Do you have the money that it takes to be an audiophile?

[ajinkya]

Very interesting posts by all.

Murali, I second your views on where the buck stops as far as spending is concerned. Music is something which should be enjoyed for it's inherent melody and patterns, not whether a cymbal sounds 'splashy' or not. If one is doing that too often, it means one is obsessed with the equipment, not the music. Nothing wrong with that obsession if you can afford it but let us not justify it as a reason that it makes the music 'sound better'. It is an obsession, pure and simple and like all obsessions, ultimately will either be controlled by its possessor or will possess him/her.

I would also recommend that if one really has that much extra money to spend, you should take out some time and try a DIY design. Even the simple act of soldering and studying a schematic will give you much more insight into how a real amp/speaker/DAC is made, rather than the hours spent agonising if putting a cable in zero Kelvin vacuum will make it sound better. The knowledge and excitement gained from self creation is worth it; this from personal experience.

Another thing you can do if you have so much money is again, take out some time and learn a musical instrument. That way, you can have a live concert in your living room by yourself without bothering about whether the guitar strings sound 'thick enough' or whether the drums have the 'bite' to them. Learning a new instrument or at least the rudiments of music from a trained person will contribute far more to your enjoyment, appreciation of, and admiration for the musician and composer than suspending your components in a zero-gravity, mechanically isolated, precisely centred, laser-beam treated room.

Just my opinion. As always.

Jinx.

 

[suri]

Hi,
It is wise to stop at the point of diminishing returns. But that bar is very, very high.

It is also equally important to buy a speaker/headphone that does nothing wrong.

You might have a pair of budget standmounts, like say the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1.

A good budget speaker for sure and I have a pair. (I bought them for my dad, who used to swear by his 1000 W PMPO mini-compo :lol: )

Now, the Diamond 9.1 does not have an extraordinary soundstage/resolution/timing/dynamics.....

It has a tonally correct mid-range and sweet treble.... but although it does nothing special in other areas, it DOES NOTHING OFFENSIVE.

Quite often you have speakers /headphones that have tremendous timing/dynamics/soundstage, but have a peak/dip/colouration somewhere in the tonality.

Or a beautiful tonal balance with flawed timing....

Keeping the above in mind, it is wise to keep on upgrading till one has a reference system that DOES NOT GET EVERYTHING RIGHT, but DOES NOTHING WRONG.

That's what I keep looking for...

hi bhanja_trinanjan,

that does not ever happen by choice! - when it happens - SERENDIPITY!

and yes, life is not about being happy - it is about not being unhappy!

regards

 

[psychotropic]

hehe, i am 27 as well......i don't think I can claim to be an audiophile. I love music, I love good sound and I am a technology freak......so basically that meant that hi fi was an instant attraction and I suffer from the same afflictoin that you guys suffer but perhaps without the same level of discernment. My hearing is a bit wonky (been meaning to get it checked by an ENT) and for instance during the audio source shootout, I had to really struggle to make out differences between the various CD players.

With regard to money I guess it's a question of priority. I bought used stuff and so on so that I could have a setup that I really loved and I do until upgrade-itis strikes again of course.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Friends I have not yet started my journey properly although I have grown >50 yrs of age.:sad:

So far my experience are a DIY (not by me) valve radio in my schooldays then a transistor radio (Murphy) in my college days. When I got my service I bought a two-in-one (Good old Panasonic) and listened to audio casettes. CDs were high priced and rare in my budget. That time my priority was to get a flat and save some money.

At my 45 years of age I purchsed a Sony music system. But I did not like its sound and sold it after 4 years.

About an year ago, when I could gather some money (thanks to bull run in Stock market) I started to build my PC slowly. Kept on adding video card, audio card, upgraded keyboard, mouse. Now after spending about 80k I am very much satisfied with its performance. Patience is my key.

Then I came accross Hifivision. It turned my knowledge. Slowly I started to understand the terms and intricacies of this world of sound. After following different threads for about 6 months, I could shortlist few speakers and taken audition. I have booked a used speaker. The amps and balance chain are still in the process of selection. I allocated budget of about 2.5L for my system. Trying to get used items to get a decent system within my budget. But folks you have driven me to crossroad between PC+DAC and CDP.

Meanwhile, I understood the importance of good recording and started collecting CDs (mainly imported albums from Rhythm house and also from Amazon). Again, Hifi members helped me a lot in identifying good albums. So far my CD collection reahced about 90 nos and spent about 40 k.

Patience is the key, and with God's grace I have ithyeah:. Once I get my total system I will not try to upgrade for atleast 5 years or unless some problem arises. I don't give much importance to the word Audiophile. Listening good music is important to me. Few wow moments and occassional foot tapping is my humble expectation.

One thing I feel, if one get chance to lay his hand on any music instruments and practise for few years, his ears automatically acquire the ability of judging good music and sound. I am lucky I could get the chance to play violin during my school/college days and experienced the feeling of listening live music. The involvement with music can not attain that level unless one practice on any instrument / vocal. I envy Asit in this regard.

 

[unleash_me]

hehe, i am 27 as well......i don't think I can claim to be an audiophile.

Are you sure?! cuz the rest of your post begs to differ that claim When you first put your system together, did you experience any of these symptoms?

 

[soulforged]

no intentions of flaming anyone but lets not kid ourselves with the lofty talk on loving the music and that everthing else is just a phase...

when I was in college, I listened to my music on a beat up philips stereo and loved it...now with a entry-level hifi i'm not happy

let's put things into perspective...like someone pointed out rightly here...this is a journey and you'll pass through stages and when you get past each stage you'd start looking towards the next stage...thats the way it is...as simple as that...the journey is never over and you will never stop learning...

hifi is an expensive hobby...but then most of the hobbies are...photography for instance or sometihng as plain as bird-watching...i've known orinthologists who have paid fantastic bux for their binoculars just to go to a swamp and watch birds! (no offense to any bird watcher).

Audio equipments are expensive here and everywhere else...the problem gets compounded here due to low availability and import policies...added to that is the reluctance of the dealers to let people just 'experience' it even if they don't buy immediately (thats the reason we have to rely on other's reviews more than we'd wish to)...the economies of scale are not encouraging to the local makers either...we can debate all night long on whether the cost is justifiable or not but the crux of the matter is that it is expensive and exclusive...and thats the long and short of it...

I'm 35 and not even close to owning what most here would call a hi-fi system...but that's what I can affort right now and i'll live with it...and dream of a better system and plan for it (I have an SIP going just for that )

If you have chosen this journey...just get on with it...for some it might be a faster journey than yours...its gonna be expensive but thats the way it is...

my Rs.0.02

 

[square_wave]

Keep your options open and your ears open.

I can only give you a few suggestions.

1.Stay with smaller underground brands if you want maximum bang for your buck. There are true hi-end super brands out there. But they will cost you a bomb and some.

2.99 percent of what they say in popular audio rags are complete bullsh*****

3.Stay away from mainstream fancy pant brands. They are out to clean out your wallet.

4.If you are into 2-channel stereo, stay away from AVRs and sound equipment made for the HT market. Simple designs give you the best sound.

A few websites I recommend.
AudioCircle - Index
Aspen Amplifiers

Keep your mind open to DIY and custom designs made in India. A well assembled kit amp and loudspeaker will wipe the floor with most mainstream amplifiers and loudspeakers in the market today. It will also light a bonfire and do a samba dance around them. You will save a lot of money too.

 

[subhash]

Hi,
I am in a weird situation. I am all of 27 years old with a job in the IT industry. I am an absolute audiophile, determined to hear music in the way it was recorded. My ears are relatively fresh in comparison to those of 45+ CEO's.... But, I just don't have the cash reserves to buy reference grade audio setups... my current setup (see signature) is very good, but I still haven't hit the point of diminishing returns... Do you find yourselves in a similar scenario where you just don't have the $$ to buy high-end equipment without having to sacrifice on the other priorities of life? Very relevant question for us Indians, especially considering our relatively meagre earnings and ridiculous custom duties!

cool man , have patience , patience is the key
plan up , one day you will have a system of your dreams

but then in this field of ours theres no limit!!!


the journey to your final? destination (dream system)is great fun , enjoy it

 

[square_wave]

hehe, i am 27 as well......i don't think I can claim to be an audiophile. I love music, I love good sound and I am a technology freak......so basically that meant that hi fi was an instant attraction and I suffer from the same afflictoin that you guys suffer but perhaps without the same level of discernment. My hearing is a bit wonky (been meaning to get it checked by an ENT) and for instance during the audio source shootout, I had to really struggle to make out differences between the various CD players.

With regard to money I guess it's a question of priority. I bought used stuff and so on so that I could have a setup that I really loved and I do until upgrade-itis strikes again of course.

Hi Psychotropic,
What was the rest of the gear used in the shootout ?
Unless the gear is very resolving (hi-end), you will have to struggle to hear differences between similarity priced cd players.
You have cause to worry if the system in question was a hyper revealing one

 

[psychotropic]

A Primare I30(?) amp and Dynaudio floorstanders (dont' recall the model number).

Hi Psychotropic,
What was the rest of the gear used in the shootout ?
Unless the gear is very resolving (hi-end), you will have to struggle to hear differences between similarity priced cd players.
You have cause to worry if the system in question was a hyper revealing one

 

[sachin_k5]

Satisfaction is highly relative to options. If you had a lowly 2-in-1 stereo you will enjoy it and be satisfied with it until you heard something better. Then you think about it, research it and go and buy the 'better' stuff and enjoy it for sometime until you hear something better and the story goes on....its like a drug addiction where you need incremental doses to keep you happy.

My say is whatever you have, enjoy the music, don't sit and worry about 'soundstage','warmth',etc. Collect money slowly over time and buy better stuff not because you are unhappy about your existing system but because you can afford a better one.

P.S. I heard a lot of folks here saying they want the sound to be exactly as the musician wanted it to be but how will you know how a instrument sounds unless you are actively listening to live music. Are all audiophiles also active live music listeners ?

 

[hemantwaghe]

Satisfaction is highly relative to options. If you had a lowly 2-in-1 stereo you will enjoy it and be satisfied with it until you heard something better. Then you think about it, research it and go and buy the 'better' stuff and enjoy it for sometime until you hear something better and the story goes on....its like a drug addiction where you need incremental doses to keep you happy.

My say is whatever you have, enjoy the music, don't sit and worry about 'soundstage','warmth',etc. Collect money slowly over time and buy better stuff not because you are unhappy about your existing system but because you can afford a better one.

P.S. I heard a lot of folks here saying they want the sound to be exactly as the musician wanted it to be but how will you know how a instrument sounds unless you are actively listening to live music. Are all audiophiles also active live music listeners ?

right - how many have really seen concerts? of their favorite genour?

 

[square_wave]

Satisfaction is highly relative to options. If you had a lowly 2-in-1 stereo you will enjoy it and be satisfied with it until you heard something better. Then you think about it, research it and go and buy the 'better' stuff and enjoy it for sometime until you hear something better and the story goes on....its like a drug addiction where you need incremental doses to keep you happy.

My say is whatever you have, enjoy the music, don't sit and worry about 'soundstage','warmth',etc. Collect money slowly over time and buy better stuff not because you are unhappy about your existing system but because you can afford a better one.

P.S. I heard a lot of folks here saying they want the sound to be exactly as the musician wanted it to be but how will you know how a instrument sounds unless you are actively listening to live music. Are all audiophiles also active live music listeners ?

Not so difficult if you listen.

A stradiverius violin may sound a bit different from a Hofner. A fender guitar may have a different tone from a Gibson. A Steinway piano may be a bit different from a Bosendorfer or Baldwin. But if you listen enough you get an idea when they sound alright or not.

I routinely attend Live Jazz/Rock in Bangalore. Been to quite a few classical concerts too. And of course the large scale rock concerts which happen at palace grounds. The ones at palace grounds are not tonally correct / accurate due to the sub standard PA equipment in use though. Most of my acquaintance with instruments and voice is due to hanging around in recording studios during my twenties.

My measure of a hifi gear is its ability to reproduce tonally correct sound. True tone and timbre. This is the first criterion. Then comes all the other things like dynamics/soundstage/focus etc.. The first criterion is the most difficult to achieve. Hence my total dislike for AV gear for music. Most mid-fi gear made by mainstream brands cannot get this very important factor right.

They make a stradiverius sound like a some electronic violin. The Steinway sounds like a casio.a Trumpet interpretation by Miles will screech or sound rolled off. Never right !

Custom made audio gear in India by great guys like Viren Bakshi of Lyrita, Siva of Corrson, Audire and some other small/niche manufacturers from the west although not so expensive get this essential criterion right. If you want good performance without breaking a bank, try them out.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi guys,
If u dont fall for the marketing and dont keep evaluating your gear and comparing to the other guys gear then YES we will all have the money to be satisfied. Naturally i loosely refer to 'all' as i haven't the faintest clue of the finances of anyone in here.

As for myself i spend as my pocket allows. Till the 90s i always had relatively mid priced gear/pre owned gear and was very happy spending a lot on music. At the time i did not have too many audiophile friends, no forums and had a long list of priorities and HIFI came lower in the chain.

Much later as my wallet allowed (mid 30s) i started venturing into ascertaining for myself what Hi End (once again relative) really was. Initially it was just a curiosity but slowly I started feeling a desperate desire to really upgrade.

Today in my 40s with decent finances & no real responsibilities i dont mind indulging myself if i find something good.

One point to note : My combined music collection (old home+ current apt) costs more than even my current set up. Point of stating this is that i find tons of guys in bbay with far better gear(read costlier gear, nned not be always better gear) but a collection of 25/30 cds!!!!!!!!! To my mind he is a HIFI freak and i tend to think I am not.

Rgds

 

[thevortex]

Hi guys,
If u dont fall for the marketing and dont keep evaluating your gear and comparing to the other guys gear then YES we will all have the money to be satisfied. Naturally i loosely refer to 'all' as i haven't the faintest clue of the finances of anyone in here.

As for myself i spend as my pocket allows. Till the 90s i always had relatively mid priced gear/pre owned gear and was very happy spending a lot on music. At the time i did not have too many audiophile friends, no forums and had a long list of priorities and HIFI came lower in the chain.

Much later as my wallet allowed (mid 30s) i started venturing into ascertaining for myself what Hi End (once again relative) really was. Initially it was just a curiosity but slowly I started feeling a desperate desire to really upgrade.

Today in my 40s with decent finances & no real responsibilities i dont mind indulging myself if i find something good.

One point to note : My combined music collection (old home+ current apt) costs more than even my current set up. Point of stating this is that i find tons of guys in bbay with far better gear(read costlier gear, nned not be always better gear) but a collection of 25/30 cds!!!!!!!!! To my mind he is a HIFI freak and i tend to think I am not.

Rgds

Very well put, Dinyaar.

On the subject in question, I think it is very hard for people to be 'audiophiles' in the truest sense (whatever that may mean) in India.

You want to critically listen to music? No ceiling fans mate! That is anathema. What do you need? An air conditioner. No, a window air conditioner will not do. It puts out a lot of noise. So, yes, a Split Air Conditioner is called for. Now when you are done spending for that in addition to your Hi fi gear, you might have to worry about whether your room is constructed keeping in mind the bass nodes and all that? But of course it is not.

My point is - anybody can be an audiophile as long it is clear that listening to reproduced music is all about compromises. As long as one has an active imagination, one can match what we are hearing with live concerts or whatever it is we want to compare it to. The moment this imagination goes, we are stuck in a rut. And our mind figures it is time for an upgrade.

Just my 2 rupees.

 

[deba]

The definition of best quality audio is abstract. Therefore buy equipments within your budget and enjoy and be happy with it. I have struggled to find which is the best and perfect audio and at the end its complete frustration for me.

So go ahead and enjoy your musicif you are satisfied with your equipment than you have the best equipment.:lol:

 

[pungan]

I am in same situation as you guys. I am 26 years Old. I have great interest in music, movies as well as building my computer system.

Since I joined in as software engg. 3 years ago, I am upgrading my comp system over the years. It is now good built still no where near high end system, spend almost 1L upgrading over the years.

Now I thought system good enough , time to upgrade to audio- video parts. so finally I have bought my first AVR Denon 2310. Had to hear lot from family member spending that much cash on device (in their terms) that only used to connect other devices, but they have no idea what it feels when you listen the sound , feels like you are transported to state of trance.

Hope one day I will have enough money to build the dream system.

 

[sentinel]

How many of you have not heard "Ye aakaashwani hai ..... aur aap sun rahe hai.........................." on low quality AM radio. The way the voice truely mixes with the noise and the sound that emits from so called "Transistor" gives me such a pleasant feeling. This is antiaudiophile sound but gives such a pleasant feeling that even FM radio doesnt give me. Though i dont listen to this for more than 5 minutes it just takes you back in time and makes one happy.
So it is not that only audiophile sound makes me happy:yahoo:

 

[thevortex]

How many of you have not heard "Ye aakaashwani hai ..... aur aap sun rahe hai.........................." on low quality AM radio. The way the voice truely mixes with the noise and the sound that emits from so called "Transistor" gives me such a pleasant feeling. This is antiaudiophile sound but gives such a pleasant feeling that even FM radio doesnt give me. Though i dont listen to this for more than 5 minutes it just takes you back in time and makes one happy.
So it is not that only audiophile sound makes me happy:yahoo:

Absolutely. In my mind, that is what a true audiophile is.

He can enjoy the music - regardless of system. Only that he is aware of the limitations of the reproduction system. And it is just that he does not let these limitations detract from his enjoying of the music.

 

[square_wave]

A Primare I30(?) amp and Dynaudio floorstanders (dont' recall the model number).

With Dynaudio, anything below the contour series is not resolving enough. Even with the contour, you need a very good amplifier to make it sound good.
Quality power and lots of it. Otherwise the dyns will sound constipated.