Whole House Audio - for casual listening and more

[raghupb]

Folks,

In about a year's time (next summer) I am going to undertake some repair work + repainting of my apartment.
So, as we are "crazy folks", the mind starts thinking about what else can be done to enhance the AV experience.
(The "crazy folks" comment is real and comes from many of my friends and family members )

What is already there:
- the living room is set for movies (detailed below)
- the living room also has a separate 2-channel rig (simplification in the thought process)

What is envisioned so far during the renovation (will be implemented when the time comes):
1. Wired ethernet to all rooms
- in-wall PVC pipes
- will enable me to add networking gear, both wired and wireless
- this area is my bread and butter, I think I have a "good beat" on what to do here
2. Speaker wiring for surrounds in AV set up
- in-wall PVC pipes
- right now it is only 3.1; need to make it 5.1
- satellite speakers procured; waiting to be installed and tested
- no plans for ATMOS or any other future multi-channel config

Now comes the fuzzy part, because it is here that I am looking for suggestions, ideas, experience ....
Requirements:
Speakers
- there are 3 bedrooms and a kitchen that each need a sound box (max area ~160 sft)
- ceiling mount speakers preferred
- speakers need to be low profile and install friendly; up to 4" bump in ceiling after install is acceptable
- ceiling is NOT false roof, so need something which lends itself to DIY/Pro enclosure build
- frequency response (60/70Hz and above)

Source
- primary is Chromecast Audio (already in house) or equivalent "vanilla or cheap" streamer
- secondary may be a simple media player to host HDD; if required

Preamp
- should have at least two analog inputs; aux input would be nice (not mandatory)
- preamp high pass crossover preferred
- DAC/pre optional

Power Amp
- should have at least 4 channel output
- summed mono capability preferred
- class D is fine
- 100W into 8 ohms; should be 4 ohm capable
- if preamp does not have high pass filter; power amp should have it

Others
- individual room/channel on/off capability
- preferably in room (some sort of switch that cuts off connectivity to speaker)

How am I managing today?
- Phone + dinky little BT speaker
Why do I need the whole nine yards (described above)?
- You already know the answer, don't you
Can I source from abroad (US/UK)?
- Yes, light items over a period of time.
Should I ditch this approach and go with powered speakers?
- You tell me.

Let me know your thoughts, tips, manufacturer/model recommendations.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[superczar]

What's probably most important before you plan a multi-room setup is your controller choice i.e. if you intend to use your phone as the primary device to choose music / switch between rooms or whether you prefer using say Alexa to choose playlists or is it anything else?
Again, if it's the phone then are you in the android camp or iOS?
or would you rather have a multi-controller capable setup?

Also, are you very particular about in-ceiling setups (where the choice is limited/ audio quality limitations apply) or would wall edge small hoists to place bookshelves have a chance for WAF? (I was able to manage the latter)

There are a lot of variables at play so it would be good if you could fix at least a few upfront.

FWIW, controller variability ended up causing a fair amount of heartache for me and ended up landing me in a setup where there are probably way too many controllers/streamers - it would really help to decide upfront

 

[raghupb]

Thanks @superczar for your suggestions.
I haven't really thought about "smartness" and controllers.

My line of thinking was just a basic install with speaker on/off switches.
Not comfortable letting Alexa/Siri/Google into my home.
They already know too much about me
- intent is to have sound (even summed up to single speaker)
- ceiling speakers will accepted; wall speakers will be rejected outright (I'm quite sure)

The idea is to have the phone be the content provision device via a cast or streaming device.
Basic remote control is still possible:
- pause/play
- choose tracks from Spotify or Amazon Music

Researched these for electronics:
Parasound NC 200Pre; I may pull the trigger on this very soon for my main rig
- http://parasound.com/200_Pre.php
- DAC/Pre with HT bypass and High pass filter

Parasound Zpre
- http://parasound.com/zpre3.php
- No DAC

Parasound ZoneMaster 2350
- http://parasound.com/2350.php
- high pass filter 30/80 Hz; level control
- allows summed mono operation
- loads of power 300/600Wpc; 2 ohm stable

Rotel RKB850 or RKB8100
- http://www.rotel.com/sites/default/files/product/infosheets/RKB850-8100_InfoSheet.pdf
- individual controls for stereo/mono/sources, linking sources and level control
- 50/100Wpc; 4 ohm stable

Pyle Audio
- http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PVCS2/In-Wall-Speaker-Selector-Switch,-Wall-Plate-Speaker-Control
- basic wall switches for speaker select; with or without volume control

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[superczar]

Thanks @superczar for your suggestions.
I haven't really thought about "smartness" and controllers.

My line of thinking was just a basic install with speaker on/off switches.
Not comfortable letting Alexa/Siri/Google into my home.
They already know too much about me
- intent is to have sound (even summed up to single speaker)
- ceiling speakers will accepted; wall speakers will be rejected outright (I'm quite sure)

Basic remote control is still possible:
- pause/play
- choose tracks from Spotify or Amazon Music

Given the above, would it be fair to say that your intent is to keep the setup simple (while keeping usabilty/ease of use high)?
Also, given that you would need to use low profile ceiling speakers, IMO, your SQ constraint would be the speakers.

If I were you, I would really simplify the setup by
- keeping independent class D amplifiers from the likes of SMSL fo each room and leave them in an always-on state - Any pros and cons you would hear about such amps are based on the pre-condition that the connected speakers are good to excellent bookshelves or FS.
It's well nigh impossible to distinguish between an AB and D on low profile ceiling speakers

- Get a simple streaming pre-amp like the Klipsch gate (DTS Play-fi) or even a CCA for each room

- Keep the main rig as-is and add a similar input if current rig does not support streaming

- Added flexibility of adding voice control if and when you want


This would not only massively lower your costs, it will also save you a lot of wiring woes .

Also, if you do go the Play-fi route, you will have to added advantage of streaming any of your non digital sources (e.g. vinyl) from anywhere to anywhere.
I went from central amplification/distribution to a de-centralized setup and find the latter way better /convenient with no loss in SQ whatsoever.
I do use an alexa in each room and it's really handy if you dont want to reach out for your phone - even though this is something you are not keen on but it's always good to keep your options open

 

[raghupb]

Don't intend to disturb the living room setup/s. May be add a DAC/pre with HT bypass and simplify.

@superczar
Does it make sense to go thru all this trouble to get average sound in the rooms/kitchen?
That is what I have to convince myself.
Your thoughts about the SQ of ceiling speakers are valid.
Me being a KEF fanboy, was looking at their architectural series; they promise the moon

If this plan goes thru:
- one ceiling speaker per room; easy to convince the "lady of the house" if it is overhead
- distribution amp is definitely gonna be class D; should support summed mono
- preamp will be something simple; high pass filter would be nice
- simple on/off switches for which speakers are active at any given time
- source is gonna be a ChromeCast Audio; family members are very familiar with using this

Anyways, this is idea is still in wishlist stage. Let me do some more research.
But good to gather information from fellow members who may have gone thru with something like this.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[superczar]

Don't intend to disturb the living room setup/s. May be add a DAC/pre with HT bypass and simplify.

@superczar
Does it make sense to go thru all this trouble to get average sound in the rooms/kitchen?
That is what I have to convince myself.
Your thoughts about the SQ of ceiling speakers are valid.
Me being a KEF fanboy, was looking at their architectural series; they promise the moon

If this plan goes thru:
- one ceiling speaker per room; easy to convince the "lady of the house" if it is overhead
- distribution amp is definitely gonna be class D; should support summed mono
- preamp will be something simple; high pass filter would be nice
- simple on/off switches for which speakers are active at any given time
- source is gonna be a ChromeCast Audio; family members are very familiar with using this

Anyways, this is idea is still in wishlist stage. Let me do some more research.
But good to gather information from fellow members who may have gone thru with something like this.

Cheers,
Raghu

Good luck!

For what it's worth, I love the KEF sound
Also, to my ears, I couldn't find an honest difference between my old iQ5s or the relatively newer Q300s connected to a SMSL class D amp and a dual mono Marantz PM17 Amp :') - of course the latter can go much louder without clipping but for uptill 70-75 db which is plenty loud for a house, I couldn't see a reason to choose the latter over the former

Even if you account for the assumption that my hearing is not in the same class as a true audiophile, I think it would be fair to say that for ceiling speakers, a <10K class D amp woud suffice.

Just a couple of other thoughts.
Don't use a single speaker per room - even with less than perfect placement and separation, the SQ from a stereo pair will be a lot better

One more thing worth taking a look is the Amazon Link Amp. It Should have a Good DAC with decent amplification for a fair price. Just hookup CCAs to each and you are all set.

Also, another advantage with going small class D amps is that you don't have to bother with any on/off switches as the power draw when idle is really really low (1-5W as measured across various of them)
You can simply leave everything always on physically and can thus stream to any single/multiple/all at once using your phone as the switch