I am with you on this.....
"4K TV and 4K Content" -Chicken and Egg Problem
- Thread starter amit.nagar
- Start date
I am with you on this.....
Scanned content wouldn't be able to deliver native 4k resolution IMO and secondly like you already said that production of 4K isn't that tough. However, their broadcasting will be the real issue. And till date in India we even dont have 1080p or actual 3D content ready for broadcasting so thinking about aired 4k content is like a dream and nothing else for now!
This issue is even beyond the chicken & egg problem since transmitting native 4k content is way tougher than its production for manufacturers. I think tech companies need to do a lot of hard work on broadcasting techniques instead.
Actually you can get 4k content by re mastering it from a film .Sure it won't be as good as todays hollywood digital cameras which have even higher color gamut and much better low light sensitivity.
amit.nagar
New Member
Thank you all for joining this discussion. What I think, it is a nice step by 4K TV manufacturers to introduce 4K TVs first. Think this way a normal digital camera can capture image in good amount of resolution, but we suffer to see the detail on even HD display. No doubt 4K content creation is although tough however, I am sure in the next few years there will be plenty.
I think 4k is a plan by the manufacturers to create new longterm business for Tvs and new business for the consumer electronics industry as a whole in the form of 4k BDPs, 4k AVRs etc.
We witnessed similar hype called 3D in the past 3 years. The standards for HDMI interface itself were changed forcing the consumers to upgrade all their audio/video kit just because of the audio return crap of HDMI1.4.
The 3D created such a hype that even smart phones were venturing into it.
Next came the "smart TV". Consumers did not show much interest.
Now another long term business strategy for them is 4k.
Imagine the task of the video upscaler when it has to upconvert a low resolution youtube video to 4k. Well, now you have business for video upscaling chip vendors like Faroujda, Anchorbay,marvel etc.
Anyway, I see the demise of plasma technology to be the end of sanity in the TV industry.
We witnessed similar hype called 3D in the past 3 years. The standards for HDMI interface itself were changed forcing the consumers to upgrade all their audio/video kit just because of the audio return crap of HDMI1.4.
The 3D created such a hype that even smart phones were venturing into it.
Next came the "smart TV". Consumers did not show much interest.
Now another long term business strategy for them is 4k.
Imagine the task of the video upscaler when it has to upconvert a low resolution youtube video to 4k. Well, now you have business for video upscaling chip vendors like Faroujda, Anchorbay,marvel etc.
Anyway, I see the demise of plasma technology to be the end of sanity in the TV industry.
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cooldude8888
Member
Anybody who says 4k is a significant step up in picture quality with the broadcasting standards we have needs to laughed at. 4k is a fad just like 3d is. OLED is the future but it won't be a realistic option till a couple of years at-least.
Since when "Broadcasting" became the standard in picture quality? It was never in competition because its known that broadcasting will use heavy compression to meet bandwidth needs. Right now, even for 1080p, the best pq one can have is Bluray.
Broadcasting always have lagged behind what's available in other media. Be it 480i vs VHS/Laserdisc/DVD. Does that mean we should have stuck with 480i all this time?
4K will happen, eventually. Thats where industry is moving because they see potential to make people buy again. Whether we like it or not. The biggest jump in picture quality may not be from resolution alone. But if they pass the DCI color gamut as spec in 4k, that will be a huge jump in picture quality.
Right now the problem with 4K content is not about the lack of 4K content but rather about how to deliver the 4K content to cosumers. There is a decent amount of 4K film content as most Hollywood studios are now mastering and shooting in 4K and they are also scanning their older titles in 4K. A few Indian films have also been scanned in 4K
As of now there is no clarity about how to delivery the 4K content to the masses, you either have to go for online delivery of content or physical media (Blu-ray, HDD, ect). Online delivery will not work for most people given the size of 4K files, so a physical media will be required. Current Blu-ray discs will not be able to fit a 4K movie, so new specs and higer capacity Blu-ray discs will be needed for 4K. We might even have to wait for a new format which would be better than Blu-ray for 4K.
A modern day 35mm film will have resolution equivalent to 4K or maybe even better.
If you have the $ for a 4K TV then go get it !! You can get some 4K content online, Youtube has some 4K videos too
As of now there is no clarity about how to delivery the 4K content to the masses, you either have to go for online delivery of content or physical media (Blu-ray, HDD, ect). Online delivery will not work for most people given the size of 4K files, so a physical media will be required. Current Blu-ray discs will not be able to fit a 4K movie, so new specs and higer capacity Blu-ray discs will be needed for 4K. We might even have to wait for a new format which would be better than Blu-ray for 4K.
A modern day 35mm film will have resolution equivalent to 4K or maybe even better.
If you have the $ for a 4K TV then go get it !! You can get some 4K content online, Youtube has some 4K videos too
just4kix
Well-Known Member
Modern day film, if scanned properly, can result into much better resolution, even 12mp per frame. It is the technology that can be limiting.
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This is just your opinion or better to say your insightful point of view. However, majority of people dont think that we need to laugh at introduction of 4k as neither 4k or 3d is a fad. Go behind the logic and market research and level of acceptance of these new technologies before posting such random statements.
4K is the content shown in Cinemas. Now its being brought in your home, in a much smaller screen. Is it really necessary? I don't know. Clarity would definitely increase manifold, but how many will be able to see it and differentiate it from Full HD from a respectable distance?
In case of broadcast of HD channels, high amount of bandwidth is required to transmit high definition content without too much compression to retain quality. That is the reason 1080i is the HD broadcast standard right now. Even for 1080p the bandwidth required is too much, so you can forget multiple channels with 4K broadcast in the near future. There could be 1 or 2 demo channels.
1080p - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There needs to be improvements in communication satellite bandwidth capacities for full and higher HD content to be broadcast in a cost-effective and reasonably affordable manner.
Unless someone figures out a much better size-ratio lossless compression algorithm, of course...
In case of broadcast of HD channels, high amount of bandwidth is required to transmit high definition content without too much compression to retain quality. That is the reason 1080i is the HD broadcast standard right now. Even for 1080p the bandwidth required is too much, so you can forget multiple channels with 4K broadcast in the near future. There could be 1 or 2 demo channels.
1080p - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There needs to be improvements in communication satellite bandwidth capacities for full and higher HD content to be broadcast in a cost-effective and reasonably affordable manner.
Unless someone figures out a much better size-ratio lossless compression algorithm, of course...
amit.nagar
New Member
I agree on the point that broadcasting of 4k is not so easy, but on the other hand it is not impossible too. Japan has announced that it will broadcast FIFA 2014 in 4K Japanese Broadcasters Announce 4K Coverage Of 2014 FIFA World Cup
cooldude8888
Member
4k can be a success provided manufacturers work hard to bring costs down.
4k can be a success provided content providers produce enough content in native 4k.
4k can be a success provided broadcasters find a compression method to deliver it to the consumers without drastically affecting original quality.
4k can be a success provided they find a viable alternative to Blu-Ray to put a 3 hour long movie on to a single disc.
Now there are far too many parties involved and far too many variables. To make 4k viable all over the globe you need a monumental effort from all parties involved be it the manufacturers, content providers, broadcasters etc. Now what people are not understanding is that the jump from HD to ultra-HD is going to be much more massive jump in bandwidth requirement than it is when compared to jumping from SD to HD.
The point is not so much about whether 4k ''can'' be a success or not rather the point is about the cost and effort involved in making it a success on a mass scale. Now even if 4k is a reality it will be a negligible upgrade in picture quality under 55".
OLED in comparison has the potential to be a worthy successor to plasma/LCD in the medium term. It is about time rather if with OLED. Right now the yields are too low and hence not profitable for manufacturers to produce OLED. The success of OLED has only one variable involved and that is the manufacturers and their ability to keep the costs in check. Now OLED with 4k, that is for another thread but i would like to just say that would be delicious with native 4k content at 65" and above .
4k can be a success provided content providers produce enough content in native 4k.
4k can be a success provided broadcasters find a compression method to deliver it to the consumers without drastically affecting original quality.
4k can be a success provided they find a viable alternative to Blu-Ray to put a 3 hour long movie on to a single disc.
Now there are far too many parties involved and far too many variables. To make 4k viable all over the globe you need a monumental effort from all parties involved be it the manufacturers, content providers, broadcasters etc. Now what people are not understanding is that the jump from HD to ultra-HD is going to be much more massive jump in bandwidth requirement than it is when compared to jumping from SD to HD.
The point is not so much about whether 4k ''can'' be a success or not rather the point is about the cost and effort involved in making it a success on a mass scale. Now even if 4k is a reality it will be a negligible upgrade in picture quality under 55".
OLED in comparison has the potential to be a worthy successor to plasma/LCD in the medium term. It is about time rather if with OLED. Right now the yields are too low and hence not profitable for manufacturers to produce OLED. The success of OLED has only one variable involved and that is the manufacturers and their ability to keep the costs in check. Now OLED with 4k, that is for another thread but i would like to just say that would be delicious with native 4k content at 65" and above .
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kholi_pankaj
New Member
@cooldude8888,
Point 1 - Relates more to economics of scale and finance - it will anyway happen in due course of time
Point 2 - Probably the easiest part of the equation - the cameras are already there - filmmakers just have to start using them to full capability (example - Red One cameras - pretty much the standard nowadays in high def movie making)
Point 3 - Toughest part of equation - will take the most time to work out. However, developments like H.256 Codec provide hope.
Point 4 - BDXLs perhaps - or HDDs will be a intermediate solution.
I think it is to your credit that you can see that 4K standard being domesticated will take more than one party to succeed - a cursory look at other threads give the impression that people are almost blaming LG and Sony for making Ultra HD TVs - that they are somehow responsible for making an advanced TV that still has no content to play with. I also agree that 4k screens will make sense in screens in 55 inches and above - I guess TV companies also realize that much.
As far as OLED TV is concerned, I believe that LG is the only TV maker that has seemed to conquer the insurmountable problems associated with making larger OLED screens. Their belief in WOLED seems to be paying off - yielding much better than the technologies that Samsung and Sony seem to have adopted. There is a news article about LG investing a huge USD 650 million into ramping up its OLED TV production and they have announced addition screen sizes - 40 inches and 70 inches for LG OLED TV. They seem to be succeeding where no one else is - at least for the moment.
Point 1 - Relates more to economics of scale and finance - it will anyway happen in due course of time
Point 2 - Probably the easiest part of the equation - the cameras are already there - filmmakers just have to start using them to full capability (example - Red One cameras - pretty much the standard nowadays in high def movie making)
Point 3 - Toughest part of equation - will take the most time to work out. However, developments like H.256 Codec provide hope.
Point 4 - BDXLs perhaps - or HDDs will be a intermediate solution.
I think it is to your credit that you can see that 4K standard being domesticated will take more than one party to succeed - a cursory look at other threads give the impression that people are almost blaming LG and Sony for making Ultra HD TVs - that they are somehow responsible for making an advanced TV that still has no content to play with. I also agree that 4k screens will make sense in screens in 55 inches and above - I guess TV companies also realize that much.
As far as OLED TV is concerned, I believe that LG is the only TV maker that has seemed to conquer the insurmountable problems associated with making larger OLED screens. Their belief in WOLED seems to be paying off - yielding much better than the technologies that Samsung and Sony seem to have adopted. There is a news article about LG investing a huge USD 650 million into ramping up its OLED TV production and they have announced addition screen sizes - 40 inches and 70 inches for LG OLED TV. They seem to be succeeding where no one else is - at least for the moment.
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