3D fundamentals, blu-ray Player or not - Confused

[mbhangui]

I am a bit confused. You have these blu-ray players. These players can play media on blu-ray disks. You have some movies in 3d (like Avatar, Hugo, etc). Now a 3d player can play the media in 3d. The same 3d media can be played from a PC (either 3d tv connected to the graphics card or through streaming). Is it necessary for the BD player to have 3d capabilities? What will happen if I play a 3d media in a non-3d capable bd player (assuming tv is 3d capable)?

Now you have 3d capable blu-ray players. What role does such a player play? Since the 3d tv itself can play 3d movies, why do you require a 3d capable blue ray player?

I have Hugo 3d in .mkv format and I can play the same using streaming over apple tv to my 3d capable tv. How will an external blu-ray player help? Will it give better quality? Can't I put a < RS 7000 bdrom drive on my HTPC and do play 3d blu-ray disks? Are there advantages of having an external standalone bd players

 

[just4kix]

There is a huge difference in the downloaded 3D content (mkv or other format) and the 3D BD's.

The original 3D BDs is a frame packed source. Frame Packing refers to the combination of two frames, one for the left eye and the other for the right eye, into a single packed frame that consists of these two individual sub-frames. The key difference of a Frame Packing signal is that each sub-frame for each eye is still at full resolution, i.e., 19201080 for a 1080p Frame Packing signal. When such a material is played on 3D BDP and signal fed to 3D TV, the TV is capable of automatically detecting a true 3D signal and switching to 3D automatically. 3D BDs use this format only and these discs can be played on a 3D BDP only. Here is a photo of 3D frame packed source:

The downloaded content is converted from original 3D source into SBS or Side-by-Side format. The SBS content divides the frame of 1920x1080 pixels frame into 860x1080 + 860x1080 pixels - one for left eye and one for right eye. When such material is fed to 3D TV (via any source), two frames are displayed on screen. You have to press the 3D button on remote to switch to 3D viewing. These 3D formats can be played directly to the TV via USB attached devices or media players. These do not require a 3D BDP. Here is an example of 3D SBS:

Frame packed BDs have better clarity obviously but not so much that can be detected by the average ??? ??????.

HTH.

 

[mbhangui]

Thanks for the simple explanation. Can a HTPC play frame packed source. What would be required to do this?

I have a XFX ATI Radeon HD 4350 graphics card on my HTPC. It has a 3d chip.

"If full-speed Blu-Ray playback and HDMI Audio 7.1 capabilities are your thing, then the XFX ATI Radeon HD4350 is your card. Offering 8GB of memory bandwidth paired with DDR2 memory, this low-profile card fits in almost any case or motherboard designed to have a PCI Express video card in it."

So if I buy a BDROM drive, theoretically, I should be able to play frame packed source. Now will I need a special media player? Has anyone tried XBMC or media player home cinema?

 

[just4kix]

Thanks for the simple explanation. Can a HTPC play frame packed source. What would be required to do this?

I have a XFX ATI Radeon HD 4350 graphics card on my HTPC. It has a 3d chip.

"If full-speed Blu-Ray playback and HDMI Audio 7.1 capabilities are your thing, then the XFX ATI Radeon HD4350 is your card. Offering 8GB of memory bandwidth paired with DDR2 memory, this low-profile card fits in almost any case or motherboard designed to have a PCI Express video card in it."

So if I buy a BDROM drive, theoretically, I should be able to play frame packed source. Now will I need a special media player? Has anyone tried XBMC or media player home cinema?

HTPC can play a frame packed source if the 3D BD is ripped 1:1. BD-ROM must have 3D capability I think (I am not sure).

 

[manoj.p]

just4kix has given a very nice explanation.

To play SBS or TopNBottom 3D, no special hardware is needed. Its just a normal 1080p signal with 2 frames in 1.

However, the frame packed bluray needs hardware that supports it. On PC, nvidia and AMD has the hardware specified.
AMD - 3D Desktop Graphics for Consumers
Nvidia - 3D Glasses and Displays

Based on the AMD link - the ATI Radeon 4350 does not support 3D.
In addition to these, you would also need a "3D capable" software bluray player.

I would say - avoid the hassle and just get a 3d capable bluray player.

 

[reignofchaos]

^^ You need a radeon 6xxx series card of a geforce 4xx series card or higher to play MVC content.

The ones below that do not support HDMI 1.4

 

[ukjeyaraj]

Do these VGA cards come in two category i.e., active/passive like TVs. If so does it work with only matching display (TV/Monitor/projector) and 3D Glasses?

Will a 3D BD player work with both active or passive 3D display (TV/Monitor/projector)?

If ripped 3D content does not require 3D capable player, how does the display understand the 3D content category as SBS/Top:Bottom/Anaglyph. Whether all 3D TVs can handle all foramts (SBS/Top:Bottom/Anaglyph)?

 

[manoj.p]

Do these VGA cards come in two category i.e., active/passive like TVs. If so does it work with only matching display (TV/Monitor/projector) and 3D Glasses?

No, these VGA cards do not come in active/passive category. Those do have HDMI ports and work with that. HDMI 1.3 supported cards work with SBS/TNB 3d, which is also called half-resolution 3D, as explained by just4kix above.

Will a 3D BD player work with both active or passive 3D display (TV/Monitor/projector)?

Yes. Active/Passive 3d display is just a different technology to display. 3D BD player will work with both and it does not make any distinction.

If ripped 3D content does not require 3D capable player, how does the display understand the 3D content category as SBS/Top:Bottom/Anaglyph. Whether all 3D TVs can handle all foramts (SBS/Top:Bottom/Anaglyph)?

Some displays detect, many don't. On my Epson projector, I need to specify whether input is SBS/TopNBottom. Anaglyph is not converted by display, so its not used.

 

[tma]

Do these VGA cards come in two category i.e., active/passive like TVs. If so does it work with only matching display (TV/Monitor/projector) and 3D Glasses?

active/passive are terms for the 3d 'display' format whereas the Framepacked/SBS are the 3d 'file/media' format - both are totally independent and have no relation to each other. The display format is relevant for display devices and the file formats are relevant for the decoding devices. VGA cards have to only decode the files suitably and are independent of the display devices' 3d capability to support active/passive display.

Will a 3D BD player work with both active or passive 3D display (TV/Monitor/projector)?

Yes, the BDP will decode the 3d files and provide to the display in a suitable way so as to display the content in 3d

If ripped 3D content does not require 3D capable player, how does the display understand the 3D content category as SBS/Top:Bottom/Anaglyph. Whether all 3D TVs can handle all foramts (SBS/Top:Bottom/Anaglyph)?

Analglyph format is totally independent of either the 3d display or decoding devices - it has to do only with the viewer having suitable red/cyan glasses to experience 3d. This format can be used on ANY display with ANY player independent of any 3d capabilities. Thats why we can even get the 3d effect even on printed Analglyph comics and stuff..
As regards the SBS stuff, typically one chooses this format /option manually on the display device to enable the 3d. I am not aware of any display that can automatically detect this and switch to 3d - theoretically this can be easily automated using basic image processing techniques but I doubt if these are already implemented.
As to your last sentence, any device or TV/BDP/PJ natively supporting 3d would support decoding such formats but these are NOT applicable to 3d Ready Projectors, which need an external device to decode the 3d.

 

[ukjeyaraj]

thanks for the nice explanation manoj and tma