anuragn
Active Member
Now this is an exageration...really.
Any comments on Bose Speakers ?
- Thread starter susheeljohn
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Now this is an exageration...really.
corrrrresssssssssssshhhhhttttt (correct)Oh yes, You are welcome to discuss the SOUND. I was commenting about comments which expand acronyms like "Buy Another Sound Equipment" and the gazillion ones that follow. Now do you call that a healthy discussion? Audiophile forums are for discussing sound. Not for displaying your imagiation skills. If you haven't commented such, my post was not for you. simple.
Which was the same point I was making. Nobody will buy bose but for the marketing. It is just another marketing stategy that works, well for the most part. But it does not give us the right to redicule them. Redicule their sound compared to brand ___ objectively after a demo and it is perfectly fine.
Hmm, what is your point? I can show you thousands who were happy with 301 (if such a thing existed). Else bose would have closed shop by now. Not be growing year after year.
Ok. Now I begin to think you were on booze yesterday.
Walk to the nearest mall, Compare a sony 30k 5.1 speaker system with the bose 5.1 system costing 50k. Come here and write your comments. Wont take much time. Seriously.
As bad as the bose systems are compared to high end systems, they beat the likes of sony, samsung hands down.
If you still think the 5k sony sytem and the 50k bose system are comparable, people here will atleast know about your judgement or the lack of it.
I specifically mentioned "perception of wholesome and tight bass" to common man. Mid range is garbage. but I haven't yet come accross someone hearing karnatic music in a bose system.
For a person who was listening to creative speakers and sony mini towers, Bose system produces 'wholesome and tight bass'. Even otherwise I wont call their sound loose and boomy.
Did it occur you that the kind of speakers which makes music overwhelming as opposed to human voice are actually preferred by a lot of people? You will be surprised at the number.
You won't.
But the owners of bose (and the sales personel) will tell you stories about how the direct reflecting speakers will reflect sound from rear wall and give you 'surround sound'.
Are you aware of 2.1 systems labled 'surround sound' with a button to enable surround sound?? The person who was using this stuff 'upgrades' to a BOSE.
I hope now you get the segment bose is targeting at. You give them a pair audiophile speakers, they will test it in with their mp3s and feel 'cheated'.
By small, you mean 2" speakers like bose??
And what are they?? My post was to bring them out and provide people with options.
I agree to each and everything above. (apart from the fact that bose has wireless stuff, takes signals directly from USB port, ipod and has no seperate amplifiers, which is irrelevent).
It is easy to say go to profx and buy the stuff you like the most.
But, think of this person who copies his frequently listening mp3s to a memory stick/ipod, picks up his hard disk full of downloaded movie content and ventures out to by audio equipment.
He faces blockages even in the first steps in shops like profx who right away tell him his songs are going to sound bad. Most setups are not compatible with these inputs. The ones which do support try to bring out the true face of his mp3s and divx compressions. The profx guys says that sound comes out of only 2 speakers when listening to such sources and so on.
Next he moves into a BOSE showroom and boom, his devices plugs in right away into ipod docks and usb slots, plays much better than he has ever seen them play and the store starts speaking about how they can arrange loan and this guy is already sold.
To this guy, buying bose makes more sense.
The problem with you is not accepting the existance of such people. I have no more to say here.
The above person will not share this opinion.
Again and again and again. It sounds like shit to YOU and ME not the person who buys BOSE. That was the whole point I was trying to make. If it is soundin shit to him, he wont buy it and BOSE would be nowhere.
They are comparing to the sonys of the world. I personally feel headphones reproduce much of the voice. To each his own.
Iam not praising bose. I WILL NEVER BUY BOSE MYSELF. I dont know where you get that. They are good at few things which an average customer looks for and covers the rest in marketing. They still make the best mass market consumer system compared to sony, samsung, toshiba etc.
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Just to add to blasto..
( I am not able to get any concrete stats)
I read somewhere that Bosde is BIGGEST speaker manufacturer..Also Amar Bose is in Billioners list , I cannot see any other manufacturer..
So fro where he gets this sale? Or he is lying?
Just to add to blasto..
( I am not able to get any concrete stats)
I read somewhere that Bosde is BIGGEST speaker manufacturer..Also Amar Bose is in Billioners list , I cannot see any other manufacturer..
So fro where he gets this sale? Or he is lying?
If nobody would buy bose without marketing, its a perfect candidate for ridicule. Their sound in general looses out to other brands after a demo and thats the reason people generally ridicule them
Point is that I was a perfect candidate for bose marketing machine, having no experience/exposure to audiophile sound or brands. still hated it.
BTW, after I returned the bose, I went and bought a kenwood system and was much happier than i was with bose and kept for a few years.
if you see the original comment, it was not about the sound quality of a sony. it was about the ease of use with existing media player, lack of messy cables, being better than audiophile systems for mp3 etc. most of the sony systems etc are coming with all these connectivity options these days. And they probably will sound better with mp3s than good systems. Anyway, bose isnt about sound quality is it. If a guy does not care about sound quality, why go for bose. if he does care about sound quality, why go for bose:lol: (just kidding, I agree to your point about an average joe preferring bose to sony etc in terms of sound).Ok. Now I begin to think you were on booze yesterday.
Walk to the nearest mall, Compare a sony 30k 5.1 speaker system with the bose 5.1 system costing 50k. Come here and write your comments. Wont take much time. Seriously.
As bad as the bose systems are compared to high end systems, they beat the likes of sony, samsung hands down.
If you still think the 5k sony sytem and the 50k bose system are comparable, people here will atleast know about your judgement or the lack of it.
A small speaker does not need to be that small. For a person looking for small speakers, many times a 6" spkr is small enough, there is a good chance he can fit in a 4" or 6" spkr where he wants to fit in a 2"By small, you mean 2" speakers like bose??
And what are they?? My post was to bring them out and provide people with options.
Another fact is that there are good quality 2" or 3" full rangers available that sound really good, these are in the diy market. You can actually make a real good system with these, paired with a sub. Now I am not saying that these people who dont know jack about audio should go and build these.:lol: The point is that there do exist good small full range spkrs that produce quality music, its just that bose chooses not to use them and uses their own made crap drivers. Small system and good quality music are not mutually exclusive options. Getting good sound from mp3 and flacs both is possible.
For the price they charge, they could've made a much better system, but why make better systems when crap sells. Bose does not care about sound quality of their products, if they did, they will make better systems.
oh, most of the people fall in this category. Thats why I say that bose targets the gullibility or lack of knowledge in this front. if all the people knew about it, bose would shut down. its probably this point that ticks off audiophiles the most. I agree to most of the points you have made though.
kapvin
Well-Known Member
The cost of marketing is never an excuse for the price of a product. It might be an alarm bell as to its quality, though. Might I mention the word Microsoft?
The world is not really split into those who are audiophiles and those who are not. Most people appreciate a good product in most fields, whether it is good food in a restaurant or good sound from a speaker. They may not make a hobby of defining and analysing it, they may not be able to afford it, they may not buy it even if they can --- but they will probably still get a feeling as to the quality of the experience.
This can be countered, though, as well as encouraged, by education and experience. For instance, some might think that "good" music is supposed to sound like a highly compressed MP3 or like the soundtrack from Star Wars (or even... like a highly compressed MP3 recording of the soundtrack from starwars!). Sometimes, this just happens: sometimes it is positively guided by the marketing men.
Kapvin, go through your post and substitute the word "good" for "audiophile" and see how it reads then, because that is what you are really saying.
I don't think I have ever owned any hifi equipment that would be categorised higher than "mid-range". Just as there are only a handful of BMW/Merc/Even-more-expensive car owners on Team-BHP, there are probably only a handful of people here with hifi systems that cost tens of lakhs of rupees or even more. Are they the audiophiles among us? There are a handful of people that actually understand the technical specifications, and even the equipment at component level. Are they the Audiophiles among us? Or are we all audiophiles, because we like to do the best we can with what we can afford, in the rooms we have --- in which case, not only all the members here, but many who would not even join the forum... we are all audiophiles.
So, Bose speakers are not made for audiophiles, eh? That's what I thought
@Thad, you'll have to be a bit more direct on that part of your post addressed to me, because i did not get what you meant.
if there was anything that I was implying beyond my written words, it was just this, that everyone has a goal while purchasing "hifi", and "Good sound" is sometimes one of them.
"Good Sound" is bit of moving definition anyway, even those who consider themselves audiophiles would find it difficult to agree on what is good sound, (not it's definition, but agreeing what in practice is good sound when you hear it)
I do not necessarily understand the "good sound" definition of a person who buys Bose, but to each his own, and I do not seek endorsement for my definition of "good sound".
a lot of elements get traded off against each other when we buy a system. There is price, aesthetics, clarity, extension, size, simplicity, reliability, etc. One trades these off one against the other reach one;s personal "sweet spot"
it's just that price being a constant (or a ceiling) people on this forum tend to compromise on aesthetics, size, simplicity, while maximising the other elements.
These very elements that an HFV member may compromise on are non negotiable for those who buy bose.
oh, and am I an audiophile now? not even by the loosest definition. approaching middle age, dimnished hearing, finite wallet have ensured that even the pretensions don't exist anymore.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Me too! And I can't claim that my buying decisions have never been affected by looks --- although I would not buy anything that sounded bad to me just because it looked good.
If people don't buy hifi for good sound, then they are not buying hifi: they are buying something to make noise with. Consider how bad the sound quality that comes from many TV speakers is (which may be one of the reasons why any HT system is an upgrade from just-a-tv).
hemantwaghe... consider the word Microsoft --- and then reconsider the relationship between marketing, market share, sales figures, and product quality.
<Off Topic>
Can you be specific on which of the microsoft ad appeals to you? I personally feel microsoft makes the worst ads (see bill and jerry as for instance in youtube). Microsoft rides on legacy rather than ads nowadays.
Apple can be said to be surviving out of ads. See the "Iam a PC" ads in youtube for instance. Inspite of directly attacking the competetor, they managed to sell considerable amounts of their products this way.
The argument still holds that if you want to upgrade from a sony, the options are less and BOSE will be top of the mind of this customer. Few do spend money and buy, few buy a sony again making sure he will buy BOSE next time.
Again, BOSE is about sound quality to the target segment. Sound quality is at every level. Only you dont see it below a certain threshold. Why even buy sony hifi system then? Everyone can listen to songs coming out of their mobile phone speakers and get contented. That is not the case though? For many, looking at anything other than BOSE at the price range is venturing into the unknown with unknown results.
Well, might not be true entirely. When you see a 2" speaker system making big sound (really people express their demo experience like this) vs 6" speaker making same sound. You go for the former.
They could make better systems by cutting down on marketing costs and directing the funds to R&D. They will become like any other player then and lose the edge.
Now the essence of the discussion reduces to this.
hyeah:You cannot call majority of the population as 'gullible'. Instead, ask a person belonging to this pool. He will point out the correct outfit. That he is normal and YOU are demanding.
He wants to 'plugin' his source and 'hear' music while YOU want to interfere with each step of the sound reproduction right from recording content, hifi player, pre amplifier, euqalizer, amplifier, speaker, interconnects and what not?
mp3 is the MOST used content in the world. So is divx. Both these formats were invented keeping in mind minimising the internet load and for quick downloads and went on to become smashing hits overtaking the lossless formats. Is this also due to lack of knowledge?? It is the culmination of ease of use and availability. "People in a larger scale only need this much". They are not gulliable nor ignorant. They simply do not want to spend time on something as simple as 'hearing a song' and much less hunting for the right mix of equipments to make this happen. If someone (like bose) makes their life any easy, they just pay.
Thought of putting down a different perspective on BOSE strategies amidst some heated dialogue going on. No, this has nothing to do with "sound", but their extraordinary business strategy in adverse situation.
During 2009 economic downturn, BOSE sales went down heavily. To survive in that situation they came up with a totally new product. And the new product is "truck seats". In long journeys, the truck seats, even for international brands, are not comfortable due to heavy vibration filtering into it. BOSE used their knowledge on vibration learnt during designing speakers, and came up with a fabulous new design of truck seats. I learnt that part of BOSE business is doing very well now. Indeed a very innovative company.
No I do not own a BOSE, but heard it.
During 2009 economic downturn, BOSE sales went down heavily. To survive in that situation they came up with a totally new product. And the new product is "truck seats". In long journeys, the truck seats, even for international brands, are not comfortable due to heavy vibration filtering into it. BOSE used their knowledge on vibration learnt during designing speakers, and came up with a fabulous new design of truck seats. I learnt that part of BOSE business is doing very well now. Indeed a very innovative company.
No I do not own a BOSE, but heard it.
If you have
-an interest in the reproduction of sound, and
-have spent time, and effort trying to get out the best sound, and
-have loved the process of attaining the same, irrespective of how much you have spent, or what equpment you have
Like it or not, you are an audiophile
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square_wave
Well-Known Member
I recently had the opportunity to hear couple of speaker systems from B&O in their showroom in UB City. I found them very average at best. Definitely not hi fidelity. Sharp and cooked sound with no resemblance to actual tone and timbre of music. It the most over priced loudspeaker I have ever heard.
hey SW, I hear you...
Beolab 5 is really good, but again will not come in as VFM on sound alone. as with all lifestyle products, looks/aesthetics, brand etc play a large role in their price. other than the pure sound most of us are in the lookout for.
I had heard it once in their showroom in Paris and those guys had set it up very well...unlike in many other places.
Of course they look good but i would neve buy one for my audio needs even if i do somehow get the money
Beolab 5 is really good, but again will not come in as VFM on sound alone. as with all lifestyle products, looks/aesthetics, brand etc play a large role in their price. other than the pure sound most of us are in the lookout for.
I had heard it once in their showroom in Paris and those guys had set it up very well...unlike in many other places.
Of course they look good but i would neve buy one for my audio needs even if i do somehow get the money
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
My point is that Microsoft is a company built on marketing (and aggressive business practices). Its success has nothing to do with product quality, which, for along time was absolutely dreadful (Windows up to W2000) and still leaves something to be desired.
When I encounter arguments to the effect that a popular product can't be bad because so many people buy it, I say, "Microsoft".
By the way, we were invited to "comment" on Bose speakers. Whether the originator of the thread meant the invitation to be so wide open, or not, I don't know, but I guess that the invitation was certainly accepted
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I own a BOSE 5.1 speaker and definitely it sounds good. Actualy i just bought this speakers because of its compact design when i was in USA. Since i have to carry the speakers to India i thought no ther Go, Only bose speakers. I didnt even audiotion any other speakers.I just bought these speakers for around 550$ i think.
After coming back to india since i saw bad reviews about this speakers i just really wanted to see exactly the difference between other speakers. I audiotioned many speakers with the same same set of CDs/DVDs i heared on BOSE speakers.. Actually I have to admit Other speakers sounds powerful / louder but at the same time It was hurting my ears especially for gun sounds etc and leading to head ache. But hearing in BOSE speakers never hurt my ears and it always sounds sweet.
I feel BOSE is good in terms of handling the sound not in terms of very powerful or louder.
For small to medium sized rooms it works even better than other speakers. And for the price of 550$ it's definetly worth.
And It depends on individual taste. Some people like powerful sound ..and some like mild and sweet sound. Its better always audiotion the speaker and buy.
After coming back to india since i saw bad reviews about this speakers i just really wanted to see exactly the difference between other speakers. I audiotioned many speakers with the same same set of CDs/DVDs i heared on BOSE speakers.. Actually I have to admit Other speakers sounds powerful / louder but at the same time It was hurting my ears especially for gun sounds etc and leading to head ache. But hearing in BOSE speakers never hurt my ears and it always sounds sweet.
I feel BOSE is good in terms of handling the sound not in terms of very powerful or louder.
For small to medium sized rooms it works even better than other speakers. And for the price of 550$ it's definetly worth.
And It depends on individual taste. Some people like powerful sound ..and some like mild and sweet sound. Its better always audiotion the speaker and buy.
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What is your point in stating this? Are you stating that audiophiles are dumb? Are you saying audiophiles are audiofools?
Very well said.
sanjay0864
Well-Known Member
Though we respect your preference for a Bose system, I think you fell into the universal trap of demos and thinking that speakers/amps have to be loud (read powerful) to have any effect. Anything loud beyond 75db will hurt your ears, including Bose. Actually if I go near your ears and shout, believe me that will hurt.
The idea of a powerful amplifier and good speaker combination is to be able to hear every nuance of a song or a movie at very reasonable amplitude, certainly not loud. I am sure you can recall movies in cinema halls where you can hear footsteps in the distance, or clearly hear two actors whispering to each other. These are delivered by amp that run into 1000s of watts.
A good amp should be able to deliver the extra punch of a explosion or a gunshot without hurting your ears, and at the same time, make you feel the gun shot. In music, drums need to be delivered at the correct frequency, and in music that is played by a large orchestra, you should be able to feel the whole music team, and at the same time hear a single violin without having to increase the amplitude or alter the frequency.
Believe me, no sub/sat system including Bose can ever deliver that.
I have listened to systems delivering close to 500 (real) watts into just two speakers over extended periods of 8 hours with an urge to hear more. No fatigue whatsoever. At the same time I have also listened to speakers/amp combination with less than 50 watts that have made me want to run from the room.
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