24 bit Vinyl rips compared to original vinyl sound

[rohitmusic]

@ ROHIT is it true that most vinyl recording are in the 13 to 14 bit range ?

I have no idea buddy!

For me it is just another format part of my overall music experience.

I listen to music 1) on my laptop, 2) some CDs of my fav artists 3) some Vinyl that I come across 4) FM radio on my tuner..

It is like a "rice plate" thali hyeah:
A little bit of everything so we dont miss out on anything.

IMHO, every format has a reason for its existence and every format has contributed something to the other format.

If ever we meet all the formats as beings they would tell us we all are siblings of a family and live harmoniously

Its like asking a parent which is your fav child.
The one that is old school or the one that is new age and prefers convenience.. I think there is no harm trying all formats just to make our whole musical experience more holistic. At the end we grow over the format war and have a renewed respect for each format. Every format has a special place that can not be replaced by the other format...

It is all very experiential and each format should get credit for its invention and existence. IMHO this is the best way we can respect the format itself and appreciate its usage.

Just lingering thoughts of my mind which could be very well part of my diary... but you could read this as a music conversation shared over coffee or the drink of your choice...

Cheers!

 

[greenhorn]

My argument is not that vinyl captures everything. In fact, the sort of records i get, and the sort of equipment that I have, it may often be outperformed by my mobile phone.

My point is about the content on the records, analog compression due to the loudess wars is the villain here, and I'm going to use photoshop as the analogy here.


Suppose I like pin up posters of marilyn monroe, raquel welch, and dames of that period.
We also know that all posters of celebrities published today are heavily photoshopped. No part of the anatomy is left untouched.

Suppose modern poster companies release "new and improved" versions of the posters of these ladies every year. We are looking at a set of very unfaithful reproductions - exaggerated shapes, overblown contrast, artificial detail. If i went on amazon or google and were to look for a digital version of these ladies images, most websites would use the latest stock sources, and consequently, not the originals. If i had to get hold of the pictures of how they actually looked, I would be looking at buying the original posters themselves, or maybe for some scans of the original pictures. Not because the photography or the equipment was better, but because what they captured, has not been adulterated as much as the other alternatives.


On the other hand, for the latest models, there is no point buying an actual paper magazine, or poster, because the digital sources are already available online.

I am neutral to digital vs analog. I just like listening to music the way it was recorded by the artist originally , and not some sound engineer who thinks he can do better

 

[greenhorn]

May be for digital heads like me will prefer a USB turntable like this >Usb Turntable Electronics Turntables - Shopping.com

Noooo Don't buy those. Most are inferior turntables with inferior preamps and ordinary ADC sections.
Buy a proper TT (or if you have budget constraints, a vintage one)
if you want to connect it to a computer (though I wouldnt recommend it) , buy a behringer UFO202 or something like that

 

[manoj.p]

When one compared Vinyl vs CD, does it occur to them that they are rather comparing "mastering" than the format itself? I mean, many people agree that a vinyl converted to CD will sound identical provided played on the same setup.

 

[Nikhil]

My point is not analogue vs Digital, poor digital recording (like most of T-series hindi movies) sounds even worse than vinyl.
Since I don't have a vinyl set up, I just want to know if I can get a taste of Vinyl by using 24 bit Vinyl rips available on internet.
I'm not taking about digital remastering, these rips contains all the noises of vinyl sound.
...

Vinyl rips can be very good but a lot depends on your DAC + Stereo chain to achieve what you have in mind.
IMO vinyl rips are much better than CD when done right. However as always the original "Source" makes a difference.

There are quite a few audio fans abroad who regularly convert their vinyl to digital for the sake of convenience/storage etc.
However like I said implementation is key and many of these setups can cost a pretty penny.

 

[pathakajit]

Vinyl rips sound very good when done right.

Most of my flac files seem to have originated from vinyl. (60s music/psychedelic rock)

While ripping vinyl, I prefer to run the rips through filters for reducing exaggerated hiss/pops/clicks of scuffed LPs and also rid turntable rumble (if any). This vastly improves the listening experience..

 

[captrajesh]

While ripping vinyl, I prefer to run the rips through filters for reducing exaggerated hiss/pops/clicks of scuffed LPs and also rid turntable rumble (if any). This vastly improves the listening experience..

FM Murali_n does a fantastic job of removing all these. I've listened to his vinyl rips and they sounded fabulous.

 

[Shivam]

I don't have a vinyl set up but I do like to get a taste of vinyl sound. Theres lot of vinyl track rips available as Flac 24-bit / 96kHz Vinyl Rip. I just want to know from them who has vinyl set up, does these tracks sound exactly like the vinyl ?

Thanks .....

I have made some 24/96 flac from some of my vinyls using a Linn LP12 based setup. These flac files when played through Linn Akurate DS used to sound exactly the same on my system as the original vinyls.

(I no longer use the turntable and I have sold off the Akurate DS many months back.)

 

[koushik]

I would like to share my idea and experience, although very limited.

When you rip a vinyl-
1. Depends on the turntable you play the vinyl. The better the turntable, preamp and phono the better sound quality will reach to the ADC
2. Depends on ADC.
3. There is a change in format completely- analog to digital. So no option of error correction.


When you rip CDs-
1. If done through CD/DVD drive of computer, doesn't depend on the quality of it.
2. No converter is involved (DAC/ADC) hence no chance of degradation in this part.
3. Format basically remains same, digital. As time domain is not application during rip, bit perfect ripping software (like EAC) would rip every bit on CD or HDD perfectly. Error correction option is there as the formats are same and the ripping need not happen in real time.


When you playback vinyl rip:
Here I stay neutral and place my point. I am not from the camp that vinyl sounds more "analog", "Organic" etc and neither from the other camp. So, iff vinyls sound different (and better) then you will not get that charm after ripping it in 24 bits because, however perfect the rip is, it will be played back by the same digital rigs.
Let me try to put my thoughts in word: If the digital rig is incapable of reproducing organic(and analog) like sound inspite of recording organic, analog voices (of singers) and analog instruments in the studio; how can it sound like vinyl after being ripped from vinyl?
(The last portion was tough to put in words, hope it conveys what I meant!)

 

[rsud]

A very broad and sweeping statement that is also completely wrong seeing back in the vinyl days there did not exist equipment or microphones to capture everything that was actually taking place either in the studio or even in a live setting.

No offence to anybody, if you like vinyl then by all means stick with it, just don't make it out to be something that it is clearly not.

Quite the opposite. Older recording equipment from the 50's / 60's often captured quite a bit more detail than modern analogue (and digital) recordings primarily because of more complex and signal degrading circuitry in modern recording equipment that provides more "convenience".

Example, rather than using a simple minimalistic sound board and properly placing microphones to listen for null nodes, etc. now you have complex sound boards with a dearth of pots and other controls to adjust and "enhance" every aspect of the signal from the mics. Add to that the lost (being lost) art of properly placing microphones cause its just easy to turn a pot....

The end result is more controls but much more damage to the original audio signal as it flows through all the extra electronics.

Its much more complex than just "...if you like vinyl... " statement of yours, no offense.

 

[rsud]

post deleted - moderator

 

[musicbee]

Post Deleted - Moderator

 

[Rupam]

I have to admit that I really don't enjoy "old" recordings. Even when the interpretation is "superior", "natural" and the playing inspired, and the sound is as natural as possible because of some "correct mic placing" the sound quality usually puts me off to such an extent that I prefer to stick to a more contemporary recording - even if it is inferior, from a performance point of view. I don't mean that I will dump a 1950s Wilhelm Kempff Beethoven recording for a recent Lang Lang - I think I'd rather listen to static than that - but I would take many others in his place, if only because the actual recording is so much better. A tinny sound in a shallow acoustic is alright from time to time, but generally speaking I like to hear a piano sound like a piano. That's half the pleasure, isn't it?

 

[rsud]

Post Deleted - Moderator

 

[sidvee]

Guys - please cool down the discussion - do not want a seriously OT thread. I have deleted what I believe are posts that can lead to OT.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[venkatcr]

Let me try to put my thoughts in word: If the digital rig is incapable of reproducing organic(and analog) like sound inspite of recording organic, analog voices (of singers) and analog instruments in the studio; how can it sound like vinyl after being ripped from vinyl?

If you have read my first post, you will understand this statement is, in a way, incorrect.

The concept of analog and digital is more in our heads. Ultimately, when played, sound is always analog (and organic, if you like) as that is the only format our ears understand. If you take pure digital data, amplify it and play it, all you will hear are clicks.

The difference is in storage. In analog storage, sound is stored as a continuous wave form. In digital storage, the continuous wave form in broken into discreet data points and stored. During playback, these discreet data points are combined to form the continuous wave form.

The point is this. If done right, even highly sensitive wave form analyzers cannot differentiate between the original analog wave form, and the resultant wave form after the conversion. The data points are so close to each other that it is impossible to tell if it is a analog wave form or not. So sound engineers and scientists dismiss the analog-digital argument as something they don't understand. If there is some difference, it is at frequencies well beyond the capacity of the human ears to hear.

Their contention is this. Our instruments show no difference. Your ears CANNOT hear or comprehend the difference. So what are you talking about?

And, that is where subjectivity and endless arguments come in.

In any case all these points are moot. Going forward, the days of analog storage and recording is dead. Even Nagra, which was respected as the ultimate tape recorder in the world, has stoped it's production and has switched over completely to digital recording and storage. Most major studios have thrown away their tapes, and nearly all masters are in digital format today.

But, of you like vinyl, please do enjoy it. What is the harm in that?

Cheers

And, Musicbee, this thread is moving along well. I am sure our members will keep a productive discussion going forward. Your inputs will certainly be appreciated.

Cheers Again.

 

[koushik]

Hi Venkat,

You got me completely wrong or may be I couldn't able to explain it properly. I am not saying that analog will sound inferior, superior or even different. What I meant is that, if OP thinks that Vinyl is of something else and sounds different (and more analog, organic to him) then he will not get THAT taste when he rips it from vinyl and listen through digital medium i.e. HDD/CD -> DAC. This is because it is already done that way. It is already a copy of analog (organic) wave form.

And for me, as my signature would suggests, its all digital.