know that all audio is analog. This means while recording digitally analog to digital converters are used and while playback digital to analog conversion is needed. So the quality of digitally stored music depends on adc while recording and dac while playback. Any song which was recorded in old era had to be converted to digital using adc's . a vinyl rip will depend on quality of adc and turntable. any digital music which needs to be converted to vinyl formal goes through a dac and then to physical media. So digital is a huge boon to ease of use and storage but there is involved conversion in process that makes dac compaines gather huge amount of money from customers. Original cd format used 16bit 44.1 khz but nowadays studios record in 24 bit or 32 bit. I bet under normal circumstnces if someone is able to figure quality difference between these formats.

New vinyls for old songs may not have that good quality because we dont know the source from where the pressing is made. I have heard many master tapes of saregama got lost in some fire in their premises couple of decades back,. But if someone makes a digital recording of old songs from original master tapes using good adc's it will be very good.

Well explained. Thanks

 

[Nitin K]

Hi FMs

This question came to my mind and I tried to search but couldn't find any straight forward answer to this, so here it is.

My curosity is during a recording session where is the music stored? On hard drives/tapes/something else?

1. What is the source from where Vinyls are produced?
2. I believe the same source is used to make CDs but at some fixed resolution?
3. If its stored on hard drives, then its already digital? Since sound is an analog signal originally and this has already been digitized?


Any clarity on this would open up my mind.

Thanks.

Regards
Vivek

Hi Vivek,

For the sound recordings that I have gone, the sound engineer used pro tools on the comp. The recording mix/unmixes used to be saved on the computer hard disk in digital wav format. This was approx around 8 years ago so I don't know if the software/hardware have changed. These jingles were for TV commercials & few times certain bollywood music directors have used the services of these sound engineers in the same studio, hence assuming the same tools were used.
Basically the source is captured, edited & stored in the digital format at least in such studios. I am not aware if it is done in some other way at other recording studios.

Regards,
Nitin

 

[anilpatel]

Studio analog recordings would be done on physical master tapes before digital era. Same as video was done done on physical film format. The recordings were mastered so that they can be fit for vinyl format. some frequencies were have to be rolled off carefully so that vinyls could play those songs some dynamics have to be compressed . Even in very old times the recording equipment could not record full frequency spectrum. Thats the reason most of old bolly wood songs are vocal specific as they were not able to record bass and treble , music directors and recording emgineers had to take the limitations into account for recording songs.master tapes had to be archived somewhere.

As technology improved and especially after digital era most companies started recording digitally. Means they did not have to afford tapes and softwares could be easily used to edit songs, frequency limitations vanished and dynamics and sound quality improved. Now a days most recordings are stored in digital format, most probably studio keeps the original data in encrypted harddisks.

This was easy part but problem.comes when we know that all audio is analog. This means while recording digitally analog to digital converters are used and while playback digital to analog conversion is needed. So the quality of digitally stored music depends on adc while recording and dac while playback. Any song which was recorded in old era had to be converted to digital using adc's . a vinyl rip will depend on quality of adc and turntable. any digital music which needs to be converted to vinyl formal goes through a dac and then to physical media. So digital is a huge boon to ease of use and storage but there is involved conversion in process that makes dac compaines gather huge amount of money from customers. Original cd format used 16bit 44.1 khz but nowadays studios record in 24 bit or 32 bit. I bet under normal circumstnces if someone is able to figure quality difference between these formats.

New vinyls for old songs may not have that good quality because we dont know the source from where the pressing is made. I have heard many master tapes of saregama got lost in some fire in their premises couple of decades back,. But if someone makes a digital recording of old songs from original master tapes using good adc's it will be very good.

Thanks for sharing the valuable information.

 

[anilpatel]

Before expecting magic please try to understand how these many number of bits and sampling rate can come together.
It may or may not work in your rig.
Here is a link that explains it well enough (at least I could understand it).

Cheers,
Raghu

Thanks for sharing such a nice explaining youtube link.

 

[anilpatel]

It depends what was the "master". either tape OR hard disk.

If the song was before 1990, chances are "master" was tape. Out of this tape, vinyl was prepared and customers purchased it. And by playback of vinyl, somebody prepared a digital out of it. OR, some great person played the "master" tape and prepared digital out of it.
If the song was post 1990, chances are "master" was harddisk. We can assume here that the bits/frequency etc were quite high. Out of this harddisk, the vinyl was prepared.

Thanks a lot for clarifying the doubts.

 

[Kapeel]

This is what I know

A) Up until the digital era - say circa early 1980's
- Studio's recorded and stored music on analog equipment / tapes
- Vinyls pressed during this time were all analogue

B) From I guess early 80 until 1995 - start of digital age
- Recording labels such a Universal / Sony transferred/copied analog tapes to digital media, primarily for long term storage
- This was a period when both vinyl and CDs coexisted with the CDs gradually becoming popular

C) Circa 1995 to I guess 2010
- Decline in the popularity of Vinyl as a medium of music reproduction
- Recording studios used digital equipment for recording and obviously storage
- All the Vinyls pressed during this period are mostly digital reproductions

D) Re-Birth of Vinyls
- With renewed interest in vinyls/analogue reproduction, studios these days are releasing vinyls pressed from (1) old tapes recorded during the analogue era which have survived and available (2) specially mastered analogue vinyls i.e. the source is digital but is mastered for analogue reproduction for ex. Analogue productions/MFSL will release a 60/70s album in both vinyl and SACD which sound different because they are remastered for the particular medium of reproduction.
- Vinyls from the analogue era are either (1) reissues meaning the source is an analogue tape (2) remastered, reissues i.e. source is digital but remastered for analogue reproduction

 

[Vivek Batra]

This is what I know

A) Up until the digital era - say circa early 1980's
- Studio's recorded and stored music on analog equipment / tapes
- Vinyls pressed during this time were all analogue

B) From I guess early 80 until 1995 - start of digital age
- Recording labels such a Universal / Sony transferred/copied analog tapes to digital media, primarily for long term storage
- This was a period when both vinyl and CDs coexisted with the CDs gradually becoming popular

C) Circa 1995 to I guess 2010
- Decline in the popularity of Vinyl as a medium of music reproduction
- Recording studios used digital equipment for recording and obviously storage
- All the Vinyls pressed during this period are mostly digital reproductions

D) Re-Birth of Vinyls
- With renewed interest in vinyls/analogue reproduction, studios these days are releasing vinyls pressed from (1) old tapes recorded during the analogue era which have survived and available (2) specially mastered analogue vinyls i.e. the source is digital but is mastered for analogue reproduction for ex. Analogue productions/MFSL will release a 60/70s album in both vinyl and SACD which sound different because they are remastered for the particular medium of reproduction.
- Vinyls from the analogue era are either (1) reissues meaning the source is an analogue tape (2) remastered, reissues i.e. source is digital but remastered for analogue reproduction

Nice and detailed explanation @Kapeel . Thanks for sharing with us.