Why Imported Records sound better??

[Saurabh]

Hi guys...
I started record collection in 2000,
and then when i was listening to different records Indian/Imported...what i experienced is that mostly the imported version of any Indian record sounds many folds better than Indian pressed record...I know this is not true always but most likely...:sad:
eg.
ABBA-any LP pressed in any European country sounds much-much better than record pressed by Polydor of India Bombay.
Michael Jackson-as in case of CBS/Epic the LPs (BAD, THRILLER) I have pressed in USA sounds far better and have proper stereo-Dolby effect compared to Indian pressings.

Please guys DON'T TAKE THIS OTHERWISE I really don't want to offend any one
I am also TRUE INDIAN, its just what I experienced and want to know the valid reason, since I am 24 and Don't know what was the scenario back then.

 

[corElement]

Watcha playing em on my 24 year old hombre

 

[Saurabh]

Watcha playing em on my 24 year old hombre

well thanks for that quick reply ...
well I have:
PIONEER-Quartz-PL 930 (Full Automatic DirectDrive) with Shure M-95ED cartridge
and Technics Reciever-Quartz-SA-R177
all HIFI equipments

 

[sanjay0864]

It's the same story with audio cassettes and Compact Discs too. I actually stopped buying CDs in India from the time they started manufacturing (pressing) them here. There is a world of a difference between the CDs pressed overseas and the CDs pressed in India. In fact on occasion I have had the oportunity to compare the same title on CDs purchased from overseas and India; the difference is night & day.

 

[Saurabh]

It's the same story with audio cassettes and Compact Discs too. I actually stopped buying CDs in India from the time they started manufacturing (pressing) them here. There is a world of a difference between the CDs pressed overseas and the CDs pressed in India. In fact on occasion I have had the oportunity to compare the same title on CDs purchased from overseas and India; the difference is night & day.

yup You are right about the CDs too, as I have a ABBA CD cut in Germany
sounds fabulous...
but why the difference....Are these guys using degraded methods of manufacturing? or what...?

Same Story with Vinyls...
Any SOUND ENGINEER or someone who can contribute here something...

 

[dinyaar]

Hi
Cranky is spot on (whats new)

When we accept mediocre recordings why would there be any effort to improve?
As cranky mentioned its safe to go with 'imports' at a similar price point.
Rgds

 

[shaizada]

Summary:

1) Mastering effort
2) Quality control on manufacturing

 

[G401fan]

There is the competence of the cutting engineer who makes the 'mother' stamper from the copy of the master tape received from the parent company (original label) abroad. This is a major factor in the quality of pressings, as witnessed by the value given to LPs cut by Steve Hoffmann/Kevin Gray, Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman and (for late 60s, early 70s) albums cut by George Peckham (the words ' a porky prime cut' or 'Pecko' inscribed in the inner groove trailing space is the identifier).

There is also the weight and quality of vinyl used. Most 60s and 50s LPs were reasonably heavy (about 140-170 gms), which enabled the cutting of deeper grooves which were less affected by surface scratches and scuff marks. (I recently picked up an Impulse pressing of Sonny Stitt's 'Now' which had a lot of surface marks, but played Near Mint, amazingly). After the early 70s oil crisis recession, most record companies abroad cut corners by releasing flimsy LPs weighing less than 120 gms, and the rot set in. Today's reissue market has learned from these mistakes, and most LPs issued today are 180-200 gm pressings.

Quality of vinyl: It's always a mix of virgin vinyl and recycled PVC. In India, most LPs (rock and Indian classical) issued by HMV/EMI (Gramaphone Co. of India, Calcutta) used to be of pretty high quality from the early days, with a heavy grade of vinyl used. Indian Film music was not served as well, though; The covers used poor quality cardboard which cracked open pretty easily.

Polydor was the utter pits as it used very thin vinyl that was largely made from recycled plastic (according to an insider in the company I knew back then), and had incompetent cutting engineers. Even a brand new Polydor LP sounds scratchy and distorted, with rare exceptions.

Finally, CBS India (the last entrant into the Indian vinyl scene) used Polydor presses, but they may have insisted on higher standards for vinyl quality, as there is a definite improvement, but still not to the standards of EMI. CBS did use laminated carboard covers which still hold up.

 

[Saurabh]

There is the competence of the cutting engineer who makes the 'mother' stamper from the copy of the master tape received from the parent company (original label) abroad. This is a major factor in the quality of pressings, as witnessed by the value given to LPs cut by Steve Hoffmann/Kevin Gray, Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman and (for late 60s, early 70s) albums cut by George Peckham (the words ' a porky prime cut' or 'Pecko' inscribed in the inner groove trailing space is the identifier).

There is also the weight and quality of vinyl used. Most 60s and 50s LPs were reasonably heavy (about 140-170 gms), which enabled the cutting of deeper grooves which were less affected by surface scratches and scuff marks. (I recently picked up an Impulse pressing of Sonny Stitt's 'Now' which had a lot of surface marks, but played Near Mint, amazingly). After the early 70s oil crisis recession, most record companies abroad cut corners by releasing flimsy LPs weighing less than 120 gms, and the rot set in. Today's reissue market has learned from these mistakes, and most LPs issued today are 180-200 gm pressings.

Quality of vinyl: It's always a mix of virgin vinyl and recycled PVC. In India, most LPs (rock and Indian classical) issued by HMV/EMI (Gramaphone Co. of India, Calcutta) used to be of pretty high quality from the early days, with a heavy grade of vinyl used. Indian Film music was not served as well, though; The covers used poor quality cardboard which cracked open pretty easily.

Polydor was the utter pits as it used very thin vinyl that was largely made from recycled plastic (according to an insider in the company I knew back then), and had incompetent cutting engineers. Even a brand new Polydor LP sounds scratchy and distorted, with rare exceptions.

Finally, CBS India (the last entrant into the Indian vinyl scene) used Polydor presses, but they may have insisted on higher standards for vinyl quality, as there is a definite improvement, but still not to the standards of EMI. CBS did use laminated carboard covers which still hold up.

you are absolutely right...
most of Polyor LPs i own looks fine like new but when played most of them sound strange i dont know why... get to know the difference when I play the foreign counterpart.
buy I think mastering also a major issue...mastering done in India was awful
I mean when the master tape comes and master/golden/negative disc is cut here, then the sound quality deceases drastically...
I have few Polydor Indian LPs on which i see written Made In Germany (at the place where grooves end, just near the label) but it is crossed...that tells that master record came from Germany but pressing only done in India...this category of LPs SOUNDS GREAT...

same case with CBS also if record mastered out side and only pressed in India it makes a hell lot of difference in the sound quality....I GUESS MY INTERPRETATION IS APT....

 

[sachin_k5]

I am seeing a big difference in some old cds that i have compared to the new cds, most of the new cd's i bought including from companies like t-series seem to have good recording quality.

Maybe things have changed.

 

[murali_n]

Hai all,

I have come across Indian LPs which have bad pressings only on one side, the other side being normal. But they were passed in QC even without check or control. But in the west the Company would have been sued by the customer. But in India?
As for CDs the sound is highly compressed, so that you can hear the bee and a blaring horn both at the same volume level.

N.Murali

 

[Hiten]

One word: Acceptance of mediocrity.

Pretty much anything produced in India (with the exception of people) is of acceptable quality, and that is the best it can get.

There is also one Indian thing called "jugad" ...a compromise, ...an immediate solution to a problem, ...an attempt which the maker thinks no one will notice or care, ...an attempt to show how innovative one can be regardless of how temporary or clumsy that solution will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there 'ANY' Indian Product which is known worldwide for its quality ? Just curious, would be interesting to know...

 

[SKR]

I have so many Indian LP's recorded so many years rather decades back but sound great. Some of them are simply outstanding. I wonder how these LP's recoded 30 or 40 or more years back sound so good. In those days recording tecniques,cablings, marter tapes ,microphones, recording equipments were all very simple or crude. But still some of them convey music so well and are simply ourstanding.

I think the problem in India is of maintaining records because of too much of dust and pollution and cleaning techniques.

Most of the LP's I bought from the secondary market were very badly kept with lot of dust on them and penetrating deep in the grooves impossible to remove. More then half of them had to be discarded as they were not listenable and could not be cleaned. Even the best of record cleaning machines and chemicals cannot clean these grooves.
Ofcourse we do have many badly recorded LP's in India as we have many badly recorded LP's and CD's in Europe and USA and Japan.
Because now production of LP's has totally stopped in India for many years we just cannot get new seal packed clean LP's anymore. That is our bad luck because there are very few vinyl lovers in India to justify production of LP's

SKR

 

[Saurabh]

I have so many Indian LP's recorded so many years rather decades back but sound great. Some of them are simply outstanding. I wonder how these LP's recoded 30 or 40 or more years back sound so good. In those days recording tecniques,cablings, marter tapes ,microphones, recording equipments were all very simple or crude. But still some of them convey music so well and are simply ourstanding.

I think the problem in India is of maintaining records because of too much of dust and pollution and cleaning techniques.

Most of the LP's I bought from the secondary market were very badly kept with lot of dust on them and penetrating deep in the grooves impossible to remove. More then half of them had to be discarded as they were not listenable and could not be cleaned. Even the best of record cleaning machines and chemicals cannot clean these grooves.
Ofcourse we do have many badly recorded LP's in India as we have many badly recorded LP's and CD's in Europe and USA and Japan.
Because now production of LP's has totally stopped in India for many years we just cannot get new seal packed clean LP's anymore. That is our bad luck because there are very few vinyl lovers in India to justify production of LP's

SKR

In a way your point is correct SRK...
as i was Just 6-7 years old, when RECORD PRODUCTION was shut down in INDIA...Never had the privilege to go to a record store in Connaught Place and buy brand new sealed LPs:sad:
and mostly what i got is preowned LPs some in very bad shape...(((
and whenever got few, have to spend hours to clean them...so that they can finally be played.
but still with this point only we could not say that Indian pressings were upto the mark...I think others will agree to it....?

 

[SKR]

There is the competence of the cutting engineer who makes the 'mother' stamper from the copy of the master tape received from the parent company (original label) abroad. This is a major factor in the quality of pressings, as witnessed by the value given to LPs cut by Steve Hoffmann/Kevin Gray, Bob Ludwig, Bernie Grundman and (for late 60s, early 70s) albums cut by George Peckham (the words ' a porky prime cut' or 'Pecko' inscribed in the inner groove trailing space is the identifier).

There is also the weight and quality of vinyl used. Most 60s and 50s LPs were reasonably heavy (about 140-170 gms), which enabled the cutting of deeper grooves which were less affected by surface scratches and scuff marks. (I recently picked up an Impulse pressing of Sonny Stitt's 'Now' which had a lot of surface marks, but played Near Mint, amazingly). After the early 70s oil crisis recession, most record companies abroad cut corners by releasing flimsy LPs weighing less than 120 gms, and the rot set in. Today's reissue market has learned from these mistakes, and most LPs issued today are 180-200 gm pressings.

Quality of vinyl: It's always a mix of virgin vinyl and recycled PVC. In India, most LPs (rock and Indian classical) issued by HMV/EMI (Gramaphone Co. of India, Calcutta) used to be of pretty high quality from the early days, with a heavy grade of vinyl used. Indian Film music was not served as well, though; The covers used poor quality cardboard which cracked open pretty easily.

Polydor was the utter pits as it used very thin vinyl that was largely made from recycled plastic (according to an insider in the company I knew back then), and had incompetent cutting engineers. Even a brand new Polydor LP sounds scratchy and distorted, with rare exceptions.

Finally, CBS India (the last entrant into the Indian vinyl scene) used Polydor presses, but they may have insisted on higher standards for vinyl quality, as there is a definite improvement, but still not to the standards of EMI. CBS did use laminated carboard covers which still hold up.

G401fan, I agree with your observations 100%. Most of the HMV records with Dog face are well recorded and very good sounding. Polydor LP's were poorly recorded. Older days LP's by HMV were heavy with deeper grooves so surface scratches did not make big difference.

I have some of the HMV recorings which sound great even today.
Very well written observations by G401fan

 

[Saurabh]

G401fan, I agree with your observations 100%. Most of the HMV records with Dog face are well recorded and very good sounding. Polydor LP's were poorly recorded. Older days LP's by HMV were heavy with deeper grooves so surface scratches did not make big difference.

I have some of the HMV recorings which sound great even today.
Very well written observations by G401fan

Yes I agree with G401fan too...the LPs of early 70's , 60,s with HMV golden black label(Not the RED label) were really heavy and sounds Great just have 2-3 Jazz LPs...they are not Stereo but still sounds so real...
Really an achievement By THE GRAMOPHONE COMPANY OF INDIA :thumbsup:

 

[SKR]

In a way your point is correct SRK...
as i was Just 6-7 years old, when RECORD PRODUCTION was shut down in INDIA...Never had the privilege to go to a record store in Connaught Place and buy brand new sealed LPs:sad:
and mostly what i got is preowned LPs some in very bad shape...(((
and whenever got few, have to spend hours to clean them...so that they can finally be played.
but still with this point only we could not say that Indian pressings were upto the mark...I think others will agree to it....?

Saurabh I am not saying ON THIS POINT ONLY that Indian pressings were upto the mark. I am saying on the basis of what I have with me and what I hear with my own ears. I do have many good Indian LP's in very good condition. I am of the age when I could go to connaught Place and buy LP's. So many LP's I bought and many that I bought from people like me are still in good condition and very good sounding as our friend 401 has also confirmed. But many LP's that I bought from Jama Masjid and few others were in really bad condition and cleaning also did not help.
I have some American, UK and Japanese pressings which are horrible sounding and I can give a few to u if you want for free.
SKR

 

[G401fan]

I have so many Indian LP's recorded so many years rather decades back but sound great. Some of them are simply outstanding. I wonder how these LP's recoded 30 or 40 or more years back sound so good. In those days recording tecniques,cablings, marter tapes ,microphones, recording equipments were all very simple or crude. But still some of them convey music so well and are simply ourstanding.
SKR

The techniques back then may have been simple, but no way could you call them crude. In fact, the period between the mid-50s to the mid-60s is now recognized as the Golden Age of recording. Which is why original pressing classical LPs from that period (on Decca, Columbia, RCA Living Stereo labels among others) and jazz (on Blue Note, Riverside, Prestige) are so highly prized today. Most recording equipment was valve-based, they used minimal mikes, large studios with excellent acoustics, and most performances were captured 'live'. There is a certain 'feel' to those performances which you rarely find today, except on a few boutique labels. By the late 60s, you had 16 and 24 track tapes, there was close miking (no ambience) for each instrument, multiple takes, and overdubbing at all levels, all finally equalized and compressed by the mixing engineer. Dynamics were sacrificed for radio airplay, especially for most pop/rock music. Today's music is even worse served, with Pro-Tools used by virtually every studio for pitch and frequency correction to so-called 'perfect' levels, removing all idiosyncrasies from the art of the performer.

I think that HMV Calcutta had very good recording engineers for their 50s and 60s recordings of classical music, and studios and equipment that matched those in the West, which is why so many of those LPs sound so good today. If you have a clean copy, of course.

 

[Saurabh]

Saurabh I am not saying ON THIS POINT ONLY that Indian pressings were upto the mark. I am saying on the basis of what I have with me and what I hear with my own ears. I do have many good Indian LP's in very good condition. I am of the age when I could go to connaught Place and buy LP's. So many LP's I bought and many that I bought from people like me are still in good condition and very good sounding as our friend 401 has also confirmed. But many LP's that I bought from Jama Masjid and few others were in really bad condition and cleaning also did not help.
I have some American, UK and Japanese pressings which are horrible sounding and I can give a few to u if you want for free.
SKR

well I think you know it better, as you lived in that era, where one could buy fresh pieces...
even i bought LPs from Jama masjit (old Delhi specifically)...records there are really in bad shape....I mean i go through 500 LPs and takes out hardly 5-6 out of 'em.
well I must say I am now quite EXPERIENCED in this, i mean mostly buy used LP...so now I could just see the LP through dust and all and could tell that will it worth buying, or it will play well after washing/cleaning or not.

and to your offer i must say SRK would just like to go through your American, UK and Japanese pressings...lets see how can a clean imported LP sound HORRIBLE...I wonder...!!!

 

[rsud]

Many factors at work.
One is also the quality of the tape or the digital copy.

In the tape world the country of origin generally has the best sound. Usually tapes sent abroad for pressings in other countries are several generations removed from the originals. Digital is also often down rezed.

Many indian records, particularly classical, sound very good.
But modern music (90's onward) usually sounds harsh and thin.
Sometimes it sounds like a cassette is the source!

European albums, in general, sound the best particularly british releases.
I often look for british pressings. Helps that a lot of good music is british!