5.1 + AVR setup with BS speakers recommendations

[nSinghal]

After much consideration, I've realised that I have no option but to use BS instead of FS as there'd be no space left to place them after the 133" screen rolls down. The only place I have left for speakers is the 18" or so below the screen. I realize its not the most optimum placement for speakers to put them on floor level but its either that or go with the much smaller 106" screen which the PJ itself won't be able to project from my required distance (minimum it'd be 120" in the 25" long room but that'd also make enough space for one FS only). Even if I somehow get the FS in the room by placing them along the left and right wall (ahead of the two doors on left and right), the Center will still have to be placed below the screen. Not really going to get the best height there either.

So, BS 5.1 setup with avr is what I have to go with. Here's more details about the requirements...

• Room is L shaped and the dimensions are appx 25'x16' excluding the 5' long L portion.
• Budget is appx 100k total (give or take) for both the speakers and the AVR.
• Usage would be 60-70% TV (Tata sky HD/SD and blurays), 30% music and some gaming.
• Source. Music, I'm not an audiophile so max content would be iTunes mp3s (think they're atleast 256 Kbps, maybe 320. not sure). For TV, it'll be tata sky HD for cable channels and ps3 for blurays and DVDs.
• Not an expert in hifi terminoligies here, but I think my preference would be speakers which aren't too bright. High frequency treble does something weird to my eardrums even at moderately high volume.
• Avr requirements would be as many hdmi inputs as possible (minimum 4, preferably 5+) and good enough to drive whatever bookshelves I choose. Built in airplay is preferred for ease of use but not totally required as I'll be getting an Apple TV anyways.
• No intentions of buying 2.0+avr for now and then adding more later. Much more comfortable with one time purchase. If going by the "add later" route, I'll just end up using the 2.0 setup.

Currently considering wharfedale 10.2 setup (like this one ). Or something similar with KEF Q300 series. Haven't auditioned anything but will be making a trip to Bass n treble (M G road) in a day or two and check out whatever they can provide me. Any other bookshelf I should be looking into? Don't want to demo too many setups as all it'll do is confuse me even more. Also, am too busy on the weekdays (someone's gotta work to pay for all this!) to go and check out everything available in my budget and most speaker shops are closed on Sundays (my only day off). So would like to keep the audition trips to minimum. Also don't have much time left to finalise the speakers as I need to get the design of cabinet below the TV finished yesterday already. Don't want to do that before I choose my speakers though.

Here's a few pics to give you guys a better idea of my new room...

For general bed viewing/listening..

For movies/blu ray viewings...
I intend to pull the recliners in front of the bed for such occasions..

Pics of the room in its current condition.
(The door on the right is now half in width as I've replaced it with twin door design which will leave me a few more inches to spare there)

 

[just4kix]

After much consideration, I've realised that I have no option but to use BS instead of FS as there'd be no space left to place them after the 133" screen rolls down. The only place I have left for speakers is the 18" or so below the screen. I realize its not the most optimum placement for speakers to put them on floor level but its either that or go with the much smaller 106" screen which the PJ itself won't be able to project from my required distance (minimum it'd be 120" in the 25" long room but that'd also make enough space for one FS only). Even if I somehow get the FS in the room by placing them along the left and right wall (ahead of the two doors on left and right), the Center will still have to be placed below the screen. Not really going to get the best height there either.

So, BS 5.1 setup with avr is what I have to go with. Here's more details about the requirements...

• Room is L shaped and the dimensions are appx 25'x16' excluding the 5' long L portion.
• Budget is appx 100k total (give or take) for both the speakers and the AVR.
• Usage would be 60-70% TV (Tata sky HD/SD and blurays), 30% music and some gaming.
• Source. Music, I'm not an audiophile so max content would be iTunes mp3s (think they're atleast 256 Kbps, maybe 320. not sure). For TV, it'll be tata sky HD for cable channels and ps3 for blurays and DVDs.
• Not an expert in hifi terminoligies here, but I think my preference would be speakers which aren't too bright. High frequency treble does something weird to my eardrums even at moderately high volume.
• Avr requirements would be as many hdmi inputs as possible (minimum 4, preferably 5+) and good enough to drive whatever bookshelves I choose. Built in airplay is preferred for ease of use but not totally required as I'll be getting an Apple TV anyways.
• No intentions of buying 2.0+avr for now and then adding more later. Much more comfortable with one time purchase. If going by the "add later" route, I'll just end up using the 2.0 setup.

Currently considering wharfedale 10.2 setup (like this one ). Or something similar with KEF Q300 series. Haven't auditioned anything but will be making a trip to Bass n treble (M G road) in a day or two and check out whatever they can provide me. Any other bookshelf I should be looking into? Don't want to demo too many setups as all it'll do is confuse me even more. Also, am too busy on the weekdays (someone's gotta work to pay for all this!) to go and check out everything available in my budget and most speaker shops are closed on Sundays (my only day off). So would like to keep the audition trips to minimum. Also don't have much time left to finalise the speakers as I need to get the design of cabinet below the TV finished yesterday already. Don't want to do that before I choose my speakers though.

Here's a few pics to give you guys a better idea of my new room...

For general bed viewing/listening..

For movies/blu ray viewings...
I intend to pull the recliners in front of the bed for such occasions..

Pics of the room in its current condition.
(The door on the right is now half in width as I've replaced it with twin door design which will leave me a few more inches to spare there)

A typical mistake people commit in "trying to get the maximum screen size" is fill the wall with screen - end to end. You should not do that. Assuming that your screen will be on 16' wall, I recommend a screen with a 16:9 size of 12' x 6.75' (or 12x9 in 4:3) size. Such as screen will result in diagonal size 165"+ (12' x 6.75' in 16:9 format) or 156" (12' x 5' in 2.4:1). This is more than sufficient. This allows you to have the system as per your liking, viz., floor standers, et al.

Since your preference is not towards "bright" speakers, the Wharfedale package that you have choosen is good but your room is sufficiently big to justify the Diamond 10.7 package.

 

[nSinghal]

A typical mistake people commit in "trying to get the maximum screen size" is fill the wall with screen - end to end. You should not do that. Assuming that your screen will be on 16' wall, I recommend a screen with a 16:9 size of 12' x 6.75' (or 12x9 in 4:3) size. Such as screen will result in diagonal size 165"+ (12' x 6.75' in 16:9 format) or 156" (12' x 5' in 2.4:1). This is more than sufficient. This allows you to have the system as per your liking, viz., floor standers, et al.

Not a mistake let alone it be a typical one. First of all, I still can get a smaller screen if I wish to (dealer is fine with it) so feel free to tell me how get the FS in my room with its limitations.

Heres why I went with 133". Because of the dressing room door (built and finished a year before I even knew that you dont need to be a ambani to get a PJ in your room) there's no space on the front wall to fit anything bigger than 106" screen if you want to place Floor standers on the side. Ceiling POP was also done months ago and this being a bedroom instead of a dedicated HT room, ceiling mounting the PJ just wasn't a practical solution without totally destroying the POP (and in turn, the room's) look and aesthetics. Only place left is the back wall which at 25' away would have barely allowed the PJ to project 120" minimum (check tw8100 throw distances). So, with no chance of getting a screen which allows for FS in the situation, I went with 133" as even 120" might not have been possible if I placed the PJ in a shelf made inside the wall (for even better aesthetics). I had two places for speaker placement in my mind. Either BS below the screen OR FS placed along the side walls, just ahead of the two doors. Now at that place, the speakers would have looked out of place and probably won't even sound great coz of such closeness to the wall. And my 7yr old and his cousin would have knocked them down on the floor atleast once a week! Hence the final decision of BS below the screen. So, I'd like to respectfully disagree with you that 133" was a mistake, or a typical one at that

Since your preference is not towards "bright" speakers, the Wharfedale package that you have choosen is good but your room is sufficiently big to justify the Diamond 10.7 package.

Yes, I realize that but considering the fact that its not a dedicated HT room, some compromises have to be made. Hence the book shelves instead of FS. And like I said, I'm not really an audiophile. Just want to get the best I can for my money. Currently using the PJ and the screen in my old room with TV speakers (54" Sony RPTV). The speakers are below the TV screen (like this one) so practically the same height I'll be keeping the BS in my new room. And I don't even mind the crappy sound which they put out. So anything out there will be a huge upgrade for me

Now on to the main point, Other than wharfedale 10.2 and KEF Q300, which other bookshelves I should be looking for? And the avr, is denon 1713 good enough for these speakers?

 

[nSinghal]

A typical mistake people commit in "trying to get the maximum screen size" is fill the wall with screen - end to end. You should not do that. Assuming that your screen will be on 16' wall, I recommend a screen with a 16:9 size of 12' x 6.75' (or 12x9 in 4:3) size. Such as screen will result in diagonal size 165"+ (12' x 6.75' in 16:9 format) or 156" (12' x 5' in 2.4:1). This is more than sufficient. This allows you to have the system as per your liking, viz., floor standers, et al.

Wait, just realised that you're actually recommending an even bigger screen than I have already. I went with a 133". How will getting 156" or 165" help me put FS on the sides?????

Edit: looks like you didnt take into account the main door on the left and balcony door on the right. Also the dressing room door on the front wall. Cant place the speakers there coz I do need to leave some space so I can open the doors to get in and out of the room

 

[just4kix]

Wait, just realised that you're actually recommending an even bigger screen than I have already. I went with a 133". How will getting 156" or 165" help me put FS on the sides?????

Edit: looks like you didnt take into account the main door on the left and balcony door on the right. Also the dressing room door on the front wall. Cant place the speakers there coz I do need to leave some space so I can open the doors to get in and out of the room

I am replying from office where images are blocked. Hence I could not see your pics.

 

[avidyarthy]

Check out the Epos BS series. It might juusst exceed your budget though, in the overall costing. That speaker's great for movies as well as music.

 

[nSinghal]

I am replying from office where images are blocked. Hence I could not see your pics.

Ahh. That makes sense. Anyways, another thing to realize is that this is after all a bedroom and not a HT room in the basement. Neighbours are going to kill me if I turn up the FS at night.

 

[nSinghal]

Check out the Epos BS series. It might juusst exceed your budget though, in the overall costing. That speaker's great for movies as well as music.

Thanks. Any specific model?

 

[just4kix]

Not really. The AVR has a "midnight cinema" mode where surround sound levels are reduced and center channel (dialogues) level increased.

 

[nSinghal]

Not really. The AVR has a "midnight cinema" mode where surround sound levels are reduced and center channel (dialogues) level increased.

That's good to know. Still I'm sure ill end up not utilising the extra power FS can provide for 99% of the time. I'll be more sure about that once I get the demo of Q300 (hopefully tomm). The only sort of audition I've had so far was of polk FS with denon avr when I got the demo of the PJ. Not sure about the exact models but it was a Rs 95k system (spk+avr) so I'm assuming it was tsi400 with denon 1713 at best. Demo room was much smaller (appx 12'x16') than my own room but still it was way too louder than what I ever imagine myself listening too. So BS should be more than enough for me. Will be more clear about this once I get the demo tomm

More than loudness, I want clarity of sound (especially dialogs) at low volumes. That's the only reason I'm willing to spend this much money (as little as it maybe in the world of hifi, its still a lot for me) on sound.

 

[just4kix]

That's good to know. Still I'm sure ill end up not utilising the extra power FS can provide for 99% of the time. I'll be more sure about that once I get the demo of Q300 (hopefully tomm). The only sort of audition I've had so far was of polk FS with denon avr when I got the demo of the PJ. Not sure about the exact models but it was a Rs 95k system (spk+avr) so I'm assuming it was tsi400 with denon 1713 at best. Demo room was much smaller (appx 12'x16') than my own room but still it was way too louder than what I ever imagine myself listening too. So BS should be more than enough for me. Will be more clear about this once I get the demo tomm

More than loudness, I want clarity of sound (especially dialogs) at low volumes. That's the only reason I'm willing to spend this much money (as little as it maybe in the world of hifi, its still a lot for me) on sound.

Loudness of speakers depends upon the sensitivity mainly. BS's can deliver as much as FS's and sometimes even more as was proved during the recent Mumbai HFV meet.

Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2

 

[just4kix]

After looking at the pictures, I realize that I had been very stupid in my earlier reply or call it a blind man describing the elephant.

However, I would like to propose another suggestion and you see whether that appeals you ...

There are motorized ceiling recessed screens available. You can place this screen hidden in the ceiling some 18" in front of the wall just ahead of the false ceiling spot lights. The distance in front will allow large screen. The speakers, whether FS or BS can be behind the screen. The three side doors could be sliding type that will allow unhindered operation. The ceiling recessed screen will not be cheap - could be as high as 40k.

 

[nSinghal]

After looking at the pictures, I realize that I had been very stupid in my earlier reply or call it a blind man describing the elephant.

However, I would like to propose another suggestion and you see whether that appeals you ...

There are motorized ceiling recessed screens available. You can place this screen hidden in the ceiling some 18" in front of the wall just ahead of the false ceiling spot lights. The distance in front will allow large screen. The speakers, whether FS or BS can be behind the screen. The three side doors could be sliding type that will allow unhindered operation. The ceiling recessed screen will not be cheap - could be as high as 40k.

I've already made plans to conceal the screen in a wood pelmet so it'll be hidden until I roll it down. I actually did consider the exact same place (ahead of the lights) to ceiling recess the screen but then found out the POP ceiling can not handle the weight of the screen. The screen needs wood or brick wall to attach itself. Even if I managed to somehow get it in there, the POP would have fell apart as soon as I made the 1" thick hole for the screen to roll down from. The pelmet is working out nicely so not gonna miss the simplicity and clean looks of ceiling recessed screen.

Rest of your suggestions too are going to prove time consuming and expensive. Wish I knew about the PJ possibility in the room before the construction of the room began....

But no worries. After today's audition of the kef and wharfe BS (@Bass n treble), I'm more than fine with their sound. A nice pair of FS would have been definitely nicer but BS will do the job as well.

Now about the audition, my fears turned out to be true. Listened to KEF Q300, wharfe 10.1 and MA MR2. While I realised all three sounded different, I have no idea which one was better. I can't figure out what's supposed to be better and what's not

10.2 was not available so first I tried 10.1 (Rs 16.5k) with no subwoofer or surrounds/center attached. First impression even before it was plugged in, it looked gorgeous! Avr was denon 1513. Source was a CD (forgot the song) playing on some marantz DVD player. It sounded great. Like I had expected, I'd have been impressed with any good speakers out there coz of my experience with run of the mill TV speakers only. Next, connected my ipad with the 3.5mm jack and played the iTunes mp3s. Not really impressed with the quality. Sounded more or less the same as my tv speakers. Will there be noticeable improvement in mp3 playback if the AVR was playing playing them natively? Or with airplay? Or that's the best I can expect from iTunes mp3s? Really wished I didn't need physical media anymore for music atleast. iTunes is so much more convenient than CDs.

Moving on, next polk 110 sub was added and that really messed it up. Didn't like it one bit. Any recommendations for subwoofers will be really helpful here. Something which doesn't cost a bomb preferably. Polk was about 15k. Don't wish to spend more than 20k on the sub. The less, the better. One more question. If I have 5.1 setup and want to listen to music, can (or does) the AVR simply turn off the Center, surrounds and especially the sub? Not sure why it wouldnt/couldnt but just wanted to confirm this as I've seen a lot of FMs starting with 5.1 and then convert to 2.0 only setup. What harm would the extra speakers lying there would do?

Next I tried MA MR2 (Rs 15.8k). Not really sure if I found it better or worse than 10.2. Not even sure what was different (yes, I am an idiot when it comes to judging audio). Looked ugly. That's the only impression of those I'm certain of

Last I tried Q300 (Rs 30k). These certainly sounded different than the previous two. Once again, not sure if for the better or worse. Since FMs had mentioned that these are supposed to be bright speakers, all my focus (unintentionally) was on if I hated the highs. Didn't really. But as I said, couldn't really decide if I liked it better than 10.1. Maybe just a tiny little bit more but nothing drastic enough to make worth the extra compared to both 10.1 and 10.2. I guess the 1513 isn't really the best avr to go with q300. Maybe if I get the 1713, the difference between 10.1 and Q300 will be a bit more easily noticeable. An amp would definitely do it if not 1713 but that's a different story altogether. Need something for both movies and music so 1713 is the best I can get for myself here. As far as looks are concerned, the Q300 was pretty average. Not as good as 10.1 but not totally ugly either.

Anyways, long story short, I AM AN IDIOT when it comes to judging sound quality. Please someone help me choose the best speaker for my budget. Don't want to spend all this money only to realise a month later that I don't like the sound of the speakers I chose (probably based on its looks)