1080P display problems on Intel H55 based HTPC build

[bansal98]

From what I understand, this looks like a HDID issue as Spirovious pointed out. Basically, when you connect you devices together with HDMI, they do a kind of hand-shake and tell each other about their capabilities. It looks like that Philips TV is telling the PC that it can only take 720p signal and that's what the PC is feeding it. One way to avoid it is to NOT set anything to auto mode. Since you have already set your PC to 1080p mode, see if you can find similar setting in the TV to pick the same resolution. Basically, you don't want the TV to assume anything.

 

[spirovious]

This looks a problem of graphics & not LCD.

 

[venkatcr]

The image shown in (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9020/picture014ot.jpg), to me, looks like a regular low resolution image. Nearer to 480i or so.

Again, I am guessing, but is it possible that the images sent by the HTPC is being scaled down?

Cheers

 

[digitalv]

Thanks for all your responses. This sure looks like an EDID issue.

I tried reading the EDID through MonInfo but looks like MonInfo is not capable of reading the EDID via HDMI.

Any idea how to read the TV's EDID information via HDMI?

Btw... Here the details MonInfo derived for the VGA I/P from registry. Even that looks outdated!

Monitor
Model name............... Philips
Windows description...... Philips 105S (105S2)
Manufacturer............. Philips
Plug and Play ID......... PHL0001
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2007, ISO week 48
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Analog 0.700,0.000 (0.7V p-p)
Sync input support....... Separate
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 710 x 400 mm (32.1 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... None
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... n/a

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.617 - Ry 0.334
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.283 - Gy 0.590
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.143 - By 0.086
White point (default).... Wx 0.284 - Wy 0.295
Additional descriptors... Color management

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 31-80kHz
Vertical scan range...... 60-85Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 100MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 720x400p at 85Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x400" 35.500 720 756 828 936 400 401 404 446 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1280x768p at 57Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x768" 68.250 1280 1328 1360 1529 768 771 778 790 -hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported
720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 72Hz - VESA
640 x 480p at 75Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 72Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 75Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 70Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 75Hz - VESA
640 x 480p at 85Hz - VESA STD
800 x 600p at 85Hz - VESA STD
1024 x 768p at 85Hz - VESA STD
1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1360 x 765p at 60Hz - VESA STD

Report information
Date generated........... 7/17/2010
Software revision........ 2.52.0.857
Data source.............. Registry-Active
Operating system......... 6.1.7600.2

Raw data
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16,48,4B,AD,CE,00,31,59,45,59,61,59,81,80,8B,C0,01,01,01,01,01,01,DE,0D,D0,D8,20,90,2E,10,24,48,
13,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,18,A9,1A,00,F9,50,00,16,30,30,20,37,00,C6,90,21,00,00,00,00,00,00,FC,00,50,
68,69,6C,69,70,73,0A,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FD,00,3C,55,1F,50,0A,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,E7

 

[jayad08]

have u checked the graphics options in the BIOS too..
check the BIOS manual also..it maybe that features supported by the onboard graphics are not fully enabled..

Also try to locate the signal info on the monitor if possible.. if not provided via remote, some manufacturers have it through a series of key combinations..search it over the internet..
that ways atleast you would be sure that the signal is indeed lesser than 1080p

debugging the signal exchange for EDID over HDMI.. whoa :lol: you guys have gone quite far..

 

[digitalv]

@Jayad08
I've checked the BIOS options thoroughly. No special settings for 1080P HDMI :-(

The info button accessible from remote shows the signal as 1080P.

 

[cmsajith]

Thanks for all your responses. This sure looks like an EDID issue.

I tried reading the EDID through MonInfo but looks like MonInfo is not capable of reading the EDID via HDMI.

Any idea how to read the TV's EDID information via HDMI?

Btw... Here the details MonInfo derived for the VGA I/P from registry. Even that looks outdated!

From the EDID info, it seems it supports only upto 720p with 60Hz timing (PC). Check the 1080p timing and try reducing the timing to 30Hz to make it near to the video. Correct me if i am wrong. Is the native resolution of the panel is 1900 x 1080?

1024 x 768p at 85Hz - VESA STD
1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1360 x 765p at 60Hz - VESA STD

....
Native/preferred timing.. 720x400p at 85Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x400" 35.500 720 756 828 936 400 401 404 446 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1280x768p at 57Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x768" 68.250 1280 1328 1360 1529 768 771 778 790 -hsync -vsync

 

[thevortex]

Late on the uptake on this thread. So, does this look like a motherboard related issue in this case?

 

[spirovious]

I can say I am lucky to get 1080p on my Phil 5609.No issues.

 

[server3249]

When you have the TV connected by HDMI, can you check the resolution and tell us what it says there (in Windows)? It looks like you're getting like 640*480 on the TV..

 

[digitalv]

When you have the TV connected by HDMI, can you check the resolution and tell us what it says there (in Windows)? It looks like you're getting like 640*480 on the TV..

Windows, XBMC reports 1920 x 1080 and the TV displays receipt of 1080P signal (Info button). In the "Unscaled" mode where the pixel mapping is 1:1, the display would not fill the screen if it receives anything less than 1920 x 1080

I can say I am lucky to get 1080p on my Phil 5609.No issues.

Great to know that your's don't have this problem! A few questions though.

1) Do you receive the same picture quality with PC mode ON and OFF: I've no problem of distortion with PC mode ON but in this mode, all the HD Pixel Precise functions are unfortunately inactive. HD Pixel Precise seems to do a great job of reducing film judder which I'm very sensitive to. But as I said before, once I switch the TV's PC mode to OFF to make use of the HD Pixel Precise functions, the jagged edges reappear however well I tweak the HD Pixel Precise settings.

2) What does Windows report as your monitor (TV) when connected through HDMI. Mine shows some old Philips CRT monitor ID. EDID dump shared above confirms it.

From the EDID info, it seems it supports only upto 720p with 60Hz timing (PC). Check the 1080p timing and try reducing the timing to 30Hz to make it near to the video. Correct me if i am wrong. Is the native resolution of the panel is 1900 x 1080?

I've tried all available refresh rates from 60Hz down to 23Hz.
The native resolution of the panel is indeed 1920x1080 from the spec sheet.

Late on the uptake on this thread. So, does this look like a motherboard related issue in this case?

Still not sure...Many users have reported this problem on various motherboards. The usual suspect is Windows 7 followed by H55 followed by TV's EDID.


I'm planning to try WinXP and Linux as soon as I find some time. I already tried XBMC live boot from a USB stick but it fails to go above 800x600 resolution.

 

[spirovious]

Great to know that your's don't have this problem! A few questions though.

1) Do you receive the same picture quality with PC mode ON and OFF: I've no problem of distortion with PC mode ON but in this mode, all the HD Pixel Precise functions are unfortunately inactive. HD Pixel Precise seems to do a great job of reducing film judder which I'm very sensitive to. But as I said before, once I switch the TV's PC mode to OFF to make use of the HD Pixel Precise functions, the jagged edges reappear however well I tweak the HD Pixel Precise settings.

2) What does Windows report as your monitor (TV) when connected through HDMI. Mine shows some old Philips CRT monitor ID. EDID dump shared above confirms it.

1.Well I dont have PC mode.I connected HDMI in unscaled mode & TV shows 2 options in format(widescreen & 4:3).When I press info,I can see 1080p.I feel its very simple with 5609.

2.Windows(XP & 7 both)shows as Digital Display with 1080p max.

 

[digitalv]

1.Well I dont have PC mode.I connected HDMI in unscaled mode & TV shows 2 options in format(widescreen & 4:3).When I press info,I can see 1080p.I feel its very simple with 5609.

Are you sure that you don't have PC mode? I just downloaded the user manual of 32PFL5609/98 and it mentions PC mode on Page 10 of the user manual.

[PC mode] : Adjusts picture settings
when a PC is connected to the TV.

The PC Mode ON/OFF control resides in the HDNM submenu. Kindly have a look if you have an easter egg there...

2.Windows(XP & 7 both)shows as Digital Display with 1080p max.

When you find time, Could you please post a screenshot of the Device Manager with monitor section expanded.

 

[spirovious]

I checked the manual & PC mode comes after Pixel plus option,But I cant see any option in my LCD menu.I have Light sensor option next to Pixel plus.I checked VGA mode,where I can see vverticl & Horizontal shift option.

So I confirm,my LCD dont have PC mode eventhough manual says which is common.
Any other way to check PC mode?

Its in win7,in XP nvidia detects Philips as Digital display.

 

[thevortex]

Digitalv - why dont you try a Linux Live CD if you suspect something is going on with the Operating System. There are so many options out there. If you want all multimedia configured out of the box, running perfectly why dont you download and burn a CD of Linux Mint and try it out as a Live CD. That should tell you whether it is an OS problem.

If you still have the problem with Linux, then I guess you can narrow the problem down to the chipset and/or the TV.

 

[jayad08]

Another option which still you need to check is another 1080p source..
Try and borrow a 1080p DVDp/Media Player/BDPlayer from any of your relatives/friends..or ask one of the members of HFV, many of them are based in Bangalore..
Before removing Win 7 check whether there is any issue with the TV

 

[digitalv]

Thanks Spirovious for those screen shots. Mine definitely looks different and says Philips 105 S2. Here is the screenshot.

I'm not sure why PC mode is not available on your TV.
Are you running the latest firmware? But if I were you, I would not upgrade the firmware if there are no known issues and everything is functioning already like clockwork.

Digitalv - why dont you try a Linux Live CD if you suspect something is going on with the Operating System. There are so many options out there. If you want all multimedia configured out of the box, running perfectly why dont you download and burn a CD of Linux Mint and try it out as a Live CD. That should tell you whether it is an OS problem.

If you still have the problem with Linux, then I guess you can narrow the problem down to the chipset and/or the TV.

Thanks you for the suggestions. I was getting confused in the ocean of Live Linux CD's and didn't know which one would support 1080 out-of-the-box. Downloading Live-CD version of Linux Mint 9 now and should be able to try it over the weekend.

Another option which still you need to check is another 1080p source..
Try and borrow a 1080p DVDp/Media Player/BDPlayer from any of your relatives/friends..or ask one of the members of HFV, many of them are based in Bangalore..
Before removing Win 7 check whether there is any issue with the TV

Thanks again...That would be my last resort since I don't know anyone who has a 1080P source to share. If any of the Blore members are willing to help, I'd be highly obliged. I stay near Sarjapur signal and I can obviously pick you up and leave you back. Give me a shout on PM if you are game.


BTW here is what EDID manager pulled out (from registry)

Time: 3:30:20 PM
Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010
EDID Manager Version: 1.0.0.14
___________________________________________________________________

Block 0 (EDID Base Block), Bytes 0 - 127, 128 BYTES OF EDID CODE:

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
000 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 41 0C
010 | 01 00 01 01 01 01 06 13 01 03
020 | 80 47 28 78 8A 28 8E 9E 55 48
030 | 97 24 16 48 4B AD CE 00 8B C0
040 | 81 80 A9 40 01 01 01 01 01 01
050 | 01 01 01 01 02 3A 80 18 71 38
060 | 2D 40 58 2C 45 00 00 D0 52 00
070 | 00 1E 02 3A 80 D0 72 38 2D 40
080 | 10 2C 45 80 00 D0 52 00 00 1E
090 | 00 00 00 FC 00 50 68 69 6C 69
100 | 70 73 0A 20 20 20 20 20 00 00
110 | 00 FD 00 2F 55 1F 50 0E 00 0A
120 | 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 78

(8-9) ID Manufacture Name : PHL
(10-11) ID Product Code : 0001
(12-15) ID Serial Number : N/A
(16) Week of Manufacture : 6
(17) Year of Manufacture : 2009

(18) EDID Version Number : 1
(19) EDID Revision Number: 3

(20) Video Input Definition : Digital
(21) Maximum Horizontal Image Size: 71 cm
(22) Maximum Vertical Image Size : 40 cm
(23) Display Gamma : 2.20
(24) Power Management and Supported Feature(s):
Standby, RGB Color, Non-sRGB, Preferred Timing Mode

(25-34) Color Characteristics
Red Chromaticity : Rx = 0.617 Ry = 0.330
Green Chromaticity : Gx = 0.283 Gy = 0.586
Blue Chromaticity : Bx = 0.143 By = 0.086
Default White Point: Wx = 0.284 Wy = 0.291

(35) Established Timings I

720 x 400 @ 70Hz (IBM, VGA)
640 x 480 @ 60Hz (IBM, VGA)
640 x 480 @ 72Hz (VESA)
640 x 480 @ 75Hz (VESA)
800 x 600 @ 60Hz (VESA)

(36) Established Timings II

800 x 600 @ 72Hz (VESA)
800 x 600 @ 75Hz (VESA)
1024 x 768 @ 60Hz (VESA)
1024 x 768 @ 70Hz(VESA)
1024 x 768 @ 75Hz (VESA)

(37) Manufacturer's Timings (Not Used)

(38-53) Standard Timings

1360x765 @ 60 Hz (16:9 Aspect Ratio)
1280x1024 @ 60 Hz (5:4 Aspect Ratio)
1600x1200 @ 60 Hz (4:3 Aspect Ratio)

(54-71) Detailed Descriptor #1: Preferred Detailed Timing (1920x1080 @ 60Hz)

Pixel Clock : 148.5 MHz
Horizontal Image Size : 1280 mm
Vertical Image Size : 720 mm
Refresh Mode : Non-interlaced
Normal Display, No Stereo

Horizontal:
Active Time : 1920 Pixels
Blanking Time : 280 Pixels
Sync Offset : 88 Pixels
Sync Pulse Width: 44 Pixels
Border : 0 Pixels
Frequency : 67 kHz

Vertical:
Active Time : 1080 Lines
Blanking Time : 45 Lines
Sync Offset : 4 Lines
Sync Pulse Width: 5 Lines
Border : 0 Lines

Digital Separate, Horizontal Polarity (+), Vertical Polarity (+)

Modeline: "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

(72-89) Detailed Descriptor #2: Detailed Timing (1920x1080 @ 50Hz)

Pixel Clock : 148.5 MHz
Horizontal Image Size : 1280 mm
Vertical Image Size : 720 mm
Refresh Mode : Non-interlaced
Normal Display, No Stereo

Horizontal:
Active Time : 1920 Pixels
Blanking Time : 720 Pixels
Sync Offset : 528 Pixels
Sync Pulse Width: 44 Pixels
Border : 0 Pixels
Frequency : 56 kHz

Vertical:
Active Time : 1080 Lines
Blanking Time : 45 Lines
Sync Offset : 4 Lines
Sync Pulse Width: 5 Lines
Border : 0 Lines

Digital Separate, Horizontal Polarity (+), Vertical Polarity (+)

Modeline: "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

(90-107) Detailed Descriptor #3: Monitor Name

Monitor Name: Philips

(108-125) Detailed Descriptor #4: Monitor Range Limits

Horizontal Scan Range: 31kHz-80kHz
Vertical Scan Range : 47Hz-85Hz
Supported Pixel Clock: 140 MHz
Secondary GTF : Not Supported

(126-127) Extension Flag and Checksum

Extension Block(s) : 1
Checksum Value : 120

___________________________________________________________________

System Information Summary:

Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU 530 @ 2.93GHz
Operating System : Microsoft Windows 7 Enterprise
OS Version : 6.1.7600
Service Pack : 0.0

Video Controler:

Device ID : VideoController1
Name : Intel(R) HD Graphics
Adapter Compatibility: Intel Corporation
Video Processor : Intel(R) HD Graphics (Core i3)
Video RAM : 1.72 GB (1,843,130,368 Bytes)
Availability : Running or Full Power
Driver Version : 8.15.10.2141
PNP Device ID : PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0042&SUBSYS_D0001458&REV_12\3&13C0B0C5&0&10
Resolution : 1920x1080
Max Refresh Rate : 75 Hz
Min Refresh Rate : 23 Hz
Current Refresh Rate : 60 Hz
Current Scan Mode : None-Interlaced
Status : OK

 

[spirovious]

Hi Digitalv,someone on forum upgraded FW & found it had few down side.He wanted to revert,but didnt have original.PC mode may not be my need too.
Your screenshot shows 1080 setteng recommended,still there is a problem.Strange.

 

[digitalv]

I tried with Live versions of Mint Linux and Element Linux and the visuals are a lot better than Windows 7 but the problem is still present but in a minor way.

Surprisingly Mint Linux detects my TV as 32" Philips and not 42". :sad:

I'm not sure what to make out of the above two observations though.

Also I lost HDMI audio and the MCE remote stopped responding with the above linux distros but I guess there must be some settings somewhere to get back HDMI audio and MCE remote functionality which I havent figured out yet.

 

[digitalv]

Update:

I finally got hold of a Blu-Ray player (Sony) to check and compare; the picture quality is simply awesome in almost every mode which I tried on the TV. No tearing, judder even in the PC mode...lol.

So to my relief the problem is NOT the TV and could be anywhere on the HTPC or it could even be the HDMI handshake between my TV and H55/I3-530 Combo.

Now to the next step of debugging...I'm thinking of adding a graphics card to see if the H55/I3-530 graphics is the culprit here.

Do you have any suggestions to choose between Nvidia and ATI with the criteria that DTS-MA & TrueHD Bit-streaming should be supported.

I've read that ATI rules the roost (as far as HTPC's goes) with the 5xxx cards but the low end 5450 cards exhibits edge distortion problems and the next higher card 5670 costs more than my motherboard..lol.

All suggestions are welcome but please keep in mind that flawless 1080P playback along with DTS-MA & TrueHD Bit-streaming and of course the best bang for the buck is the goal. Or in other words, I'm not a gamer to necessitate a high end video card for my HTPC.